Is anyone else concerned about the potential state of mages with the upcoming mage rework?

Laraso·5/2/2016, 6:55:53 AM·76 votes·5,425 views

So I was reviewing the PBE changes for the upcoming mid-season update to mages, and I noticed that base damage and ratios were nerfed almost universally across the board, just nerfs nerfs nerfs everywhere as far as damage is concerned.

Lower base damages and lower ratios, combined with items that give lower AP, and the removal of mana regen, really makes me concerned about the future state of mages. Does anyone have experience with the PBE who can vouch otherwise?

193 Comments

Šeraρh5/2/2016, 1:52:15 PM46 votes

Seeing the 6.9 mages new kits ( except for gutted Anivia and Broken Syndra ) has kinda reedeemed the MYMU for me. They are overall more interesting, with more defined gameplay fantaisies, and what they seem to have lost in AP ratios, they were made up for in other places. Malzahar's AP ratios for exemple were lowered across the board, because Voidlings reliably deal metric tons of damage now. Brand's AP ratios were reduced because his passive has been made that much stronger. Zyra's Q and plant damage AP ratio has been nerfed because you're now pretty much guaranteed to have much more plants fighting by your side ( although I feel like giving back some plant power could still be a good thing ). Annie's Summon Tibbers damage went down because Tibbers himself is now 500% more deadly.

What makes me kinda salty about the MYMU though is that there's nothing really interesting about the new AP itemisation.

Marksmen were both given tools to patch up their weaknesses and to exacerbate their strengths. They've got to have different iterations of basically the same item with different passives to enhance different playstyles ( Hurricane / Phantom Dancer / Shiv / Firecannon anyone ? ) when mages are left with itemization that yes, exacerbates their strengths, but also exacerbates their weakness rather than blurring it. Mage buildpath is going to be made more stale than ever. Every single mana-hungry mage is going to absolutely NEED tear. Morellomonicon is now the only decent AP+Cdr Item and is now gonna be core on every single mage but a few outliers ( and really, I think 6.9 was THE BEST opportunity we had to introduce "different types of Morellomonicon" for when grevious wounds isn't needed like what they did in Black Market Brawlers. I seriously think that having the option to chosse between a Morello with Pox Arcana's active for mana regen / Netherstride's passive for kiting / Grevious Wounds to counter sustain would be a fantastic idea ).

And don't even get me started on the Hextech items because, the "hextech 900" thing is only gonna be used as a deathfire grasp wannabe for increased burst because the slow is so bad, and protobelt isn't gonna be that useful for most "true mages" yet risks being hella obnoxious on Leblanc, Ekko, Ahri and the likes, who'll be able to abuse both the reposition tool and the rather good damage on the active while being able to do with a lower AP item. Mind you, If there's one thing we Mage Mains never asked for was mobility. Part of the mage fantasy is being a slow moving glass cannon, bringing fear to whoever enters our zone of influence.

We wanted seekers to be as effective against AD midlaners than hexdrinker is against AP, but I guess that'll never be the case.

We wanted to be able to build armor + AP without resorting to the obligatory Zonhyas whose active isn't always useful ( adcs don't care 'bout your Zonhya, really, they'll have an aa ready for you after your stasis anyway ), and now that the AP has been lowered on the item and the active CD increased, that holds even more true.

Some of us wanted to have option for health sustain so we do not have to back late game and leave our team vulnerable when adcs can just clear a jungle camp and be full and tanks can just wait for a minut or two for health regen to bring them back to full, but I guess now we're gonna have to back for both health and mana.

We wanted diversity and cool impactful passives, yet we only got stale damage actives and a way to get a hundred mana back in exchange for our live.

Like really ? I've come to accept that Riot wants mana regen gutted, but really, at least they could make it more fun while it lasts !

As of now, if we want to have it all, we can just go and play Mr Unfun Graves and have more waveclear, more burst, more dps, more mobility, more sustain, be tankier and possibly infinite mana while still having some kind of utility ( freakin smoke ). People gonna argue that we'll miss the hard cc's, but whatever, y'all just gonna have to count on the support to peel that fed Master Yi off your ass.

LankPants5/2/2016, 7:27:48 AM24 votes

Protobelt on AP assassins is utterly retarded. I have no idea what was going through Riot's heads when they designed this, but it makes assassins like LB and Diana unmanageable, as well as being super powerful on things like tank Ekko and tank Fizz.

Basically this item needs to not exist.

AtheosisX5/2/2016, 11:40:03 AM15 votes

Concerned? Nah. Concerned would imply I only suspect mages are going to be trash after the update. Resigned is the word I would use. It's League of Assassins now.

GigglesO5/2/2016, 10:01:01 AM13 votes

You missed the part where they were lowering magic resistance.

Smitemuffin5/2/2016, 3:04:10 PM8 votes

Yep. 100% agree. Riot is forcing Mages into "sustained DPS" like Marksmen and forcing them to hear all the disadvantages like delayed item spikes, but with none of the benefits like sustain, mana-independence or crit-tier damage.

They're being pigeonholed into an inferior marksman sub-class

ennear5/2/2016, 7:41:31 AM8 votes

It feels so bad that while the juggernaut and ADC updates gave their respective classes time in the OP spotlight (and some arguably still are). The mages are obviously getting nerfed for fancy toys that probably are only gonna work by being abused by specific champs. while the average total AP is dropping by like 20% and mana regen getting cut for flat mana and convoluted passives that simply could've said "increase max mana by 15%" and "gain 15% of your hp as mana and 20% of your mana as hp"

Annoxis5/2/2016, 9:18:48 AM5 votes

At the same time, Cooldown Reduction was made more available, it will be be a lot more easier to reach the cap without the use of blue/runes.

warpenguin5555/2/2016, 1:57:13 PM5 votes

Yeah the items look awful and the mage reworks are gonna have to be Hella busted to be relevant. Juggernauts and adcs were given straight buffs bur mages are getting nerfed. Meanwhile Zeds already strong. Can't wait to see the upcoming Zed meta.

M0b1us5/2/2016, 4:44:10 PM4 votes

From my experience, all but 2 of every mage NOT included in the MYMU feels obscenely bad. Swain and Ryze are the two exceptions. Out of all the MYMU, Malz seems to be the best with everyone else being ok at best.

The massive drop in stats for the majority of current items is going to make AP mages damage unreliable with a few select exceptions. Complete lack of mana regen is going to make blue buff a huge must have for mages if they don't want to recall after every single fight and make the water dragon the most necessary buff in the game.

Overall, you will probably see a good number of mages once the update goes live, but then people will start realizing how bad they are and how pathetic the items are and only start using 3-4 mages. My prediction is that Malz, Annie, Diana, and Swain will be very strong, but everyone else will suffer. Malz will be strong simply because he is more reliable now and never really had an issue with mana sustain. Diana really doesn't rely on mana or mana regen that much and benefits more from items that were not changed like Nashors and runic/ludens echo. Swain is the perfect match for the new RoA which will make his lane phase incredibly strong once he hits 6.

My advice, start getting good with an AD mid. They will have everything that an AP has but not be so heavily gated by the lack of stats.

Rivini5/3/2016, 2:16:50 AM4 votes

I've said it before, but Riot just doesn't like mages in their game anymore. Riot wants the game to be nonstop action, which mages aren't the class to accomplish that.

The mid-year update is merely to get mage mains to quit whining about being ignored and AurelionSol was released because people wouldn't shut up about Ao Shin. Azir was the last mage released prior (who happens to be very right-clicky...), with three (3) marks(wo)men released in between them. Three of them!

It's why mages aren't getting nearly as much love as marks(wo)men received when they were updated. The new Hextech items are even somewhat viable for many AD champions to use, especially Protobelt. What AD items were made semi-viable for mages to use? Case in point.

The majority of mages/AP champions only inflict damage via spells. Sounds reasonable, until you realize every AD champion inflicts damage via right-clicking and spells, and many AD champions have powerful spells often on par with mages.

What purpose do mages have, again?

Oh, right, gotta mix up those damage types...

KogMaw Corki Shaco Shyvana Varus

Never mind.

Here's another point: how is it fair that mages are restricted with cooldowns and mana especially in the early game, while AD champions have no restrictions whatsoever? Mages must purchase items to bypass their glaring weaknesses before actually strengthening themselves and becoming effective, while AD champions are able to begin amplifying their strengths from the start due to lacking real weaknesses to cover. Even if you were to argue they did have any real weakness at all, they have a plethora of items to remedy it, including multiple means of sustain.

Yes, that lovely sustain that keeps AD champions on the field longer. Right-click or use spells, Riot has you covered.

What about mages? Nope, spell vamp is "unhealthy" for the game.

item 3812 item 3146

Very unhealthy for the game...

No seriously, what the heck is with this? Why do AD champions still get spell vamp while AP champions don't? Why is it acceptable and "healthy" for them to have it? Not only that, but the sustain applies to their spells as well as basic attacks. At least for AP champions, the sustain from item 3152 only applied to spells.

{massive facepalm}

Well anyway, all that matters anymore to Riot is the precious LCS. To make the LCS fun to watch, they value showcasing the consistent action AD champions bring with their combination of spells and right-clicking much more than the cooldown-based gameplay of mages. That's the simple, sad truth. The only AP champions who are allowed to be picked in the LCS without being beaten by the nerf bat after are the hyper-mobile assassins, Ahri for the sex appeal to draw in the hormonal boys, Annie because fire effects and giant teddy bear to wow the audience, and Orianna for some reason. Wait... Orianna's passive... {gasp} should've realized her right-click power would continue receiving Riot's respect.