@Meddler @Riot Zyra and the Mage Era

Mansana·12/4/2015, 7:15:48 PM·3 votes·1,043 views

Zyra

So a while back every discussion about Zyra it had been "focused on making her more about plants and plant interactions as a means of having 'zone control' that isn't simply 'here's a large aoe'". So question is what do Zyra enthusiasts want from her? Do you still want to keep her burst rotation of just spamming all her abilities at one moment just to cause one big disruption all at once or actually have high dps levels with Zone control.

I'm only bringing this up because when ever I played Zyra last season, it was all about poke until they engage or until you get a good snare in order for you to unload your combo. Which don't get me wrong is still a very effective strategy but at the same time pretty linear. Granted there are a few of you who like this burst pattern so I would definitely like to hear why you think she should stay the same, rather than what I'm about to suggest.

Usually the big problem she has is that in team fights you hardly have the chance to setup 3-4 plants for your ult because setting up a trap like that seems very rare, only leaving you to have 2 plants up at a time for team fights. There are many ways to fix this issue but finding the right solution is the problem. If Zyra is a plant mage I expect there to be more than 2 plants. Her Q and E are merely utility to help her summon more. Here is an idea I had in mind when thinking about how Zyra could summon more plants without having to wait for more seeds as a resource:

  • Give her W a new passive similar to that of Kennen's or TF's whilst still keeping the active portion. After X auto attacks, her next auto will attach a seed to the target lasting a Y seconds. Her next spell on that target will summon the respective plant. Or if any surrounding plants hit the seeded target, the seed will also bloom. Now I know what you are thinking. Zyra is an immobile mage, it would be too risky for her as a mid range mage to put her self out there and auto. Just to clarify this is mostly for when she is out of seeds to summon more plants. Your spell cool downs are somewhat reliant on that of your seed cool down is. There are many times I have my Q or E up after summoning plants but I keep hold my trigger finger for 2 or 3 seconds cause I know I need that extra plant, so I wait for a recharge time for that seed. I understand that Riot wants a constant flow of spell rotation and summoning of plants rather than all at once so this to me sounds like a good option. It will also help new players understand that auto attacking as a mage mid fight isn't bad especially since plant AI focus those who you auto attack.

  • In addition, I think it's about time we add more flavor to auto attack reliant mages. Focusing on Zyra though, it would be nice to adjust how her plants scale. If we want her to be a high dps type of champ similar to Azir, I think it would be time for Zyra's plants to finally scale with attack speed. Nashor's being a really niche item needs to be explored more by other mages. Firstly it gives her cdr which she hardly builds due to the need to get Liandry's Torment and Rylai's as core rushes. She hardly gets a good amount of cdr from her W till you until you finally hit late game. You could invest in cdr blues but not many pros suggest it. Having your spells scale in dps actually makes them have more zone control and actually make them somewhat a threat to take out. In terms of balance, Zyra and her plants can easily be tuned since they are 2 of 1 entity. With different levers to consider, it could be complicated but there is much more room to balance her.


The Mage Age

Ultimately, thinking about this DPS style of Zyra got me thinking. Isn't it about time Mages get to critically strike? AP items that provide crit? Sounds crazy but having your auto-attack's on-hit magic damage from your abilities get amplified by crit. So far the only Mages that can crit are Anivia and Karthus under certain conditions but they are not considered "crits" per se. On another note, Static Shiv and Rapid Fire Cannon are 2 items in which their bonus magic damage CAN CRIT. This is probably a good way for Riot to redifine the 2 Mage Classes: DPS Mage and Burst Mage. Allowing certain spells to crit but mostly on-hit auto reliant Mages like Diana, Kayle, Teemo, etc. can find new alternative build paths that mage counterpart to a marksman can take place. This could be very game changing so it's probably a bad idea to ask Riot to test it out but adding crit to on hit magic damage or spells to certain champs could create more levers for Riot's balance team. It especially can finally split the two play styles apart and make it easier to nerf/buff a champ or item. Not only that but Spell vamp can be relevant again without much trouble. Just like lifesteal, spellvamp will be able to scale with magic crits. Vlad being a Spell Based mage won't take intrest into crit and certain mages will finally look into spell vamp. Reworks like Akali, Ryze, etc. now have more room to test into. Questions are: Is it too late since Season 6 is almost here? Can this fit under Riot's balance philosophy? But more importantly, is the tech there?

To stir up discussion: What is a mage to you? What should they do? Do you have any crazy ideas to change the mage world?

6 Comments

misfortunas12/4/2015, 7:57:56 PM3 votes

Sorry but the only thing that should not be touched about Zyra is her damage in any way. She literally has it all: DPS, burst, aoe, single target and all that with a moderate range. I do agree that she is subpar, but her damage is one of the highest in this game and should not be touched imo.

MoonBlade9212/4/2015, 7:35:51 PM2 votes

"God no" is pretty much my reaction to what you are suggesting. Crit is IMO a horrible stat, made worse when someone can stack it. LoL is generally extremly bad at balancing Burst vs DPS (Just look at Marksmen, the only one that doesn't profit from crits [Kog] is literally Urgot tier now), and adding crit to the mix would only make it worse, where burst or just safe champs would be stacking it to deal a lot more damage than before, and DPS mages would need items to survive that, which would LOWER their damage.

Kitten of Evil12/4/2015, 8:47:37 PM2 votes

What is a mage to you? What should they do? Do you have any crazy ideas to change the mage world?

A champion with AOE, range, some CC, waveclear, and burst. Downsides: immobility, squishy, mana-reliant, and no HP sustain. Hates gap-closers and heavily relies on positioning.

I bet you can't guess who my mains are (Anivia Brand Velkoz )

Beldair12/4/2015, 7:38:19 PM1 votes

Leave crit to physical attacks. Mages do enough damage without it.

Dominick Destine12/4/2015, 8:20:06 PM1 votes

{quoted}

unload your combo.

on Zyra? /snicker