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Flask over D.Blade for ADC

MPendragon·2/2/2015, 6:04:27 AM·9 votes·3,133 views

I notice just about everyone on my team questions why I get Flask as a starting item over a Doran's Blade.

I don't always do it, i've been doing it on Varus all season long, and I think I've been relatively successful in my endeavor.

He's got a relatively spammable skillshot, so Flask regenerates Health and Mana. I'm an ex-DotA veteran, and regeneration always triumphed anything else in the lane.

Not, the majority of the time, not the minority of the time. ALL THE TIME. I realize LoL is different, and some mechanics are just merely shattered in comparison.

But D.Blade doesn't give you much breathing room for suffering harassment. If you don't have a sustain Support, you're probably screwed over a self-sustaining harasser.

My early game farm is not hindered whatsoever by not getting a damage item, even if I start Q. I have like 90-95% last hit for the entirety of laning phase.

Granted, I realize not every ADC is dependant on mana, yet I don't think people think outside the box when they're making decisions on how to build their champion, even from level 1. People just buy Doran's blade because the recommended build tells them to, even if it may or may not be the best decision. Same thing with Annie mid, self sustaining; I just buy health pots, stealth wards, and a vision ward, and non-stop farm creeps. I have near perfect CS until the 10-15 minute mark, and have several thousand gold, I don't get ganked because the jungler can't flank me without me knowing that he's attempting to.

28 Comments

Hyrum Graff2/2/2015, 3:44:24 PM4 votes

As far as I'm aware, the reason adcs typically take dblade is because lvl-2 all-ins are so popular, and when you fight an all-in, the extra hp and damage makes much more of a difference than a little sustain. If you've got a disengage support like Janna, you could probably afford to run flask.

Weasel Kensei2/2/2015, 9:55:24 AM3 votes

Dude, I hear you. Nothing wrong with taking flask. I play a lot of mages and I am also fairly new to LoL and only have one rune page. On said page I have a fair number of mana regen runes, attack speed, and health regen. I believe in sustain durring laneing phase.

When I go ADC I tend to pick mana hungry Sivir. When I buy my starting items I get..... D.ring...

I am sick of being asked why I got that. Noobs all act like I just have no idea what Im doing and bought a random item. Iv been accused of trolling.... I then have to tell them:

**"Sivir uses her Q to harass, poke, and farm in lane. Sivir's Q scales off AP also and D.ring gives more damage than dagger. Since Q is so important that is good. D.ring also gives mana regen and mana gain/on kill. This provideds mana sustain. I can also buy 2 potions instead of 1 with dagger. Getting health from D.dagger means hitting minions and thus pushing the lane. In my opinion the 2 potions is better for health sustain. With 2 potions I get better health sustain and D.ring gives better mana sustain. In summery, D.ring is Q damage/mana sustain, if you dont understand how that is good for Sivir then you havent played her." **

I have to generally stop farming and educate people cause of their foolish preconceptions of what the ONLY starting item configuration for the bottom lane ADC SHOULD be in their tiny closed minds.

I get further grief when I get Essence Reaver as my first item... Cause completing my mana sustain, getting life steal, cooldown reduction, and 80 AD all in one item is baddie item cause I didnt get Infinity edge.

It all boils down to "You didnt buy what I think you should have so youre bad."

Doogmi2/2/2015, 7:34:56 AM3 votes

The reason you don't see pros use anything but Dorans to start is Trading. By taking pots and flask to start you have extra Health/mana regeneration. But you have a smaller pool of health and all of your abilities including your autos will deal less damage than your opponents. And as you level up before your first back that difference only increases. High elo adcs don't run lifesteal quints anymore after the nerfs to them because they are no longer efficient. Also because of the changes to the Dorans blade. as far as spamming abilities goes, that is largely a skill match-up. Your ability to aim and your opponents ability to dodge are the main factors. You can fish for damage, and to a degree that can help. But that won't always work. at least this is what I've heard from several challenger/pro players

MPendragon2/2/2015, 6:16:56 AM2 votes

I've really only opened it up on Varus.

On Miss Fortune I might start Long Sword and pots, and rush into a brutalizer / black cleaver for early team fights depending on composition.

Flask + 3 health pots, is just insane sustain.That's 900 additional healing from items, to get that same amount of healing from a Doran's Blade lifesteal, you would need to auto attack something insane like 2,000 times.

It's a clear sustain advantage, nothing in the game thus far can triumph that, subtract a healing support.

Honestly really, any champion that has a spammable harass skillshot, could see validity in it. I choose Varus because he has a built-in damage boost in his W. I usually try to rush BF sword, if not pickaxe, if not brown boots and D.blade. I generally always pick up a D.blade anyway, but it isn't always necessarily my first item.

MPendragon2/2/2015, 6:30:01 AM2 votes

No offense bro, there's something wrong with humanity if ADC's are diving that far into the Support Tree, let alone at all.

But because I am a mathematician, I will debate your argument.

10.5% lifesteal off of 72 damage is still only 7 health returned per auto attack, with the single health pot you get for regeneration. You would most likely win burst trades, or early all-ins, but unless you had a sustainable support champion, you are most likely to lose trades against a sustainer, or spend your time trying to last hit under your tower.

I don't think most ADC's do run lifesteal quints, although I would agree that they used to. Doran's blade was nerfed in S3 or S4, removing 5 health returned upon slain target, which stacked well with Feast in offensive masteries and lifesteal quints, as you would return approximately 10 health per slain target.

Orangesilk2/2/2015, 2:49:44 PM1 votes

Depends on the enemy lane though, you want sustain against something like Caitlyn and Zyra, sure, but against something like Draven and Leona, I'd seriously consider a dorans SHIELD.

Drunk Rummate2/2/2015, 3:50:36 PM1 votes

the loss in AD is a pretty big deal. personally I'd sooner go longsword than flask and rush a brutalizer, but hey if it works for you then go for it dude.

Edbwn2/2/2015, 10:08:56 PM1 votes

Dude honestly I've been seeing tons of flask starts lately. From tons of champs and lanes. I wonder why it's gaining popularity, or if it's not and it's just my imagination. item 2041

Dark Topline2/2/2015, 6:09:39 AM1 votes

I never thought about starting a flask on an adc, interesting thinking on your part. I currently play a lot of top-lane, but a few months ago I could have considered myself an adc main. Could you post what other adc champions you suggest starting flask on? I'm actually pretty curious.

Madra2/3/2015, 3:02:19 AM1 votes

I could see this being useful for Quinn.

Tusutaki2/2/2015, 6:22:13 AM1 votes

Well the reason why majority of adcs dont get flash+pots is because you have 4.5% life steal from runes quints, 3% from the mastery support tree, and then the 3% from Dorans Blade. 10% life steal right off the bat without sacrificing much of the offensive tree. Plus you would get the added movement speed boost from the support tree to better maneuver.

NinjaFifer2/2/2015, 7:42:19 AM1 votes

One of the reasons Riot gave for switching D.Blade over from flat health regen per attack to Lifesteal was that they wanted it to scale into the later game. They wanted the item to feel like it wasn't a waste past the 10 minute mark, and that you could stack two or three and get a satisfying amount of Lifesteal.

I'm not sure if they failed, or if people haven't run double or triple D.Blade enough for it to catch on, but I can definitely agree that Flask sounds like a better option for a more caster type ADC. I probably wouldn't pick it up on someone like Vayne or Draven, but Kog or even Caitlyn could have some serious use for that mana and self sustain.

The Whamboozler2/2/2015, 10:35:01 AM1 votes

I start Longsword and pots on nearly every adc. The small bit of extra health isn't game-breaking for me, and the lifesteal is meager compared to 3 pots of sustain. Most of the time I can endure trades by just healing up afterwards with one of my three pots and I tend to outlast D.Blade users AND I didn't spend gold on something that won't build into anything. The only weak spot I've had with this start is hard aggressive all-in lanes.

junglerboy162/2/2015, 1:53:01 PM1 votes

I think the only reason people like starting D-blade over other starts at the moment is that now D-blade gives normal life steal, and scales throughout the game as you get more damage. I don't think there is anything wrong with taking flask on an ADC, it is also super cost efficient. Personally, I take D-blade on champs that cannot afford to have low damage early, which is either late game ADCs who need the extra stats early to not get pulped, or an aggressive/bursty lane bully who can capitalize on the extra damage in their combo. Varus would probably be one of the only ADCs where flask would actually be the better option in my opinion, for the reasons you mentioned. If I'm playing somebody like Graves or Draven though, D-blade is much more efficient.