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Dear Riot Live Devs

Samael11·4/9/2018, 3:16:35 PM·1 votes·399 views

I realize you probably thought about it some, and there have probably been a lot of other threads stating the same, as of recent, and I understand the reasoning behind most of the decision...

But as a Silver-Gold support main, I am forced to ask, do you understand what you did to the game at Bronze and Silver with the switch to all the gold being on the canon minion? (I offer a few solutions toward the bottom to if you've seen enough complaint threads and you just gloss over the content)

I have watched plenty of ADC struggle to last hit any minion, let alone one specific minion worth 3-7 times the others. Which would be fine for purposes of skill-separating MMR and rank, in a theoretical bubble.
But that lane now has 2 people even further behind, all based on 1 persons inability to last hit minions.

But more importantly, Support items.
After all the recent nerfs to relic shield, this is the most egregious. In low solo queue, almost no ADC respects Relic Shield, you can be pacing around a canon that is on the verge of being farmed, and all of a sudden, your lane partner wastes a big skill on it to take the farm, rather than share it properly. Previously to this patch, it wasn't a huge issue, canon was only roughly worth 1.5-2 melee minions. This patch, it takes a minimum of 3 melee minions to catch up to missing just one canon, which is tough to do until you upgrade the relic shield and thanks to scaling becomes more difficult the later the game progresses, which cascades how far behind a supports items are.

But even more than that, though related, the impact this has on vision is FUCKING HUGE. On the current patch, without even trying, the medallion upgrades by 12-13m at the latest, 10-11m on average, 8-9m if you're crushing lane and getting lucky RNG. With basic effort, Spellthief's upgrades somewhere around 13-14m, with 11-12 being shortest and 16 being longest I've seen, IIRC. Both of these items reward you for not last hitting minions. The Relic Shield on the other hand, in silver solo queue, with it's currently kind of shit stats (Thanks Top)... if you can get it to upgrade pre 15m, you are doing phenomenally. I think 16-17 is my current average, and 19 is my current longest.
This patch added probably 3m to my average Relic Shield completion times compared to the previous patch, without affecting the other vision items. (For those about to comment like a wiseass on my skill level at upgrading Relic Shield, I refer you to the previous paragraph, 3rd sentence)

This indicates, in a best case scenario, a support with relic shield is completing his vision quest at roughly the same time as their lane opponent, with any non-shield support item, whom they are dumpstering with an ADC that knows how to share farm. In the worst case, you are looking at a 10+ minute differential between supports being able to provide vision for their team, one of their most important jobs. And this 10m differential can happen even if the support with Relic Shield is crushing lane, while the enemy support turtles behind the tower.

Yes those are more extreme cases, with the averages being 3-4 minute differentials in quest completion, but that 3-4 minutes is big as well. That is at least one cycle of 3+1 wards being placed before the Relic Shield support even gets his +1 from completion, even if he is winning.

As for solutions... honestly, there could be a number of them, though I don't know about their viability, or how they would reward mechanical skill over just being passively amazing, but here's a few to spit-ball that aren't just reverting minion gold values.

--Revert, or partially revert, minion gold values. -- (I said "Not just" :P)

Either making base values worth more, or taking some of the scaling away from the canon and giving it back to the melee minions would help immensely.

--Lower Quest threshold on Relic Shield by 100 gp--

This is a band-aid for the vision aspect, nothing more. It's simple, it's quick and it helps prevent further bleeding or infection, but does nothing to cure an already present ailment.
It should go a long way to normalizing average quest completion, but it doesn't seem fun or satisfying.

--Allow the Relic Shield to have a passive, where, if a Canon minion dies near the bearer, to a teammate, while they have a charge available, the charge is consumed, the gold is shared, but no healing triggers.--

This seems like a satisfying solution at first glance. It rewards mechanical team play the most if the support gets the canon mini, doesn't punish the support if the ADC gets greedy with the canon, but comes at a punishable cost if the Support has no charges, or the ADC really needs the health boost.
It also doesn't punish a shield bearer as the game gets later and everyone is 1-shotting minion waves before the support can even finish their animations. Nor does it reward Top-laners, since there is no one around to split farm with, outside of the occasional gank and lane tax. The only issue is that it also rewards more passive play on the part of the support, but considering how much medallion rewards fully passive play, and spellthiefs rewards long range harassment, I think this is a fair trade. The more I consider it, The more I like this solution.

--Change the mechanic on Relic Shield all together to reward some other facet of lane play that isn't farming minions.--

Perhaps making each charge of the Relic shield be worth a 15 (20, 25 upgraded) hp shield that also gives double the amount of gold when an enemy hits the relic shield bearer. You'd also need to make it trigger only when hit by an enemy champion and only when near a teammate so the solo lanes don't ruin it for supports (again). This rewards playmaking supports who go in and sacrifice themselves for their carries, while taking away from the ADC lane sustaiin, and encouraging more early action. It may even see supports prompting good pre- 1:30 invade calls. I actually just came up with it, and I like this idea a lot too. Though it will probably punish over-aggressive, underskilled supports, and their lane partners & team, a ton.

Regardless, I hope you guys can get around to fixing this properly ASAP, because while I really disliked the Relic Shield before, it is in a terrible place now, and listening to people bitch when you don't take it, and steal your farm when you do, is enervating.

Thanks for listening, I hope.

2 Comments

C9 Squeeky 4/9/2018, 4:00:47 PM1 votes

Something they could try is reverting/buffing the GP10 on relic shield line but make it slow/pause when they kill a minion (like how tribute is on lockout on spellthief line when you kill a minion/non-epic monster). That way you'll still have GP10 even if you miss (or ADC takes) cannons.

edit: I like your idea of adding HP per minion kill, like item 3052 .

Samael114/12/2018, 8:40:52 PM1 votes

That defeats the design of Relic shield.

Currently it is supposed to reward you and the adc for executing minions, and the illusion of team play. To have rewards on passive play and active play is counter intuitive and is unsatisfying for how the item is designed to be played (even if that design gets increasingly questionable).

I also think you misunderstood my suggestion. It wouldn't be permanent max hp gain, or a heal, though similar... It would be more like a throwback to the original Targon's quest line, or Bloodthirster or Karma's shield, where it gives temporary health the first time you take daage. Every time Targon's generates a charge for itself, it is now a shield that triggers when you take damage from a champion. Engage with only 1 charge in the early game, that's only 15 damage stopped, engage with 3 charges after upgrading once, 60 damage stopped. Late game, with all 4 charges, 100 stopped. I'd probably change the gp generation to a flat 25 per charge though. To rewarding to upgrade ASAP otherwise.

Giving max hp per minion execute is nice, but it rewards top/jungle, and only exacerbates the problem f supports needing to counterplay ADCs.