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Am I the only unhappy person with the Ashe rework? :(

YOU BEEN WARNED·5/22/2015, 12:24:33 PM·41 votes·3,251 views

I suck at the ADC role, I really do. It's my worst position.

Ashe has been my go-to ADC when the duty calls, I liked her because her mechanics were very simple and that I found her to have a very low skill floor; also that ult makes or breaks teamfights even if you suck in lane which I am likely to do; same for the gold generating passive.

People like me who picked Ashe for the low skill floor got.. highly punished for being bad at the role.

Slow now scales with how leveled you are, not with your ability rank control. W now less likely to whittle enemies down early laning phase to protect yourself from an all-in because of the blocking mechanic. E does not grant gold, your comeback potential is more heavily associated with your team than it ever was with Ashe. Ult slow nerf because why not, reliability is toxic unless it's a flashy mobile character amirite?

I expect my voice to be buried.. Who cares about players who need skill floor champions anyway, telling them "get gud" will obviously motivate them to become better. Giving them hints and tips will increase their mechanical skill and turn them to doublelift incarnates.

I am sorry for existing.

63 Comments

GuardDX5/22/2015, 12:32:07 PM13 votes

I'm not so sure they made the skill floor any higher, perhaps you just need a couple pointers on how to use the new ashe or to look at item prioritization.

I think it was a pretty lateral move, and I actually find her easier to play in most situations.

Fried Noob5/22/2015, 1:29:53 PM11 votes

Her W was always block able though, unless you're talking about multiple arrows being blocked but not counting as more damage, which is for balance reasons (point blank volleys would insta-kill) and at least I never maxed Q first to get any real benefit out if the Q leveling slow, so the passive makes it stronger early, a bit weaker mid, and about the same late. While the bonus gold from E is gone, Ashe can actually fight back against people, so she isn't as reliant in sit back and farm until I get an item to win lane. Lastly, Ashe is still very simple and plays basically the same. Only now she has a global clairvoyance, permaslow for free, bonus damage based on crit on slowed targets instead of one guaranteed crit whenever you went for a walk of pacifism, and the ability to trade well with new Q.

ImTheSideKick5/22/2015, 5:02:08 PM7 votes

it turned ma support ashe into trash qq

Abyssphere5/22/2015, 4:57:45 PM7 votes

This post started out as a very reasonable complaint about the rework and then turned into a pity party very suddenly. Nobody is punishing you for existing or being bad at the role - the rework was just aimed towards making people who sincerely liked Ashe (rather than people like you who played her because she was just braindead enough for you) feel more satisfied with her. There were a lot of calls to make Ashe more satisfying and unfortunately that was never going to leave her as simple as she was.

I'm not saying "git gud" or anything but if you are so bad at ADC that every one of Ashe's simple mechanics formed a crutch for you then I would suggest you try to practice the role a bit more. I mean at the end of the day if you're a really bad ADC then you don't have a fundamental right to perform as well as someone who's more practiced in the role - picking an easy ADC is a good idea but it shouldn't be a substitute for actual self-improvement.

I'd suggest spending some time trying to learn to be a decent ADC with other simple ADCs like Caitlyn. Nobody has the easy utility Ashe has but well, you have to make do with what you have. You don't need to have such a defeatist attitude - you need to go out there and make it so that the Ashe changes aren't a problem for you.

Reikken5/22/2015, 2:22:09 PM6 votes

Ashe used to be my go-to marksman for her utility and front-loaded damage now I play Miss Fortune

4nth0l0gy5/22/2015, 3:25:44 PM5 votes

I dislike people who act absurdly apologetic when they're trying to logically discuss a point. That aside:

  1. You shouldn't need to worry about being good or bad at a role, as the system will rank you accordingly. You shouldn't be facing opponents who are consistently better than you at a role, if you specifically play that role often.

  2. There should always be some challenge to playing a champion. If there isn't, that typically means the champion is either unfun to play against or has a wonky kit. As much as I believe you should enjoy the champion you play, your champion should also not be frustrating to play against.

  3. Was Ashe unfun or infuriating before? Not really. She wasn't very interactive, though, and she had a lot of strangely placed or hidden power: her crit passive and her free gold generation were both really weird, the former not benefiting her playstyle, and the latter serving as a weak form of compensation.

  4. Ashe's rework, in my opinion, does not at all make her more complex; it simply focuses her playstyle more. Before, Ashe had 1 moment in which she could play non-passively: when her ult was up. Otherwise, her kit gave her no tangible strong moments. Now, she doesn't need the compensation of gold generation, and a built-up crit strike, because she isn't a completely passive champion. The most you ever have to do with her mechanically that you didn't have to do before is time when you hit your Q in a teamfight. She's more interactive with her opponents as a result of this rework, which is better, but also still simple mechanically.

Wînter Fox5/22/2015, 2:33:39 PM4 votes

Lol we forgive you.

But get gud.

Extreme Troller5/22/2015, 3:41:38 PM4 votes

all rework sux, why would you think it was a good rework ? LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL.

new ashe cannot even crit the first hit, and she deal 0 bonus damage to irelia mundo with tenacity potion, because the slow only last 0.5sec and ashe waste her passive LOOOOOOOOOL SO screwed champion, i've never though riot could make a worst champ designed than bard.

T RexHasTinyArms5/22/2015, 2:51:36 PM3 votes

First let me say you get mad respect for being willing to play low bronze in order to stay a fan of trundle. I was going to say take a high damage mage with sustain damage (karth, cassio, Heimer) bot lane instead of ADC if no one on your team can ADC, since if you play that stuff you'd do better w/ it than trying to switch up to something you don't play often. However, it looks like you only play melee stuff for the most part, so may be go double bruiser bot lane instead. Take like pantheon or something going panth/jarvan or a stupid kill lane like that bot and you both start with targon's so you can split as much CS as possible. You'll end up w/ less farm than a solo lane, but you get more than trying a different way, and your job is to kill the enemy ADC in lane... a lot. It doesn't matter about your cs as much as it does that the enemy ADC doesn't get any and that you get enough kills that your team can win team fights when you group, bc you have to win mid game doing that or you will get out scaled and they win easy since they have an ADC and you don't.

Not sure if that's useful but it's at least different advice. (As a side note why do you keep playing trundle when you have sooo much more success in terms of winning on other champs? I love playing cho bc it's amusing w/ my name, but I don't play to his strengths well and don't win w/ him, so I stopped playing him and focus on playing stuff I enjoy as much and win more with.)

Red Frostraven5/22/2015, 6:40:03 PM3 votes

I think the 5 stacks are extremely gimmicky.

Big minion wave --> Volley - > insta5 -> machine-gun Q

Only one champion in sight ->... Feels like Q does nothing at all

Having to build up 5 quickly decaying stacks before Q starts to work "fancily"... Eh. Just drop the stacks. At lower levels, the increase in attack speed may only grant one single extra shot over 3 seconds, when your base attack speed is lower than 1 per second -- still after including bonuses already present.

... And give me back the old volley. At the very least you could hit more than 3 targets with it, and you could actually hit opponents inside minion waves if there was an opening and you were familiar with the spread. Now all the arrows hit the same minion, and don't deal any extra damage. Which is kind of gimmicky as well: Each deals damage to a unique target, but not to the same.

I'd far rather see the following happen: 10% damage at short range, rapidly increasing to 100% damage over range -- and let multiple arrows hit the same target and deal damage. ...

junglerboy165/22/2015, 4:07:58 PM3 votes

Actually, the removal of the gold from E was so they could majorly buff her Q. With Q active, you have at minimum twice the gold benefit of your E at any point in the game (just the AS alone gives you 1800 gold in stats, where the E passive at most got you around 900 gold by the very end of the game (meaning at least 300 CS)). Additionally, having power built into her kit directly means that instead of just capping on items earlier, she now has a higher total potential (basically, she is able to get much stronger a lot more reliably because like any other champ, she can still reach max items while still having that same gold bonus elsewhere in her kit).

Yes she is a little more complex, but most people actually don't realize that Ashe was already one of the hardest ADCs to use. Just because she's cheap doesn't actually make her easy, since you have to be extremely proficient with your kiting mechanics to use her decently. Simply having an extra active should not hinder you in any significant way, especially considering it is an extremely basic steroid effect.

Red Frostraven5/22/2015, 8:31:03 PM3 votes

Okay.

I given this a couple of hours worth of consideration now: What I'd do to overhaul the current Ashe, removing gimmicks and streamlining her kit:

Passive: Upon hitting an opponent with an ability or basic attack, build one stack. Upon 5 stacks, the next basic attack will critically hit. Or deal double damage. And keep the current crit system. ... what I think should've been done in the first place.

Q: "Machine gun": No stacks required to get "machine gun" effect. Bonus magic damage from AP: 15%

W: Volley: Revert to old volley Bonus magic damage from AP: 35%

E: Passive: Abilities and basic attacks chill opponents 15/20/25/30/35% + 1% per 20 ability power E: Active: Throw a poor ice hawk that burns and crashes wherever you chose on the map, revealing the area for 5 seconds +1 second per 100 ability power

R: May now actually read (+X) where X is larger than 0 in other cases than when you forgot to switch runepages

Mast3rMahan5/22/2015, 3:28:46 PM3 votes

You aren't the only one. She was my go to ADC because I genuinely like her playstyle. It was a simple utility play style. I have only played one game since her rework and I don't like it to be honest. I really don't care for the new Q and the faux crit she gets. I like the regular crit mechanic. I know some people think she is awesome and I have played against some good Ashe's post rework, but I'm not one of them sadly. Try to find a new ADC.

Curling Veigar5/22/2015, 3:57:06 PM2 votes

play jinx cuz she's overloaded and simple

Drunk Rummate5/22/2015, 2:57:28 PM2 votes

I find Ashe to be one of the strongest ADCs now. I always loved playing her before the rework but I could never find an excuse to her because other ADCs were just so much better. I absolutely love this rework.
Sorry friend :[

iamthegoatofwar5/22/2015, 4:20:35 PM2 votes

I think personally enemies should be punished by ashe's W. I'm fine with the idea they shouldn't just go 100-0 at level 1 cause they face check me, but if they put themselves in a postion to get hit by several arrows they should take full damage from one and perhaps a little less with each. Might help fix ashe's problems if she has any. Also for those of you that think this is a bad buff please look at graves buckshot which encourages you to get up in their face. But anyway I think the W change would help newbies and give ashe a solid spot as an adc with a low skill floor.

PikaPikaChan5/22/2015, 8:50:30 PM2 votes

Defenetly not! I'm also really unhappy with her new skills. Espacially with w (solve) I know why they did it but anyway, I don't like it. I can't attack the enemy as before it doesn't make fun anymore....It was really cool but now....I don't know. I just want that you can strike enemys with solve even if the're minions on the way.... what do you think?

Zirket Was5/23/2015, 8:11:04 AM1 votes

So, don't play role u can't play? It's not that strange of an advice.

Lugg5/29/2015, 4:46:01 PM1 votes

ADC is my weakest role as well. However, I really like the rework. If you get an all in on you early, you at least have a chance to win it now.