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Has Riot forgotten about Quinn?

SentineIs·9/3/2015, 7:48:58 AM·39 votes·8,227 views

I really enjoy Quinn, I like her design and playstyle. But some things I've been noticing is that she has some glaring flaws and is very hazy in her identity. Riot is all about how identity is important for a champion, but when most of the community can't decide if she is a horrible adc, a undesirable top lane bully, or a anti-assassin mid laner I think that's a problem that needs to be addressed. I feel like Riot has just forgotten about her, even though I know they haven't because they give her skins here and there. I feel like they are just ignoring her because no one plays her often.

I don't care if Quinn never becomes top tier, but when your flamed every game for playing a champion in any role, I think there needs to be a clarification of the champions identity and some attention, no matter how minor, to their kit. Most of the changes to Quinn have been bug fixes, and don't address her identity problems.

Quinn doesn't fit as an ADC because she has shorter range then vayne, an unreliable steroid, and an ult that puts her into melee range

Quinn doesn't fit as an assassin because she has no real way of escaping a fight after getting a kill if she does get one. Her ult speed falls off if hit even once so she cant stick well enough to use her atk speed, and since her engage tool and escape tool is her E and R, once those are used its impossible to get out unless they ignore you.

Top lane you deprive your team of a tank, and you don't offer as much carry potential as other squishy top laners like Fiora, and mid lane you suffer the assassin identity problems.

I just feel that riot should clarify her identity, and tune her kit accordingly. I really want to know if Riot is even thinking about Quinn, and I will consider this thread a success if I can get a small confirmation that some fixes to Quinn are even being considered.

63 Comments

RiotRiotRepertoir9/4/2015, 9:01:53 AM19 votes

We haven't forgotten about Quinn. I spent several hours of my day doing some stuff for her today. Hopefully we'll have more info to share in the near future.

omkeyu9/3/2015, 9:52:38 AM10 votes

IMO the key change Quinn needs is to have a more reliable passive. Whether its a shorter cooldown, has a longer acquisition range, will only target enemy champs or Monsters, etc.

As a similar comparison, new Fiora's passive feels amazing to use. Quinn passive feels terrible.

BottleCapster9/3/2015, 4:18:03 PM9 votes

Didn't RiotRepertoir just talk a little while ago that he picked up Quinn as a project and that he was going to try and work on her? Kind of like how they talked about making more impactful changes to MF in the following patches, Its not likely we'll see either of these lovely ladies get their due in the next patch or two, since everything right now is going to make sure worlds goes off without a hitch, but I'd stay hopeful.

SentineIs9/3/2015, 8:21:45 AM6 votes

A new ult is asking for too much. Her ult is basically part of what little identity she has. I do agree she needs a new ult if they want her identity to be an adc. She is really good at picking off stray targets, but the moment there is more then one it becomes a lot more difficult. An assassin can instantly delete someone when fed and get out. I.E Blanc, Zed, Talon etc. Quinn can kind of instantly delete someone when fed (more consistent damage tho) but has no way of getting out unless she saved her E and somehow stuck on her target or she has a flash.

Even when she is fed she is only really useful in duels, and her short range makes her an ideal target to being cced.

I just want Riot to actually look at her, instead of ignoring her. Do they think she's in a good place rn? I've almost never seen them even mention her.

Battlecast Valor9/4/2015, 6:12:54 PM5 votes

As a passionate Quinn main, it always brightens my day when Riot even references a bug they're addressing related to her. It also makes me glad to see Repertoire potentially testing some changes!

From my experience she really isn't that bad of an ADC as long as you have a good hard engage support like Leona to bully with and she's very snowbally. However, she can fall behind really easily and kinda becomes useless lategame if you don't have the right comp. She's probably best at splitpushing and getting 1v1 picks, which I think is appropriate for her character and identity as a scout/ranger. I also think her ult is very useful in many situations and isn't that bad overall, but it would be nice if Valor could have some kind of defensive buff or something so that you don't get 1 shot as soon as you go into melee range to fight someone. Perhaps tweaking her passive a bit to be more reliable wouldn't be a bad idea, either, especially the really annoying interaction of having someone get marked halfway through an aa... Making her aa animation a bit smoother, too, wouldn't hurt either, since it's so easy to accidentally cancel.

Overall, everything that's already been said basically addresses my concerns. She's not really in that bad of a spot, she just requires a different playstyle than most other adcs and fills a very unique niche role that takes some getting used to on top of some annoying bugs/interactions.

NoMonku9/3/2015, 8:16:29 AM5 votes

She has an "identity" it just isn't that clear. She is a good top lane bully, the problem is that she doesn't transition well into teamfights, being better at skirmishing or assassinating priority targets. She has a small niche, but because tanks are so valued atm, she isn't picked often because there are champions who can lane bully like she does but have more impact late game and in teamfights.

Daedalus8719/3/2015, 2:03:45 PM4 votes

I think the only thing Quinn needs is a much smoother AA. As in her AA is on the level of Karthus bad. As in the best thing for her to buy for csing is AS level of bad. You give her a half decent AA, and then she becomes viable.

Other things that would be nice to have: Harrier marking quicker/smarter. Actually I think that's everything.

Sy Chronos9/3/2015, 9:57:26 PM3 votes

That's pretty cool. I can't wait for what they'll do to Quinn!

thenotoriousman9/3/2015, 11:09:18 AM2 votes

Best I can recall, there were some experimental changes that briefly cropped up on the PBE at the start of the preseason - as in, last October - that were just as quickly pulled; there were changes to her autoattack range and attempting to make her more of a transformation champ like Elise, Nidalee, etc. As I understand they were never meant to leave the internal testing environment, but it has been almost a year and her patch notes are basically all bugfixes.

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2014/10/109-pbe-update.html

I've no idea what sort of attention she's being paid right now, but I'm hopeful for a retooled passive, a look at her ult and a new autoattack/empowered (read: Harrier mark detonation) animation; I can't begin to describe the number of CS I've dropped because of a shoddy animation, or cancelling because the sound effect plays before the animation completes, or my passive going on a 6 second cooldown because Valor marked a minion just as it died.

When a supposed Marksman has to go into a solo lane because they can't compete with their supposed matchups - and even then is a sub-optimal pick - that's rather telling.

jade harley BARK9/5/2015, 12:16:58 PM2 votes

As a Quinn main, I think she's fine except for her clunky auto attacks (seriously, why do they cancel when they're a pixel away from your target), random harrier, and melee ult with no melee stats. Her ult is really meant to clean up a fight, or assassinate, but in any case she should have something other than movement speed and attack speed.

dragonboytsubasa9/4/2015, 2:26:16 AM1 votes

I had a couple of ideas for her Q blind I thought I would share -

Apart from making autoattacks miss, it could also make targeted spells (but not skillshots) miss too.
The skill as Valor would be a skillshot based dash (About as far as Quinn's autoattack range) that is still collision based and does aoe damage and blind upon attacking. This definitely gives them more survivability against mages/caster type champions without changing any base stats, as well as Valor having a secondary escape mechanism. Being a skillshot, it should be a more rewarding skill.

For Valor, I'm completely on board with removing Skystrike in exchange for perma-bird form and the lower cooldown, as long as -

Skystrike's execute capabilities are still part of Valor's reportoire, so something like skills/autoattacks dealing increased damage to the target based on their missing health would work.
Valor also gets a passive, something that involves Quinn (To emphasise their identity as a duo).
Quinn and Valor's skills no longer have shared cooldown.

Another concern of mine is definitely the reliability of her passive. I mentioned in another thread that I had a few ideas and I'll post them here too - 1.) Quinn's first basic attack against any unit always deals Harrier damage, and the passive cannot be triggered on the same target for the next 3 seconds unless Quinn Vaults onto them. 2.) Valor acts like Lulu's Pix and deals additional damage to a target after an auto attack by Quinn or the use of her skills. As Valor the passive would change to every 3rd attack Valor attacks twice at reduced damage each hit (Which scales up each time Quinn's ult is levelled up), like Master Yi's double strike. OR 3.) Remove her current passive altogether and replace it with critical strikes dealing additional damage (Which scales as Quinn levels up), with BOTH Blinding Assault and Vault being able to critically strike. This additional damage can stack with item 3031 and runes.

Gwellaouen9/3/2015, 2:11:36 PM1 votes

I hope Riot never remember of her because she is really strong. XD

For some reason, I always shine as Quinn adc. Maybe because I have a good agressive support: for example I got a Leona on my last game as her. Maybe because, I am in Bronze and the other adc doesn't know how to beat her. I best a Jinx in lane pretty easily.

Well aim, her e is devastating. Just give her an agressive support and you'll be set.

WarlockLaw9/4/2015, 6:01:12 PM1 votes

{quoted}

Top lane you deprive your team of a tank, and you don't offer as much carry potential as other squishy top laners like Fiora, and mid lane you suffer the assassin identity problems.

My build with Quinn top actually leaves her tankier than Fiora/Riven etc. With Quinn you really only need Youmuu's, Botrk and cleaver to kill ppl as you don't need to go class cannon squishy dps as the real adc should be doing that. Also with those 3 items you have more than enough burst to kill the enemy adc consistently which is my goal mid/late game as Quinn. After those items I usually go full tank with items like Randuin/banshee/spirit visage.

I just hope that when they do change her it is something more along the lines of Garen or Darius where they only buff her existing patterns and make them stronger while also adding in more glaring weaknesses (though not necessarily the stupidly high numbers). I don't want them to do something more along the level of Skarner or Morde or Fiora.

Summonerrr 19/4/2015, 11:20:19 PM1 votes

I'm just spitballing here, but here goes. Having quinn's ult reworked into something like Gnar's ragebar where it's semi-controllable (probably not best to make her resourceless) would make using her Valor-form feel more rewarding and separate, rather than how it is now where you poke down and then ult-rush and cycle then ult out for an execute. to me it seems like the most effective use for her ult is an execution combo, and that doesn't seem...well.. fun. Or unique. Or even engaging for that matter. I want to feel engaged when I ult, like olaf's or zed's, or even karthus's ult does. You feel engaged when you ult someone. with quinn it's more of a "well I already know what I'm wanting to do, this just helps me do it, and now it's over? ok..."

I really have no idea what the BEST way to rework her is, or if her ult needs a rework, all I know is her kit seems disjointed, clunky, and overall, it kinda well.. just sucks. The worst part is it took riot WAY too long to fix all the bug's and spaghetti code wrong with her kit, and there's still stuff buggy with it. same as azir, syndra, etc. I'm more annoyed that it took them so long to fix stuff that shouldn't make it past beta-testing than the fact that she well....sucks. way to go with that quallity assurance, Riot.

Valor Bot9/6/2015, 5:06:20 AM1 votes

This is slightly off-topic, but does anyone else think Vault has been acting a bit clunkier lately? It was alright for a while, particularly after the Patch 5.6 cleanup; the ability wouldn't send me in random directions after the kick-off, which it seems to be doing at a greater frequency now, at least in my experience.

SentineIs9/3/2015, 4:02:00 PM1 votes

I agree from my experience playing Quinn that making changes to her passive to be more reliable (have it be on third hit etc), fine tuning her scout identity, fixing her auto animations and making other small utility changes is the way to go. I personally would like Quinn to be untargetable during her Vault animation (But I guess some people think that's OP haha). But yeah my major source of frustration is it seems Riot is ignoring her and there is no indication that they care about Quinn when she has a low play rate and is disliked by the majority of the community for no other reason then the pre-conceived notion that "she sucks...she's an adc with a melee ranged ult".

If anything, the things I want changed/answered by Riot are.

Will they fix her horrible auto animation (I've auto-canceled so many times and lost kills because of the clunky animation). (itd be pretty cool for her to spin her crossbow in her hand every shot but meh that's not important)
Establish her identity in a lane, so that people actually know where to take her a year past her release other than...Quinn adc? No go top Quinn adc sucks...oh how bout Quinn mid she's good. <--- this conversation is ok when a champion is released, but when its the conversation she still has since release its a problem.
Riot have some indication that she's even in your radar. It seems like your blatantly ignoring her because no one plays her so you don't have to work on her.

EDIT: By the way i'm just curious but why does this thread not appear on the Gameplay and Balance front page? Does the forums sort by amount of votes rather than recent comment?

Also Riot! Your considering nerfing Vayne indirectly or directly, you guys said you were considering strengthening her counters, use this opportunity to fix Quinn D:!

SwagOnEm9/26/2015, 7:58:00 PM1 votes

they always say they are working on her and they are aware, for the past year or two at least. doesn't look like they mean it tho..

Tahyana9/3/2015, 3:09:20 PM1 votes

I think they should do something about her "W". Either shorten the CD, or give her an AS buff. I realize they have her as a fighter, and her lore is leaning toward scout, but instead of stealth like Teemo , they give her a brief moment to see if anyone is hiding and it doesn't reveal traps.

Maybe her "W" could do both an AS buff and still reveal, but allow it to see traps as well.