Sona aka Rengar aka Karma

Sunfield·7/31/2014, 9:51:47 AM·17 votes·1,505 views

I just hate seeing the community overeact to Sonas rework. I hate seeing people that post walls of text about her after 3 games. I tell you, once Sona sees some play in the lcs, all this bandwagon train will crash. Its been exacly the same way with Karma and Rengar.

NOW HOLD YOUR HORSES

I'm not saying Sonas rework is perfect. No rework is perfect on the release. She will probably need some buffs on aa range and a small range buff (really small, like 50 units) on auras.

But, people who write wall of texts about her lost identity or say that the rework is fundamentally flawed, have no idea what they are talking about. also, rage posts

34 Comments

Hellioning7/31/2014, 8:43:53 PM8 votes

My complaints about Karma have always been less about how powerful she is and more how completely they changed her despite having no feedback from Karma players whatsoever.

And I'm almost certainly sure that she'll be getting a few buffs in the future. Riot's generally pretty good at keeping their recently reworked champs in a decent state. But I dunno how long it'll take. It took Skarner, what, three to four patches to be in the state he is now? I don't really wanna wait two months for one of my favorite champs to be in a decent state.

Also, if you're going to state 'I have no idea what I'm talking about' I'm going to ask to clarify your position.

J P Hendersnoot7/31/2014, 12:41:17 PM7 votes

There were a lot of complaints on PBE during the rework. Very few of the complaints were addressed. To say the rework is not perfect is an exercise in hypobole.

DreamingOf Peace8/1/2014, 12:12:03 AM5 votes

I'm 95% sure Sona won't see consistent play in the LCS as she stands now. Because right now for her auras to be impactful she needs 200+AP. The only way you are going to afford that is if the enemy team is bad and lets you get ahead. Sona can't all in because her cooldowns are too long, she can't whittle people down because her poke was nerfed. If you build tanky Sona your auras are useless compared to the peel, and cc and utility other supports bring. If you build AP you will be singled out in teamfights as the first person to kill with your flashing christmas lights and base armor and health of a paper tissue. Because her cooldowns were increased the utility of her W and E powerchords is practically gone as well. No you'll see her played a few times as she's tried out. People will realize she's garbage unless she's ahead and not play her again until Riot decides to re re-work her or buff her a year or five down the road.

John Berserk7/31/2014, 12:36:56 PM4 votes

+1 for the bravery.

Also I agree. She's not complete, tweaks need to be made and refinement needs to be done, but once that's finally done, I think she'll be an amazingly awesome and unique experience as far as supports go.

Crove7/31/2014, 6:25:16 PM3 votes

I personally think she is great. I like how she plays way better now. I feel like she is a lot more noticeable.... Surprise surprise that is what they were going for. She may need balance tweaks, but that's what usually ends up happening after a rework. People like to complain a lot, especially when anyone they like gets changed.

OblongOtter7/31/2014, 3:07:14 PM3 votes

Dude to me she's freaking op. From playing as and against her, maxing W and 9/0/21 masteries for myself, she seems like release Braum. Lot's of safety, lot's of chase, lot's of sustained damage, even while building tanky (I had one of the best scores in the game even though I had a teemo adc that kept just standing there and dying) and the only damage item I got was a sheen that I got while dead after they aced us in our base (most of my team fed.) Although she is A TON of fun to play as a support and as a top/mid. Kinda Luluish in the solo lanes.

Tapu Fini8/6/2014, 1:47:09 AM2 votes

Hold on there buddy. The difference with Sona Rengar, and Heimer, is that stripped down their kits and playstyle are very similar to they way they were; the power is in different places, there's different min-maxing, scaling changed, and they may not perform as well with their old builds. Karma, is a new champion, with a fundamentally different kit, a completely different playstyle, and even an altered motif (retaliation). If you want to talk about champion viability, the re-made Karma is viable, but she unlike the others did not retain her identity, so please don't use her as a comparison.

Sona is still the aura-based support that wins a war of attrition and has a killer ultimate. Rengar is still the bestial hunter that jumps on you and ravages your face. Heimer still sits in a turret nest with great poke. Karma is no longer a sustain support with damage (or a burst mage with healing) who enjoys being in the fray, she's a poke mage with a shield, that wants to keep herself as far away from enemies as possible.

Leona is Waifu7/31/2014, 6:29:34 PM2 votes

Yeah, she may need some balance changes, but I think that the rework achieved what Riot was aiming for: clarity and visible power.

YouLostMe7/31/2014, 6:33:56 PM2 votes

My thought precisely. +1 to you good fellow.

Saltzhammer8/1/2014, 2:04:18 AM2 votes

I would agree with you that Sona can still be a good character to play. I went through the shock of playing her again and raged at what league had done to MY Sona. Now after a games I was still able to have good games with her but this is what I found. The style of play must change. Effectively this is a new character because you have to change how you played Sona before to how you play them now. I could be wrong in this assessment and I am in no way a great expert or can claim any great titles. I am however a player and can relate to many others when they our outraged at the change of Sona. Its not Sona anymore. This is like Sona's little sister that nobody wants around.

Pika3108/1/2014, 9:52:55 PM2 votes

I just hate seeing the community overeact to Sonas rework. I hate seeing people that post walls of text about her after 3 games. I tell you, once Sona sees some play in the lcs, all this bandwagon train will crash. Its been exacly the same way with Karma and Rengar.

NOW HOLD YOUR HORSES

I'm not saying Sonas rework is perfect. No rework is perfect on the release. She will probably need some buffs on aa range and a small range buff (really small, like 50 units) on auras.

But, people who write wall of texts about her lost identity or say that the rework is fundamentally flawed, have no idea what they are talking about. also, rage posts

Your words are inherently contradictory of each other, you state firstly that peoples' claims are unfounded and premature. This thought is immediately followed-up by a back-peddling admittance that her numbers are too low and will require buffing, the exact complaint which is shared by the majority of players you yourself created this post to criticize in the first-place. As opposed to the few individuals claiming "lost identity" and "undo the rework", who are considerably less prevalent and far less outspoken.

You claim she needs an AA range buff? Why? No changes whatsoever have been made to her AA range and to claim she needs a buff there completely out-of-the-blue is unfounded and makes me question the validity of this thread in its entirety.

XXnIE66Rui7/31/2014, 8:05:41 PM1 votes

Ehh, I agree people tend to overreact. That much is a given.

But people who write walls of text are usually just extremely passionate about that character, and that's why they talk so much. I think any sensible person should see current complaints as first impression type complaints (and that's likely Riot's current approach, too).

I'd just like to point out that people complained that Vel'Koz was OP and needed nerfs when he was launched, and if he's seen any competitive use, I haven't heard about it. So people can be wrong both ways. The only way to really be 100% sure of the impact of a rework is to push it to live and wait about a month for people to get used to it/pick up on good builds/discover new methods of play/figure out how to play against the new kit.

That doesn't and shouldn't stop people from giving their $0.02 about champions they're passionate about, though.

My only real criticism isn't even the rework itself, but the silence on the PBE. It felt like the Nidalee rework had a lot more conversation going on, and even if it's just to say "we understand but data says otherwise", it helps to know they're reading. The long silence created a lot of anxiety and that seems to have carried over to live. A lot of the exaggerated reactions stem from the fact people have been saying the same thing since the PBE, with no* visible* effect. It doesn't mean they weren't heard, just that they didn't feel like they were.

Mughi of Ruckus7/31/2014, 6:55:39 PM1 votes

A lot of the complaints are actually around the lines of people experiencing/predicting what people here are admitting will probably need some tweaking. Is her gameplay more dynamic? Yes. Is it more effective overall? That's the question that's bugging people. All I can say is that I got blown up a lot and very easily in my one Sona game, though I did enjoy the practice of "tagging" allies. That seems to be in line with what people have been saying was a problem all along.