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Why is surrender in this game?

Kuma No Neko·3/30/2015, 2:46:40 AM·2 votes·981 views

In general, surrender is a dumb mechanic for people who get salty and say "oh well we're one kill behind time to give up i hate everyone on my team!!! bronze hell!!!" because I've come back from games so often, I even won a game where our nexus was at 14 HP and we didn't have a single inhibitor

And I've lost games where we've been very close to winning, the only time I can see a surrender being valid is if someone is afk or never joined but the solution to that which god forbid you learn something from 'dota' is you get that afk persons gold income split among the other 4 players, and you can control them and sell their items which will also be split among 4 people, and in dota this happens after 5 minutes of afk, how long league wants to wait is up to them

Personal funny story that brought this up, was winning a game, had 4 towers, we only lost one and we had better carries and a better team in general, and to my knowledge everyone on our team was ahead in items

but everyone got upset sion was dying a lot so we surrendered, me being the only one to say no obviously

18 Comments

Krully3/30/2015, 2:53:39 AM5 votes

Because turtling from 20 minutes in is shit and not fun?

Angry Monster3/30/2015, 3:13:20 AM4 votes

cause when you get higher in skill; you actually understand when games are not winnable?

bad arcade kitty3/30/2015, 3:00:58 AM2 votes

an afker isn't a valid reason to surrender, i won and lose so many 4v5 and 5v4 respectively just day or two ago i won when i myself was afk for the first 18-20 minutes (not really my fault, i thought i dodged), ten minutes after i joined the gold advantage went to our team, i ended as 5/4/16 and even got honored by the enemy... that game was mostly carried by our reksai though but still

danmarge3/30/2015, 3:11:57 AM1 votes

While I will agree that sometimes the surrender vote is abused and things like this happen. That's why it requires 80% of the team to agree. You being 1 out of 5 on a team were the only person to not agree making you the sizable minority. This would be a more valid argument if it were decidable by simple majority. There are definitely games where I would say that the odds of your or the enemy team winning are at probably 1% or less, when you're just getting stomped (this is what makes the ff option a must imo).

But there are games in the grey area where the odds of winning are anywhere from 5-30%, that the losing team still ff's. While you may come back in said 5-30% of those games, that's still the minority. In these games some players are probably taking into consideration 2 things. A) the time wasted in slowly completing a game that's already perceived lost or probably lost and B) the lack of fun 4/5 players are having continuing said game (where another game that they could be playing if they ff this game will be fun). At the end of the day this is a game, and a large percentage of the community plays for fun and the others play more competitively to rank up. Point A applies to the people who are playing competitively and to rank up while point B applies more to the players playing for fun (both apply to players in the middle).

So while you may win those games some of the time these players may not be ffing just because they know its lost, but because they do not want to play that game anymore. I agree that as the 20% this maybe irritating for 80% of the people on you're team it's a relief.

disregardable3/30/2015, 3:02:27 AM1 votes

I just played a ranked game with Blitzcrank. My team was so horrible that I thought it was in normals. Like we're talking jungle zed and sivir with no health try to take dragon when the enemy bot lane is right there. Then, after respawning, the Sivir goes back into the jungle (instead of her lane with all of her farm) and tries to take Zed jg's blue. Their Caitlyn shows up from finishing dragon, and instead of just going to lane Sivir sits there and tanks the blue. And then, when she respawns again, she goes mid.

She didn't go bot the rest of the game. Even though both turrets were up and the farm was free.

All 4 of their carries had over 12 kills. I thought Sivir was under level 30.

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1776672997/218533396?tab=overview

And they didn't forfeit.

Sinister Snail3/30/2015, 5:12:41 AM1 votes

I'd rather just ff a normal game I'm 90% certain to lose at 20-40min, and start a new one fresh, than drag it out to 40-60min. Win or lose, that shit's exhausting.

Ranked, though, I'll play 100% my best until a nexus explodes.

GoldenMean3/30/2015, 1:01:16 PM1 votes

a winning team could troll you really badly if there was no surrender button

SLangedEdge3/30/2015, 8:02:07 PM1 votes

surrender is a love hate relationship. There are many games you wish you had it and many games you wished your team didn't spam it. LoL really has to fix how they deal with dc and afk'ers and not depend on a surrender feature. If a champ doesn't connect or afk's within the first 5min or before first blood, game shouldn't count for teh rest of the ppl. The offender is punished alone (or punish the whole stack). If you afk dc at any other time, stack should get punished and the other ppl are allowed to leave whenever they feel like (tho they will still take the loss, same as surrender without being forced to vote).

Now the surrender option, i believe should exist...there are times you just can't win without a lot of help from the other team, but i dont think it should be gated by a time limit. LoL is a numbers game, if you're far enough behind in net worth and position (towers/inhibs) game becoems increasingly hard. So there should be some algorithm that calculates how far behind you are and how much time is left until everyone hits 6 slot and based on some threshold you will open the surrender option.

DreadPirateChris3/30/2015, 3:19:47 AM1 votes

Surrender exists because if a team is up 30 kills to 2, has all the towers down, five dragons, and baron... they might not finish the game. They might think it's fun to keep killing your team on respawn instead. They -shouldn't- do this. If you fool around long enough the enemy team gets to reach max level max build too and then your 'lead' suddenly doesn't mean much. I've been in comeback victories in never-surrender teams in pretty terrible positions. (Not this season though... the new Baron and Dragon buffs do give the strong team a powerful lead that can't be scaled out just by turtling.) Any sane team should stop the bully antics and win the game before you reach max build/max level though. There'll -usually- be a 'win before we throw' push before a comeback is actually possible even in the most bully of teams. And of course if they actually take all the inhibs, even if they ignore the nexus the super minions will win the game for them sooner or later.

Also of course, you might be 4v5 or 3v5 if you have a disconnect or two. Of course, 4v5 games -are- winnable, just very difficult and often not very fun. If you get very far behind in a 4v5, it becomes nearly impossible to come back. They have more people so can easily answer split-push with a 2v1, they have more people so have an inherent advantage in teamfights, etc.

Anyway, surrender exists basically so that you don't have to keep getting stomped on when the outcome is (nearly) inevitable. People do surrender -way- to easily in many cases, but if you've ever been on the wrong side of a 30-2 stomp with the enemy team ignoring your nexus in favor of killing you on respawn (maybe even in your fountain if they have good poke), well, that's why surrender exists.