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Deep Problems for Randuins and Sunfire Cape

Byakuyazakura·1/27/2016, 5:44:20 PM·4 votes·763 views

I don't actually think Dead Man Plate's supremacy has anything at all to do with it being more cost effective. I think Randuin's Omen and Sunfire Cape need to be redesigned.

Sunfire Cape currently has no purpose in the game. Junglers don't buy it as they have Cinderhulk. Supports don't want to accidentally cs. Midlaners necessarily have to be able to farm and damage without it. Marksmen don't really use its passive as ranged carries. And by Riot's own statements the juggernauts at toplane are supposed to be buying DMP. So that leaves a handful of non-juggernaut toplaners who will have any use for it.

Randuin's Omen does directly compete with DMP in the role for Midgame Armor/Health for all 5 roles and is inferior because of Presence. People didn't buy Randuin's for its passive/active. They bought it because they needed the beefyness and a semi-useful passive/active is better than Sunfire Cape on almost every role. Then enter DMP. Higher mobility and an single target slow. These are universally useful on all champs and noticeable as well. Having DMP feels like a substantive difference with its passive. Randuin's passive (and the active most of the time) on the other hand feels almost non-existent.

Making DMP more expensive isn't going to change this dynamic and neither is simply amplifying the other two. It will take a deeper change to bring Randuin and Sunfire back. Sunfire needs a purpose and form that makes it competitive for most of the roles. Non-Tank Junglers and Supports need something that focuses on something other than farm potential. Tank Junglers need something with a passive that isn't redundant. Marksmen and Mages need something that amplifies their damage from range (presuming you maintain an offensive passive). That or just kick the item. Randuin simply needs to be designed in a way that makes it more noticeably useful. Its purpose at present is to alter teamfights. That's a good purpose but it needs to do so in a more prominent fashion so that the player can say "This is why I bought Randiun over DMP."

3 Comments

Critmaster Garen1/27/2016, 6:26:57 PM3 votes

randuins is fine. they were talking about how juggernauts are chosing dead mans over the other 2 options.

well, randuins is a really good item, but too expensive in combination with cleaver. you want to start powerspiking around the time when the lane phase is over, and randuins slightly higher price delays that power spike. its also less comfortable to build, since wardens mail is a lot more expensive than chain vest. so its harder to pick up for some extra armor, when you need it.

and sunfire cape is simply useless on most juggs. its not worth much as a rushed duelling item anymore since the aura damage was nerfed to level scaling. so you buy it rather on ap bruisers and tanks for increased waveclear and extra damage against squishies, since they usually itemize at least a little bit into magic pen with item 3001 and/or item 3151 + runes.

there is nothing inherently wrong with dead mans being the better choice on juggs.

Rebonack1/27/2016, 7:02:45 PM3 votes

Step 1) Improve the crit resistance on Omen. Give it Frozen Heart's attack speed nerf aura. Make it the item for dealing with Marksmen and Strikers.

Step 2) Improve that burn aura. Seriously. Maybe add an active that releases a big AoE fireblast. People should be buying this item because they want to be an AoE damage source.

Step 3) Remove the armor scaling from Thornmail. Seriously. All that does is make the item impossible to balance for the whole cast so long as Malph, Rammus, and Taric continue to exist. In its place, give it some OnHit magic damage so this item increases your threat even if you aren't being auto-attacked. Adjust the OnHit damage and the %damage return until they find a nice balance point.

Step 4) Remove Frozen Heart's attack speed nerf aura. Nerfing attacking speed is what Omen is for. Instead, give it an aura that gives all allied champions within it 15% untyped resistance against physical damage. Thus, Frozen Heart becomes the anti-physical damage spell item.

Notice a trend here? All Tank items should be increasing your threat somehow, since you want to be attacked as a Tank. Threat can be increased with more damage (Thorn and Sunfire) or by increasing the durability of your allies (Omen and Heart). Deadman's is a bit different, as it exists to improve your ability to initiate for your team.

MorningEspeon1/27/2016, 6:28:25 PM1 votes

Agreed. Sunfire just doesn't seem useful in many cases. It works best on tank jungles, but they have Cinderhulk so they don't need it. Tank top laners work better with DMP because of the slow and speed boost for trading and sticking. Sunfire is good if you are a teamfighting tank who exists only to be in the center of the enemy team, i.e. Galio, Rammus, Shen, Malphite. I think it just needs to be reworked, honestly.

A different story is Randuin's. I really like the item, it gives nice stats. The effects it has don't really do much though. The AoE slow is hard to use effectively, the AA slow on hit is not really noticeable, and the crit resistance is nominal at best. Personally, I would change it to less of a tanky item and more of a utility item. Lower the health and increase the armor, say to 350hp and 70ar, and then increase the crit resistance to something meaningful. The active... it could change, it could stay the same, I don't really know. My point is that it should be something you build if the enemy is getting a lot of crit.