[Riot]League is no longer a strategy game.

Swtos·Feb 20, 2015·142 votes·7,478 views

Turrets are practically non existent(Teams will just tank your nexus turrets if one of your teammates dies).
Every thing thats either point and click or requires strategic thinking and positioning to use gets gutted/removed.
Every single champion that get released has insanely overloaded and broken kits with UNIQUE mobility.
Item pool is extremely small(a lot of items aren't even used).
Items completely not balanced(tank items useless, ad items broken).
Every single game feels more like a moba version of mortal combat, than a strategy game(whoever smashes his keyboard faster wins).
Balance team does not give a damn about what community wants.
Riot hired Ghostcrawler.(pretty self explanatory).

Keep it up Riot, I wonder how much time will it take for your player base to start dropping. You had a good game and you are destroying it yourselves.

119 Comments

Mandang0Feb 20, 201522 votes

Not that I disagree, but could you offer some ideas of how you think they could get back on the right track? That'll make for a much more interesting discussion (with other forum-goers, not expecting a red to post on anything serious).

darkdillFeb 20, 20154 votes

Agreed.

OhOkYeahFeb 20, 20154 votes

Do the reverse of what OP described in the post.

Done

Mandang0Feb 20, 20158 votes

Well, the reverse of "Items completely not balanced" or "Item pool extremely small" isn't very enlightening.

It's like saying "why don't you just make the game not bad?"

OhOkYeahFeb 20, 20154 votes

The item pool is extremely small.

Malix FarwinFeb 20, 201540 votes

{quoted}

Not that I disagree, but could you offer some ideas of how you think they could get back on the right track? That'll make for a much more interesting discussion (with other forum-goers, not expecting a red to post on anything serious).

To be perfectly honest, there is no real point in adding suggestions. I have seen some REALLY thought out and insightful posts about balance and change for the game that got completely ignored. That should be enough to tell you that do not care about their playerbase input. If that isnt enough then how about the one response veigars players finally got which was essentially "we are not changing the changes we made to him and we will decide if they are good or not later", pretty much a huge slap in the face consider he was suppose to get compensation. So yea, no point in giving feedback for a team that doesn't want it.

SwtosFeb 20, 20158 votes

exactly. some people put time and effort into adding very well thought out suggestions but no riot response and if it is, they will say sth about "muh not health for gameplay" or "muh no counterplay must nerf".

PryotraFeb 20, 20155 votes

This hasn't been my experience. Granted, I've probably been here longer, but at the end of the day Riot does listen. It just takes quite the stink to get things noticed.

To give you an example of stink levels required:

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3042773

WARNING: You are entering Ye Olde GD. Make sure to wear uv-proof goggles before entry to shield eyes from terrible colorscheme.

JevelFaithfulFeb 21, 20151 votes

And yet. THere have been posts that asked questions calmly and they got Red attention. Honnestly, toughtful posts might be useless. But so is this thread then.

If you look at what happened when they leaked or unnofficially announced things, they changed and the community wasn't happier in the end. I've also seen toughtfull analysis that actually got a red to answer "Very good analysis, I'll keep that in mind/I'll make send it to [Designer's name].

ZephyrDrakeFeb 21, 20153 votes

{quoted}

And yet. THere have been posts that asked questions calmly and they got Red attention. Honnestly, toughtful posts might be useless. But so is this thread then.

If you look at what happened when they leaked or unnofficially announced things, they changed and the community wasn't happier in the end. I've also seen toughtfull analysis that actually got a red to answer "Very good analysis, I'll keep that in mind/I'll make send it to [Designer's name].

and then you never hear from them again when they type those responses. They don't "keep it in mind" or send it to anyone. Players have asked for them to provide some insight in what they plan to do what their goals are and bunch of things and then almost every single time they don't even bother showing their face or try explaining ANYTHING. It's always the same answers over and over and it's always to the exact same topics (and most of them are joke threads!) so they just leave the players looking for any sort of answers in the dark and getting more frustrated since none of their questions are being answered or even addressed no matter how well though out their thread/question is and it's even a bigger kick in the balls when they come and give you that sort of answer and yet days come by and not a single other response. I thought that these new boards were so they cold more easily communicate with us but nope! better go to reddit or some other random site that's not their main site to post random things THAT WOULD BE GREAT TO HAVE HERE!

LlaniteFeb 21, 20153 votes

A post being long does not make it the right/constructive. It simply means the poster puts some efforts into it.

i.e. You spending 200 hours making a painting simply means it a well-made painting, whether it sells or not is the buyers' call, not the seller's.

SmokingPuffinFeb 20, 201526 votes

I have seen some REALLY thought out and insightful posts about balance and change for the game that got completely ignored.

You are confusing "a Rioter didn't post" with "a Rioter didn't read".

I believe that those quality, insightful posts are not likely to receive red comments because Rioters only tend to post when they have a clear message and direction set. They used to do more discussion and forward-looking comments, and people called them out with things like "but you promised X" and it just burned them more often than it was worth.

If that isnt enough then how about the one response veigars players finally got which was essentially "we are not changing the changes we made to him and we will decide if they are good or not later", pretty much a huge slap in the face consider he was suppose to get compensation.

The feedback on Veigar boiled down to "please don't nerf E", which is an understandable sentiment from Veigar players but really isn't at all useful for the balance team.

The kind of feedback that is useful to them is stuff like "we don't want Diana to be reworked into a sustained damage fighter", " or "it feels like Syndra E is missing when it shouldn't".

Basically, commentary on how things feel, rather than what would be the best way to balance the game. They have much better tools than we do to evaluate balance, and I wouldn't trust anyone from the forums to balance the game any better than they do.

Rew711Feb 21, 20152 votes

Hi, I'm a commenter just like you. I go around and see some of the most confusing posts ever, such as Veigar's E got nerfed rather than the fact that he can now deal damage to 2 targets with his Q now, giving him more ability to gain AP which is what he's about. Though I cannot agree with everything the balance team brings, such as too many skill shots and too many nerfs.

I don't really understand nerfs, to be honest. When a champion is played a lot, we ask for something to be done to help make it so that other champions don't feel to weak. After about a month, we finally see a nerf to that champion when another seems to be stronger by that time. It's not fun playing as some champions anymore.

Since Soraka lost her mana regen on her E, she's not as fun. Since champions like Rek'Sai came out, all I can say is I'm tired of Riot's nerfs. Tryndamere has 100% AP on his E. Gnar has 100% AP on his W. Why can't a mana champion have 100% AP? I can think of a few that could use it. Brand could use 100% AP on his Q skill shot. Cassiopeia could use more damage. Braum deals a lot of damage for a Tank, yet they think that Zac deserves all his nerfs. And Braum is suppose to be a support. Corki now deals barely any damage on his abilities, especially the ultimate that is a skill shot. Dr Mundo deals no damage for a fighter. Elise has no damage. Evelynn is too squishy. Gargas' ultimate could use some damage. Where did Hecarim go? He use to always be played. Janna is not the strongest support, just the most handy right now. With all the armor and magic penetration, Jax's ultimate is now useless, can Riot do something about the penetration, please? Riot can't seem to understand that Kassadin is already in a pitiful state. While Katarina is not that powerful as she use to be, lets nerf her; is what went through Riot's minds. Kha'Zix and Kog'Maw got nerfed. LeBlanc lost a silence. Lucian gets nerfed hard, but meanwhile, Jinx and Kalista are hitting us hard (and yes, Jinx is a little broken but not like Kalista). Lulu's abilities got wrongfully nerfed. Unlike champions like Yasuo, Mordekaiser uses his health, why no compensation? Hurray for this short term shield that can block anything but goes away fast, not like Yasuo's that blocks all attacks and abilities from champions. The list can go on and on.

KaisadiIIaFeb 21, 20151 votes

Evelynn is too squishy.

Eve is not too squishy if built properly. I managed to create a build that was pretty good through all stages of the game, reaching its power spike at late game (Mobility boots > Trinity > Rylai > Liandry > Black cleaver > Jungler tank item), but this year the new "better" jungle has just destroyed my early game... she can't even clear decently if you have no pull. And you know the worst part? She's kept nonviable on purpose. I have to stand RIOT saying that they don't like one of my favorite champions and they won't let her be viable until they rework her. Why? Because they don't like stealth. Because stealth is about strategy and not dodging stuff and they don't like anything that is not about dodging stuff and making LC$ plays.

RikoZerameFeb 21, 2015

I'm not entirely sure why you're jungling without a leash. Under what circumstances would that happen, outside of an uncooperative team (which gives you bigger problems to worry about)?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxij1OwMUDY
Your build looks really nice--I'd actually like to try it sometime--but I've had a lot of success with AD builds. Hitting the Ruined King passive twice with one E is rather nice.

KaisadiIIaFeb 21, 20152 votes

Here at gold you can expect anything: maybe they won't even pull you, maybe they'll just land a basic attack and run to their lane, or maybe they'll just overextend and you have to lose time waiting for them to leave you in order to not to lose experience.
That video was helpful :3. But still, what I was complaining about is that I shouldn't be forced to follow an specific path in order to be able to jungle (RIOT talked too much about strategically choosing which camps you'll do), and either way Eve almost died in the second jungle path (she had 40 HP when she killed blue).
That E change was good for Ruined King's passive, that's true. I have to try an AD-oriented build.

5 Stacks GGFeb 20, 20152 votes

roll back to s2 but keep and re balance the newest champ that mean tri atmast warmogs back darius having his full reset again armor being useful FoN being back hearth of gold too and levithan is an item again

TalamareFeb 20, 201513 votes

{quoted}

roll back to s2 but keep and re balance the newest champ that mean tri atmast warmogs back darius having his full reset again armor being useful FoN being back hearth of gold too and levithan is an item again

Garbage champions by CertainlyT definitely contributed to this awfulness

DreadlocksFeb 20, 20157 votes

He already made the point that Riot doesn't care about what the community wants. Why would he waste his time explaining to them?

JevelFaithfulFeb 21, 20154 votes

Not that I disagree, but could you offer some ideas of how you think they could get back on the right track? That'll make for a much more interesting discussion (with other forum-goers, not expecting a red to post on anything serious).

^this. The original thread that started the whole MK comparison was nuanced enough. But This thread is exagerating. They didn't dump it down that much.
Also, the item pool size was always the same, if at all, it's probably better now. At least as far as supports are concerned. Not that sure about the others. But I think most ADCs have at least 2 option for each of their item. Which can't be worse than s2-3 1-and-true build path. Also, the comparison between tank-ad item makes no sense. You could argue taht some classes (assassins and adc) are a lot better than others (Let's say tanks). But the problem's not that items are imbalanced, it's that classes are imbalanced and Riot seems to like it this way. Also, who the fuck cares about GhostCrawler. Last I heard, he actually wasn't in complete control.

That being said, You have good points about strategic counters being phased out and overloadded new kits. And that the game is in a pretty fuck'ed up state right now.

FalconPawwwwnchFeb 20, 20159 votes

It's because Riot doesn't want League to be a strategy, they want it to be a mechanical one, notice how they keep removing hard counters, targetted CC, burst, and keep focusing on mobility and skillshot dodging etc

Because of this the playerbase has this mentality that every champion should be able to counterplay every champion (news flash, that's not how strategy games work are or supposed to)

Because of this there's no such thing as "strategic diversity" and never will be. As long as they keep trying to make every champion have counterplay the only champs that will be used are the ones that are the most overloaded

KaisadiIIaFeb 21, 20152 votes

You could counter, but you had to use your brain and not your hands to do so. Malzahar has a targeted long suppression. How do you used to counter him? Take Cleanse or build Quicksilver sah. How do you counter it now? "Oh targeted CC no counterplay" > Rework > Now is dodgeable (?) by Lee Sin's mobility -> GG WE BALANCED AGAIN YOU DON'T NEED BRAIN TO COUNTER YOU JUST NEED GOOD REFLEXES AND A GOOD PC.

I remember long time ago when Cleanse was a spell you saw every other game, because it was part of the strategy when the enemy had reliable CC. Now we see Flash + Ignite/TP/Heal/Exhaust every game, 9 or 10 champions with a dash per game, and so on, because the game is no longer about outsmarting but instead is about outplaying.

Some time ago people did not complain about stealth, because stealth had zero skill implications but instead it was about strategic and outsmarting the opponent. Now that people are used to not thinking when playing this game, RIOT says that stealth is "obnoxious" and has "no counterplay" (as always). So they'll end up destroying all the stealth mechanic (eve is admittedly kept nonviable and RIOT will destroy her even more with that Mandrake ward).

Cuz1972Feb 20, 20156 votes

Name me the strategies that existed previous to this season.

SwtosFeb 20, 20158 votes

naming strategies is impossible. Strategy is thinking and patiently waiting to outsmart your opponent. Nowadays that is considered unhealthly no counterplay, while Zed diving at level 6 and killing you(plus escaping) is considered op lcsbigplay.

SalzigorimandoFeb 20, 201510 votes

"Turtling", "Aiming for Lategame Comp", "The Splitpush", "Backdooring", "The Carry Shotgun", "Siege-comp", "Protect the Kog'maw", "Duo Top", and, for some reason, everyone's favorite when their team is losing, "All Mid".

Maybe 3 of those are actually still viable now, not counting "All Mid" of course, and people will think that's a good idea forever.

8bj2yMEanNFeb 20, 20155 votes

Agreed league is just pick assassins and win

SluicewayFeb 21, 20154 votes

I agree, in part, with this post. League seems to me to be floundering for an identity among so many other moba games: Dota 2 is more serious competitively, the new Heroes of the Storm does different game modes with varying objectives well, and LoL seems to be trying to straddle both at once and not doing either very well. To make the competitive aspect more viable, they need to address major balance issues (the boards are full of them) and questionable champion reworks, not a little at a time, but a serious restructuing of the game. If, however, they are set on being a casual and accessible game with a fun variety of game modes, they need to commit to that, for starters, by not limiting the modes to the short periods they have been (turn them all on and leave them on). Doing that, however, would mean that the focus of their balance teams would have to be keeping tabs on the variety of exploits that pop up in the different modes.

Personally, I am in favor of the second option. Not being a competitive person, I would rather play these fun modes with their different quirks and strategies and have fun with the game than join a team or climb the ranked ladder.

deadlychuckFeb 21, 20152 votes

What heros of the storm does really well is offer variety in their champions. Not across multiple heros, i mean on the same hero. You can pick to be very teamfight focused, objective focused, pushing/siege focused, or farm focused. Each character has about very specific ways to play them, then at least 5 other ways to play them to a niche

Whispering TideFeb 21, 20154 votes

I agree with turrets. I had something happen to me earlier: I was Quinn vs Irelia, both 0/0/0, I had BotRK and a Zeal, she had a Trinity Force and T1 boots. She legit jumped on me, 100-0 me under my tower, as in, the entirety of it was under my tower, and flashed out on about 60% hp. I'm not even going to go into the dives I've done as Talon. The biggest issue is that these happen before anyone is fed and before late game. If you enter a turret without a massive advantage, pre 5/6 items, I don't care who you are or who the enemy is, the matchup should be irrelevant. The. Turret. Should. Murder. You. Like, straight up just wreck your life.

Mobility creep worries me too.

Item pool is small, yeah.

ARCDASHFeb 21, 20152 votes

Isn't Irelia one of the older champs in the game? How is hiding under the tower strategic? Irelia in particular is a counter to squishy top laners.

Whispering TideJun 10, 20151 votes

That wasn't at all my point.

Like I said, I've done similar things on Talon. Things I just shouldn't have been able to do.

Being defensive should be a valid strategy.

NarasimhaFeb 20, 20153 votes

items completely not balanced(tank items useless, ad items broken).

Honestly, this one sentence tells me you really don't know much about what you're talking about. At this point, pretty much all items are fine. Hell, they're even releasing a much more interesting 120 AP item. And no, nothing is wrong with tank items. By themselves, they're perfectly fine. They do what they're supposed to do. And the majority of AD items are pretty balanced too. The ONLY issues have been with Last Whisper, and Void Staff. They're too cheap for what they bring. They need about a 200-300 price increase, and then we'll be set.

SwtosFeb 20, 201511 votes

Actually, I do. Every Role buys pretty much the same items every time. You will not see more than 10 of the AD items being used, the same applies to other roles as well. Now, you can keep on disagreeing with me. Point is, league is over as a game, and is heading over the world of warcraft route. Once this moba outburst ends, so will league.

OhOkYeahFeb 20, 20159 votes

At least 50% of the items could be taken out over night and hardly anyone would notice as long as the 5-6 core items of each category stay.. the game would still be played the same.

One big issue with the items is that they don't change anything. You still play the champ the same way, with the same general tactics, regardless of whether you buy scaling damage items or hp5 items.

deadlychuckFeb 21, 20151 votes

Even though a lot aren't used very often, i'd rather have the option there instead of being removed.

OhOkYeahFeb 21, 20153 votes

Oh yea I'm not saying take them away. Just that maybe instead of reworking champs every other week they should rework more of the items than they usually do. A lot of the "OP" champs could be dealt with through items instead of by nerfing them or having to buff ALL the other champs.

One guy posted a thread earlier with an item idea. There's an active feature to it that leaves a trail of smoke behind you and any enemy champ that gets caught in it has their vision reduced to a certain radius.

Stuff like that could be thrown together and beta tested without having to go through the complicated process of buffing/nerfing champs in response to how some other champs were buffed/nerfed.

KING OF MASKSFeb 20, 20153 votes

Once the MMO outburst ends, so will WoW, right?

You say that League is heading the same direction as World of Warcraft, but that game has survived quite comfortably for 10 years now. I'm pretty sure League will survive as well... for better or for worse.

SwtosFeb 20, 20153 votes

right now, most of wows player base are either inactive or are those hardcore wow veterans. if i was a game designer, i certainly wouldn't want to see a good game end like that. which proves riot does not give a damn if their players are happy, all they want is more rp for a basically imbalanced game.

KING OF MASKSFeb 21, 20151 votes

Do you have a source on the playerbase inactivity? Last I heard Warlords secured 10 million subscribers; that number might've gone down since release, though.

I don't necessarily disagree with you though. I just don't know if the comparison to WoW is that apt.

deadlychuckFeb 21, 20152 votes

I use to play wow, then when it started changing philosophy for the worse i started to invest more time into league. Now league is going down that same road. Obviously the games are very different, but the best way i can describe the similarities in the changes to both would be "linear gameplay". Basically all versatility and player build (in the case of wow talent and gear) decisions were completely removed for the "right" way to play the game. Also there is no counter play, there is simply good play. You don't tactically play around the knowledge you have of the enemy champion, instead you play around your own mechanical skills, which is why a champions like lee sin, riven, and thresh are so insanely strong, their mechanical aptitude comes naturally with just being able to play the champion at all most people don't plan to make these big LC$plays they just happen because the champion is designed in a way which forces it to occur. Having better knowledge of the game gives you no advantage anymore, you simply have to pick a few top teir champions, get good at them, and play them at lot.

Edit: might i also add, that (while i don't know the current sub count for wow) many people did resubscribe because of the promise blizzard made of bring the game back to how it use to be, then failed to deliver. They made a fun game, but it's still nothing like how it use to be.

StephenizgodFeb 20, 20153 votes

I disagree, Armor/Magic Pen (mostly LW and VS) are really unfair right now because they deal extra damage to squishies as well as tanks. They are meant as a counter to building tank but currently they also spike your damage against the other roles. A small price increase wont fix them, their prices would almost need to be doubled, or an alternative is to greatly reduce their stats then add an upgrade to them. This is an imbalance in items though when compared to Tank Item cost efficiency.

Also Crit Chance is not balanced, anything relying on luck and chance is not balanced... its luck... and chance... There is a way for it to still be based on a percent without it being random, i read an excellent post on it and i honestly believe it is how Crit should be. Once Crit stops being whoever is luckier we can start to see ADC builds open up a bit, hopefully. It would also be interesting if Crits reacted with Armor a bit different.

Mandang0Feb 21, 20152 votes

See, I think this would've made for a much more interesting discussion than the OP's post, which can basically be boiled down to "I don't like it because it's bad".

Personally, I think it would be fine if %pen was redone in a way that made carries decide who they want to deal their damage to SO LONG AS defense received the same treatment. As it is, you can always stack health and be just fine, and that would only get WORSE once you change %pen to something like %bonus pen (which, if not straight nerfed, would be at a higher % than it is now to remain viable). If Riot ever addressed health, then maybe they wouldn't need to load the game w/ %HP damage. If Riot took out those non-scaling procs, then maybe Riot could make build-damage-to-deal-damage work, and maybe (just maybe) they could finally get around to the fighter project.

Needless to say, I think the stat fixes run a lot deeper than just fixing %pen, but I'd love to see a thread devoted to that discussion.

deadlychuckFeb 21, 20154 votes

While you're at it, can we remove lifesteal? or at least effectively remove it like they did spellvamp? It's so stupid that a champion buys item 3072 or item 3074 and any engagement or poke that doesn't outright kill them is completely pointless when they heal it all back in 3-5 auto attacks.

DengedenFeb 21, 20153 votes

Yes
Yes, because these kind of things are difficult to balance. If they snowball, they can just face tank you or run up to you without any strategic thinking.
No, your refusal to adapt to anything does not make a champion broken. Your willful ignorance of any nerfs they do receive doesn't either. Let Rito try things out ffs
They erm, removed items for just that reason. What doesn't see use right now? Devourer (problematic), Essence Reaver (meh, blue buff), Ohmwreaker (turrets too weak) and ZZ'rot Portals (still kind of a new thing). Did I miss something?
Oh yeah, because there was never a point in time where tanks crushed the mid/late game. Because there totally haven't been slight tweaks to tank and ad items these past few patches.
Your decision wether you pay attention to vision and/or cooldowns. Riven isn't pick/ban in competitive for a reason, y'know?
Please, as if the community was comprised of nothing but people like you. As if just as many people wouldn't threaten to leave if your demands were met.
Maybe

[...] how about the one response veigars players finally got which was essentially "we are not changing the changes we made to him and we will decide if they are good or not later", pretty much a huge slap in the face consider he was suppose to get compensation.

Just gonna highlight this for proving my point. They're pretty much saying "if the majority of players aren't ok with him after playing him, then we'll do something about it". A neutral response, if anything but of course, you interpret it as you see fit. Ahri got compensation too, not only in the damage department, and she wrecked 5.2. Wanna see that happen again?

The idea behind this game is that it changes constantly. Player input is necessary in the form of gameplay. However Riot can decide which parts of it wants to enhance and what it wants to reduce. There will always be two player factions, for and against, which makes appeasing people pretty difficult. Riot had a good game going for it until it decided to gut snowball. What we are seeing right now is the long term result of that questionable decision.

ARCDASHFeb 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Turrets are practically non existent(Teams will just tank your nexus turrets if one of your teammates dies).

Every thing thats either point and click or requires strategic thinking and positioning to use gets gutted/removed.

Now, you do realize both of these require strategic thought, right? How much damage you can tank, and controlling the turret aggro so no one dies...much more strategic than hiding under a turret and farming.

Same with point and click. With skill shots, you need to worry about minions in the way, you need to worry about jukes, you need to worry about hitting proper targets. It offers much more strategic depth than simply clicking on people. One of the key differences of LoL and Dota 2 is the prevalence of skill shots versus targeted skills, and targeted skills, in Dota 2, don't have much depth past "click on the target once". Even in Dota 2, heroes with skill shots often stand out because there is more depth to them. Untargeted spells allow for a wider range in use and also serve as a weakness to a hero at the same time.

KaisadiIIaFeb 21, 20151 votes

you need to worry about jukes

You need to worry about mobility. Because every single played champion has tons of that.

ARCDASHFeb 21, 20152 votes

Which is why you aim for where they will move. Prediction.

KaisadiIIaFeb 21, 20151 votes

Nope. A decent LeBlanc will wait you to fire your skill shot. She will never waste a dash before it. If you fire a skill shot, she will have enough time to dash if you casted it on her location, or don't dash if you casted it "where she'll move".

ARCDASHFeb 21, 20152 votes

So don't use your skill shot then. Use your other skills, or simply attack her. You have multiple skills.

How would a targeted skill be any more strategic and take more thought than a skill shot? Pantheon's targeted skills don't take any strategy, they're used when they're off cooldown to poke and trade. There's not much reasoning behind their use other than "the skill is recharged". His only strategic option is his ult, which is a long range delayed skill shot.

KaisadiIIaFeb 21, 20152 votes

So don't use your skill shot then.

Of course, When I'm playing Anivia, I'll keep using basic attacks against LeBlanc until I eventually kill her. I'm sure that's how this game works.

How would a targeted skill be any more strategic and take more thought than a skill shot?

You are messing concepts here. Skill shots are not strategy, but skill (I know it's redundant, but still). Strategy is to pick i.e. Amumu + Zyra + Miss Fortune + Malphite + Nami to make a huuuge AoE combo that ruins the enemy. Strategy is to pick Lux or Xerath if you see the enemy picking Veigar. Strategy is deciding if it's worth to counter-jungle enemy red to possibly take level and gold advantage over the enemy jungler, but losing some early ganking potential.

Landing a skill shot, or making a cool Lee Sin LCS play, or picking Zed no matter who your team and the enemy team has picked to just make some kills (because your champion has everything he needs to excel at every game) and then roflstom the whole game, that's mechanical skill.

This game used to be a combination of strategy and skill, of outplaying and outsmarting. Now everything is about to "counterplay" and "making cool plays" (which usually means using dash + dash + dash + dash + QWER).

Veigar is not about counterplay, Veigar is about strategy. He was a insta-pick if you saw the enemy to pick Karthus. Current champion selection is about "Have we the first pick? If not ban Zed and Jarvan" and then rush to pick the most op champions of the moment. Take a look at DotA2 champion selection, or, if you don't like DotA, look for competitive games from Season 1, that's how champion selection should feel like.

The main problem is that this game is not only about dodging stuff, it's also about outsmart and true strategy.