Can we kill the juggernauts before they become any bigger of an issue?

Matthew100x·Mar 26, 2016·2 votes·838 views

Listen, as i know this is going to get downvoted to hell and back like all my threads normally does.

But can i just ask a question?

Why is it that now a days games are decided by who has the most juggernauts? No not tanks, the new class that Riot created, juggernauts. There are a few that come to mind, and almost all of them are doing ridiculously well. They're semi strong early game, strong enough to pick up a kill or two, and then completely dominate the mid game, before falling off near the end of the game when everyone has full build. The issue is, these Juggernauts do so much damage that the game won't reach end game before it's over. Why? Because these Juggernauts build straight tank, or near straight tank, and still have the base damage needed to cross the enemy team and kill the carries. Too me its just dumb, we all say, "USE CC", but in reality, sometimes its fails ingame. We've all had those games where the thresh misses the hook and the enemy goes straight to the carry, or the CC wasn't strong enough to stop the enemy from getting through. One of the issues in bronze is that people don't have an idea of team comps, usually playing champs that don't have much CC or self peel, often times CC is not utilized in teamfighting.

Here are some of the worst offenders in my eyes.

All of these champions that i just listed, and there are others. Can build straight tank and mow through a team. Whatever happened to the old days where tanks were tanks? In Season 5, yes the cinderhulk meta with Sejuani and a few other tanks were bad, but they tanked and had the cc and were successful. But i see this as worse, beforehand we just had enemies with huge HP numbers that lives a long time in teamfights that had semi decent AOE potential due to cinderhulk and the champion's ability. Now a days you have tanks that may not of had as much hp as they use too, but definitely has more armor and MR. The worst part is that since all of these champions have ridiculously high base damages on their abilities, they can deal a significant amount of damage while still being able to live in the center of a teamfight. If you focus the enemy carry the Juggernaut will annihilate you, same way vice-versa.

Tl;DR: I just want tanks to tank, and not deal a ton of damage while being able to soak a ton too.

10 Comments

redniwediSMar 26, 20164 votes

I don't think you fully understand the difference between a tank, a fighter, a bruiser, and a juggernaut...

True tanks carry through their utility and CC. I don't see Garen or Illaoi carrying just on CC.

Outside of Nautilus and possibly Volibear all the champions you mentioned require damage to stay relevant. Without damage they don't have enough utility to make them a threat, which means they can safely be ignored during team fights and duels. I don't know about you but I would think any champion who can be safely ignored during a team fight is utterly useless.

Sure they could still soak damage, but you need a reason for them to be the focus of damage in the first place. A champions kit should not be balanced around incompetent enemies, after all.

So to make the champions you mentioned into tanks and lower their damage you would have to properly compensate them with utility. That is, unless your goal is to just dumpster each of these champions.

Let's be real, though. I've seen a Jihn outrun me, as Garen, with nothing but his crits and attack speed boots. I had Boots of Swiftness with Alacrity, Dead Mans Plate, Garen's Q, and Movement Speed Quints. He didn't even use CC on me.

If you're letting a low mobility champion get on top of you then you did something wrong.

TrídentMar 26, 20163 votes

I find it more of what team has the most champions like

MasterYi Jax Tryndamere or any of the rageblade abusers

Matthew100xMar 26, 20161 votes

That's a big issue too, but most of the time the rageblade abusers are glass cannons, but i understand that when they build armor, they're a player's worst nightmare.

TrídentMar 26, 20162 votes

eh, usually they get two damage items then go full tank and completely wreck face

at least i don't see many tank yis anymore :P

Critmaster GarenMar 26, 20162 votes

naut and poppy arent even juggs. naut is a tank, and poppy is to mobile to count. she is kindof a mix between bruiser and tank (at least since she can peel well with her ult and knockback).

the difference between tanks and juggs is, that tanks are loaded with cc, have hard engage and peel. juggs have damage instead, but usually need an actual tank to initiate for them and the support of their team to get into a spot where they can carry.

the point of juggs is that theyre tanky melee carries. so get used to the thought. their weakness is fairly obvious with low mobility and their kits entirely restricted to melee. if they dont get in in your face, they do literally nothing.

if they have the right setup and get in the middle of your team or to their desired target, they carry.

Matthew100xMar 26, 20161 votes

The reason why i mention both Naut and Poppy is because they have the same issues as the juggernauts. You can build straight tank and still deal damage due to high base damages on the abilities. I know a really strong poppy build where the only item that you buy that does damage is item 3025 . She can literally get away with building full tank and then go all in on the enemy carry for the kill. I just believe that tanks should tank, not be an actual tank.

Critmaster GarenMar 26, 20162 votes

{quoted} You can build straight tank and still deal damage due to high base damages on the abilities.

thats not an issue, thats literally what juggs are designed to do.

i just explained why. its a matter of power budget. they arent mobile like jax or vi and can break through the enemy frontline right into the backline. so theyre more tanky to compensate.

its easier to shut juggs completely out of a fight. get an anivia wall in your face or be otherwise out of position and you have 0 impact on the game. in return they deal a boatload of damage when they manage to get into the right spot.

they also dont have long range initiate like leona, sejuani, nautilus, or malphite who can lock up multiple opponents at the same time and jump into your face. those are actual tanks designed to initiate fights for their team, to peel and disrupt.

juggs have damage and defense in melee, and thats all they have.

think about garen as a tanky yasuo. because he doesnt have a short cooldown dash, or a windwall, or aoe cc. he has more defense instead.

if juggs didnt have damage they would be nothing but giant chunks of hp that you could completely ignore.

Live2LetDieMar 26, 20161 votes

It's simple. Squish>bruisers>tanks>squish

Matthew100xMar 26, 20161 votes

Not in Most cases, the bruisers tend to win out against tanks. But i'm not talking about bruisers, i'm talking about the juggernauts, which are a much worse offender than a bruiser.

Truly PridefulMar 26, 20161 votes

Most of those aren't even juggernauts, they're fighters or bruisers. Juggernauts like Darius and Garen are pretty easy to kite, but if they get to you they will rightfully destroy you. Poppy is the obly one there that is even close to a problem, but Riot already knows that.