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Getting one shot against assassins versus getting one shot against mages

Iamgeyer·7/14/2018, 1:10:31 AM·58 votes·15,449 views

- Has to be ahead in order to kill you with one rotation. Has to hit her q in order to guarantee her other abilities, Q is dodgable. You can QSS/cleanse if you get hit by the Q in order to survive.

v

- Comes at you from stealth and one shots you with point and click abilities. Does this as long as he's not very far behind.

- Has an easily avoidable stun that he needs to hit in order to land W. He needs to land W and q mid game and earlier in order to kill in one rotation unless fed. Late game he has to Q, then R to one shot. You can still sidestep his Q if you know he's going to try to cast it.

V

- Needs to land a large hitbox displacement/damage ulti to towerdive his opponent at level 6. Once he does this, he can use his w for absurd amounts of damage. His invulnerability insures you can't retaliate against him in any way, shape, or form, as he can hold it until you use a key ability.

- Can't kill you with just R unless obscenely fed. Generally requires qwe ---> ult to oneshot, and even then she has to be ahead in order to do it. You can sidestep her stun, which is key if she wants to setup more damage(although the hitbox is really weird on it)

v

- Can 100-0 at level 2, which forces his opponents to zone themselves from farm after he reaches it. Has an ult that grants stealth, which he can use in tandem with ghostblade to get into range to one show you with his impossible to miss W and his point and click Q. This champion would be fair since he generally needs to find flanks to one shot due to his mediocre range, but since exists flanking on his is super easy.

Note: I know mages offer other things to their teams, but it's just super frustrating to play league right now against the current meta assassins. It doesn't feel like you ever stood a chance against them.

111 Comments

Arcane Blue Boi7/14/2018, 1:12:36 AM34 votes

Against mages, theres always the counterplay that you could dodge the skillshot. Most assassins dont have skillshots OR they are guaranteed to hit unless you're a god at sidestepping (for example fizz R, talon W)

Jamaree7/14/2018, 1:11:36 AM17 votes

This post feels incredibly bias, side note...yeah Veigar can easily one shot you, what?

sobi9997/14/2018, 10:17:50 AM14 votes

It is not AP vs AD the OP's discussion is based on.

These Leblanc Zoe are just as toxic as these Zed Talon MonkeyKing but in their own slightly different ways.

They all work like assassins and have enough mobility and damage to negate counter play and return to safety. Yes i am generalizing here, but the fact remains that champions like Lux have more or less nothing that makes the aforementioned champions cancerous. While i can agree she has commendable burst, but as OP mentioned and as a hardcore 200k mastery Lux main, she CANNOT 100-0 you in one rotation unless she is very ahead. The same does NOT apply to Zed because i have for the life of me seen countless zed's getting stomped in lane and still 100-0 me when they get item 3147 . This brings me to the point that AD itemization without a doubt have better synergy with assassins than AP itemization has.

I would also like to reiterate the common concern here, that league's downfall will be the fact that an easy to learn game but hard to master game, has turned into an easy to learn, play and easy to master game. There is literally no requirement of micro play as one shots actually exist without getting overly fed nor is there any requirement for landing chain of abilities, let alone in the right order. Nonetheless, I would have to say that the game still keeps some macro play but with the introduction of herald and changes to baron has lessened the need of that as well.

Lastly, the lack of vision and the ability to remove vision has only aggravated the symptoms of power creep. I'd suggest the game needs not only reduced damage but mobility as well. There is a reason why all these new champs have one thing in similar Pyke Zoe Rakan Kaisa . YES, that'll be mobility regardless of their role.

If league wants the games to end faster, it can do so without sacrificing so much of micro play.

Edit: Micro is how to play your champ and against enemy champs (skillshots, laning, combos, teamfighting)

Macro is how to play the game (wards, positioning, rotations, objectives, teamfight set-up)

Milton Fletcher7/14/2018, 1:18:45 AM12 votes

nonbiased counter argument

Leblanc - has to click her q button on an enemy champ and then w/e to kill a squishy

Zed - has to land every single q after ulting to kill you unless you have literally 300 hp and no summoners and are standing still

Veigar has to walk up to you and press r

Renekton - has to flash stun you and then attempt to burn the rest of your hp if you survived with his q or autos.

Zoe has to q you from 2 miles away

Riven has to flash on you and combo you perfectly or you have a window to escape or cc her

Syndra literally press r

Quinn has to run in with 600 ms and hope you dont have atleast 1 person on your team to cc her and use her e and q while hitting the eagle eye proc to finish you off.

Karma press empowered q as a full ap champ

Fiora has to ulti you and then proc every vital

notice how UNBIASED this was because i didnt pick the most braindead champions that can be built into assassins in my argument for upvotes rather than use factual evidence

remakoro7/14/2018, 5:11:09 PM12 votes

Most of oneshots by mages can be avoided by building one shitty MR item. Anything will do. item 3028 item 3111 item 3155 item 3211 item 3105 item 3140 item 3091 Even if they are obscenely fed. You will be able to at least back off with 10 hp and prevent your opponent from getting more gold.

Which isnt really the case with assassins...

EasternBladeStar7/14/2018, 4:29:00 PM11 votes

The rare few occasions a mage oneshots me, I usually find myself thinking along the lines of "I made a mistake --- ", "I should not have---- "

When an assassin does the same, it's just "oh it's that bullshit again, how fun."

Mage kills you when YOU make a mistake. Assassin does not kill you when THEY make a mistake. Here's the difference.

Craktite7/14/2018, 10:20:38 AM10 votes

You forget the most stupid AD assassin : Nocturne , even without the dash, his ult in incredible op.

Killer of Night97/14/2018, 9:06:24 AM9 votes

About wukong vs lux I would add a thing. If lux hit you with Q you can instantly go to zhonya even after Cc. If wukong jump into you (and if you're not dead qith E+Q combo) you can't press zhonya because the burst is alredy done and it's too fast and also his ult won't let you use it since is a knock up.

Wolfalisk3187/14/2018, 5:08:55 PM9 votes

Should mention that Zed can press R, autoattack you once, miss Q and E, and you still ded.

Akali is SO HOT7/14/2018, 7:57:35 AM8 votes

{quoted}

- Has an easily avoidable stun

When you have a better Jarvan ult on a basic ability

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztVMib1T4T4

Hyquiem7/14/2018, 1:54:14 AM7 votes

Eh, mages aren’t suppose to oneshot unless one perticular sub class in general (burst mages) secondly, assasins one shot JusT TOOO quickly, it’s like there’s ether a .03 second delay from an assasins rotation on you which just hurts.... but on top of that if you didn’t feed them they might not be able to oneshot big if ur team did then they are... unless you keep them far behind.. it’s just more stupid to have a .03 second time to read unless you have no cc.. just make an item to block ad for mages..pls

EminenceVoid7/14/2018, 6:10:37 AM6 votes

anyone noticed that the assassin katarina isnt here? or mentioned? yeah.... yeah....

Nausicäa 7/14/2018, 7:48:23 AM6 votes

Ya you got this wrong dude. Fizz doesnt need to be lvl 6 or land his ult to 100-0 you. Literally possible at lvl 3 + ignite.

Athenes Lulu7/14/2018, 10:23:12 AM3 votes

Supports can't peel from mages, but can from assassins.

You can see assassins as they kill you, as bullshit as this sounds, but mages have abilities to kill you offscreen.

I know assassins are running amok right now ~~because people begged for enchanter nerfs and now nothing is left to save you guys~~, but come on, don't be this biased.

Ionian Vulpix7/14/2018, 6:15:15 PM2 votes

Veigar is not a good example of a healthy mage. Even if he doesn't land the stun, it still massively limits your options unless you dash out of it before the cast animation or flash over the wall.

windapple7/15/2018, 4:59:49 AM2 votes

Obviously the classes are going to be different. You are taking a group of champions that are intended to poke from afar with short cooldown, long range ablities that have the potential to one shot a squishy if their CC lands. The most important factor in all of this is the requirement of the assassin to throw their body at you.

Talon can't 1 shot with only W, Fizz can't 1 shot with just R, and Wukong doesn't even have a ranged ability to speak of. Mages don't just offer other things that can be dismissed so quickly. The lockdown of Veigar's E can decide a teamfight alone without even considering damage dealt. Mages especially don't NEED to 1 shot to be useful. If a Talon dives backline and can't kill a carry, he's utterly useless.

Yes the meta favors 1 shot champions at the moment but I feel like this post is merely suggesting buffing mages to be delete oriented or gutting assassins to prevent them from doing the only thing their kits allow, both of which wouldn't improve the state of the game at all.

Malak7/14/2018, 10:30:47 PM2 votes

Assasins should be based around entering and exiting fights with high burst damage. But low cooldowns and reduced damage compared to now so they don’t one shot

ChaddyFantome7/15/2018, 12:55:20 AM1 votes

Has to be ahead in order to kill you with one rotation. Has to hit her q in order to guarantee her other abilities, Q is dodgable. You can QSS/cleanse if you get hit by the Q in order to survive.

But her shooting her Q requires no risk in using it and she doesn't even need to be ahead because her Q makes for free picks in the mid game for her allies to pile on.

Veigar Has an easily avoidable stun that he needs to hit in order to land W. He needs to land W and q mid game and earlier in order to kill in one rotation unless fed. Late game he has to Q, then R to one shot. You can still sidestep his Q if you know he's going to try to cast it.

This is just bullshit. His E is a j4 ulti at level one that last 3 seconds that stuns you for 3 seconds if you touch the edge at any point. He doesn't need to stun you, if you are in the Circle, it is near impossible for his W to miss. He also doesn't put himself at risk by using it.

- Can't kill you with just R unless obscenely fed. Generally requires qwe ---> ult to oneshot, and even then she has to be ahead in order to do it. You can sidestep her stun, which is key if she wants to setup more damage(although the hitbox is really weird on it)

Lies, she can miss every Q and kill you just because of how her R works, you can't sidestep her stun if the player is competent and casts both Q and E at the same time. the travel speed is too great to be reasonably dodged. Doesn't put herself at any risk by fishing with it.

Can 100-0 at level 2, which forces his opponents to zone themselves from farm after he reaches it.

His W doesn't get a lower CD per Rank and he needs to land both to do anything to you. So long as you are competent, you will be the one doing the Zoning since he runs on mana and W is his only real laning tool in terms of farm, harass or general presence.

his impossible to miss W

I don't think a dumber statement has been made on this board.