Why Dota Is Better

Korica Riftaxe·9/18/2015, 2:52:51 AM·9 votes·1,670 views

AKA, a catchy title. But I really do think it's the superior game. Let me explain why.

I have now, over the years, sunk in about equal time in both games. About 2000 matches in League first, and then 1600 Dota 2 games. Having spent all that time in Dota, I tried coming back to play League occasionally and just can't do it. Here's a summary of why.

  1. MOBILITY CREEP I've been on about this for a long-ass time. Here's a link to a thread on the old LoL forums where I delved into the math of Mobility Creep.

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3744640&page=1

The basic jist being, when the game first came out, only about 25% of the Champions in the pool had spells that granted mobility. Today, it's over 50%. I think Dota's, by comparison, is probably less than 10%. There are some INSANELY mobile Heroes in Dota, but the key part is, their mobility is core to their character. They cannot function without it. Many of these character have nothing BUT mobility spells, the rest are just passives.

Also, Flash ties into this. More on that later.

  1. SUMMONER SPELLS (Flash) Again, I've been on about this for a long time. I think Summoner Spells and Runes/Masteries are more or less something Riot should have abandoned a long time ago, but my main gripe is Flash. It's just too good. It's so good that over 95% of all players use it. The entire point of the Summoner Spell system was to offer choice, but it's not a choice, because Flash offers more utility than anything else ever could. Riot could do SO MUCH to rebalance mobility creep and make early laning riskier by just removing Flash from the game and telling the players "Deal with it."

But they seem to be under the impression that if they remove Flash that the world will explode or something. I can't understand it.

Dota 2 has something similar to Flash. It's called Blink Dagger. Want to know why Dota's is balanced and League isn't?

Because you can't start the game with Blink Dagger. It doesn't give you a get-out-of-fail-free card in lane. It's an item, it's expensive, it takes up a slot while offering you NO STATS, only the ability to Blink. Also, it cannot be used if you've recently taken damage. No Flashing/Blinking over walls for you. It's primary usage is to allow initiators to jump into enemies to start fights, and it fits that role gloriously. It's not abused at all in the way Flash is. Spectate any Dota game and you'll only see maybe 1-2 people with a Blink per team. There are many character for whom a Blink Dagger is just straight up a horrible buy, because they can't really make use of it.

  1. MESSING UP

I actually kind of understand this one, I just disagree with it. League of Legends is so much more forgiving of failure than Dota 2 is. If you mess up an ability it's ok, it'll be off cooldown in 10 seconds, and it didn't cost that much mana anyways. Oh you died? Don't worry, it's not a big deal, just come back and continue last hitting when you respawn.

In Dota 2, death has consequences beyond just missing out on experience and gold. You lose gold on death, which although frustrating at times, adds a huge layer of strategy when you realize you can actually use that as a weapon against your opponents. Killing a carry multiple times early isn't about getting yourself gold, it's about taking gold AWAY from the carry. You can literally STOP them from buying an item seconds before they were about to purchase it.

And when it comes to abilities, you can MASSIVELY screw up. Faceless Void's ultimate stuns EVERYTHING inside it, except for himself. He can accidentally stunlock his entire team. I have to admit I found it hilarious when Bard was released and the League community got it's first taste of an Ult that can actually be used incorrectly. You people don't even realize how common those sorts of things are in Dota. Some of the best ultimates in the game have cooldown of nearly 3 minutes and can easily be countered. You have to give HUGE amounts of considering to how and when you use the ability. More on that below.

  1. STATS / SCALING

I never could have guessed how amazingly important the Stats mechanic was until I came back to League afterwards and saw what was misisng.

Personally, when I started League I loved their system. Ability Power was way more fun than "Strength" and "Agility", but over time, League started to shift away from it's original design. Ability Power was supposed to scale for all spells, and Attack Damage was only meant for Right Clicks. Then came Pantheon, and the age of the "AD Caster" followed. Soon Riot just scrapped their idea and said "EVERYTHING WILL SCALE WITH WHATEVER YOUR CHARACTER BUILDS". You do physical damage, you build AD, you do MORE physical damage.

The problem is that this creates stagnant gameplay. If an ability does about half of somebody's health early game, it's also going to do about half of their health late-game; because while they build Health and MR to counter you, you build AP and Magic Pen to counter them, and it all events out to mean ... absolutely nothing, except inflated numbers. Compare this to something like Dota, where a caster's high nukes are insanely powerful early game, but mean very little late game when people have bigger health pools or magic immunity. The nukes have their time and place to be useful, and your objective is to abuse that power while you can, not to just keep doing the same thing all game.

And then there's stats. You never realize how amazingly ingenious they are. It's a brilliant way to balance characters and particularly items. In case you aren't familair, here is how they work. Dota 2 has 3 stats: Strength, Agility, Intelligence. Strength gives health and hp regen. Agility gives attack speed and armor. Intelligence gives mana and mana regen. Every Hero has a unique stat setup of how much they start with, and how much they gain per level. Also, they have a Primary attribute. Each point in your Primary also grants damage.

So you can have an item like Heart of Torrasque (Warmog's of Dota) and yet it isn't overpowered the way League's Warmog's has been for so long. Why? Because 40 Strength is not equally useful to all Heroes. Everyone gets health from it, but only Strength Heroes get damage, which makes it much more useful on that. (In case you were unaware, Dota 2 has a large roster of melee carries, many of them Strength-based)

The key difference is that stats make an item more useful or less useful, but never USELESSS. 40 Strength is still a good deal of health, even for non-Strength heroes. This is as opposed to League of Legends, where you can buy Ability Power and it will do literally NOTHING for your Champion unless they have abilities that scale with it.

  1. MECHANICS / META

I think the cardinal sin of League is the homogenization. All the character just feel so similar now. All the carries play the same. Riot enforces their strict meta with an iron first, shaping champion and item balance to enforce it. If you look at the pick rates in the most recent tournaments (LoL World Champions 2014 and Dota International 2015) you'll find this... Dota 2 has 110 Heroes. Only 37 were NEVER PICKED during the Main Event. If you count the Group Stage, then only 24 were NEVER PICKED. League of Legends had 120 Champs at the time. 63 were NEVER PICKED. Over half.

That's a startling large amount of Champions who are irrelevant.

And the reasoning is understandable. Riot wants the game to be easy for new people to pick up, they want people to spend money unlocking Champions, and they want the game to be competitive, and the end goal is that ANY lineup which fits their strict meta will have what it takes to win the game.

The trouble is, the only way you can achieve that ridiculous dream is to homogenize the Champions into being so similar that they no longer have unique flavor. No carry brings to the table something another carry cannot bring, so the only one you will want to play is whichever one currently has better damage numbers.

I actually had a conversation with a co-worker who plays Dota but has never played League. He was asking what the Champions were like. When I mentioned that most single-target abilities were reworked so that almost everything is skillshots, he became very confused.

"I thought you said League of Legends was simpler? How can it be simpler if you have to aim everything?"

I had to think about that one for awhile, it's a seriously legit question. But I finally came up with an answer.

It's simpler because aiming is the ONLY thing you have to consider. Almost all the abilities in League these days boil down to two little things: it does some damage and maybe some light CC. Compared to Dota 2, players in League have to give almost no consideration to manacost, positioning, timing, or any special mechanics an ability might have. It's just about making sure you hit the skillshot.

Yet again last night, I was trying to play a match with an old friend, and we struggled to put into words what exactly the problem is.

League of Legends isn't simple. There are a lot of complicated things in this game. The trouble is they're just so boring.

I'd like to conclude with a recent article from PC Gamer about why Rubick from Dota represents what's great about the game. (In case you don't know, Rubick is a support character whose Ultimate allows him to steal enemy spells and cast them at his leisure.) http://www.pcgamer.com/why-rubick-represents-the-best-of-dota-2/

48 Comments

Deep Terror Nami9/18/2015, 2:54:36 AM9 votes

Why X game is better than Y game Because you prefer X over Y

That is the only argument there is.

DWT123459/18/2015, 2:58:33 AM4 votes

Says that all champions have no special mechanics

*Looks at the last 5 champions TahmKench Ekko Bard RekSai Kalista *

Lol, no.

ZephyrDrake9/18/2015, 7:05:07 AM3 votes

if you like Dota that much more then go play Dota instead. Why are you here? oh right because you just want attention

disregardable9/18/2015, 2:59:15 AM3 votes

The last time I played Dota 2, Pudge hooked me from the "fog of war", I had no escape, and he killed me instantly. I really have no desire to play after that. As much as the game sucks for ADCs right now, it'll never suck as bad as it does in Dota.

That's a really short response to a really long post. To be honest, there isn't much else to say to it.

Parceval9/18/2015, 8:21:54 AM3 votes
  1. Interesting. Definitely a point that Riot needs to continue to balance, though it softens some arguments in 5).

  2. True, flash is overpowered. I've posted on this matter: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/Fjh0r99x-improve-forgotten-summoner-spells That said, blink dagger is basically a required item... so I'm not sure how that's better.

  3. This is a point in favor of League.

  4. This argument is filled with fallacy. By developing a diversity of scaling trees you allow players to remain relevant throughout a game with a variety of tools. This is actually a weakness I've had with DOTA since it's WC3 days. Perhaps you prefer this environment, but I can say unequivocally that scaling stats promote a wider meta, not less. But even if we disagree on that point, it certainly promotes a more balanced tier of influence. This means that skill has more opportunity to shine than luck.

  5. Your 'never picked' argument is intriguing. Though you're comparing game states a year apart. I'll be curious to see how this year's worlds compares. Of course, what's interesting, is that you're also wrong. A more homogenized game would result in what you're describing, the stricter champion set actually means that certain combinations have a significantly higher chance of winning, ergo, they're different (unlike DOTA). Your aim argument is forced, and completely insufficient, opinion flags are all over that.

Overall, it appears your comments can be easily construed in favor of League (1-1-3). It's fine that you prefer DOTA but these reasons are severely lacking to sway a nonbeliever.

MLDzXnRRR9/18/2015, 5:50:24 AM2 votes

Aside from 90 % of the heroes pool who are like the old Sion , Annie and Garen Dota has better heroes, right...

Items are super expensive and if you die as support being focused every time, you have no items whole game - walking all the time with brown boots and several wards is very fun...

Permabashing has no real counterplay. It's very fun to be stunned from a projectile then permabashed.

Splitpushing is way too easy in Dota, because the map is so big, you can see that they use tp scroll and gtfo before they catch you. Items that are must buy every game like BKB and Blink (even carries get blink, if you don't have escape or need initiation).

The turnrate is like playing with lag, the game feels "SLOW".

RNG!!!! - people claim that DOTA is more strategic - there are things like crits, evasion, chance to stun, chance to ministun.

Manaburn can be annoying, because most skills cost half your mana and if you don't build mana + mana regen as a caster, you are useless.

The pick rate of heroes is similar to this of LOL - visit playdota and see all the threads about fotm op heroes... (seeing every game Sniper or Troll was normal, now is Leshrac + other nukers)

If you count all competetive LOL only stuff like Nasus, Trynda, Heimer is never picked this season, because is too risky to execute (you can see the Chinese and Koreans to play heroes like Yi, Katarina etc ).

There is no surrender and the game may be over 5 or 10 minutes in, if your team feeds, but the enemies don't wanna finish and camp you in the spawnfountain...

Pluses of DOTA : Custom games (which are still not very good atm) Offbuilds are not trolling (If I build AP Corki in LOL, my team will probably report me, but caster Gyrocopter is ok build in DOTA) More items with actives Micromanaging multiple units People are often less toxic than in LOL

Order of Talon9/18/2015, 4:18:25 AM2 votes

It is obvious that you took more time into your analysis than most other people that play Dota and compare it to League. I can respect you for that, and even agree with you on some level. With how mobile the champion pool has become I would have to agree that flash is not that needed, but when the game first came out and there was very little mobility I can see why it was introduced.

However, in my opinion League is the better choice. When I played Dota I was overwhelmed by the instant access to ALL of their heros that I had no idea what the hell I was doing, and the game play itself, again in my opinion, is not new player friendly. You have to sink in hours to figure out what you have to do to optimize your play, and let's be honest here who here but the most hardcore players will put that much time into a game? There are a few things that I like in Dota that I would not mind seeing in league, like the stats of strength, agility, and intelligence, but with how concrete League has become with AD, AP, armor, and magic resist I do not think they will change that anytime soon if ever.

If you like Dota then by all means play what you like, but it is just too geared for highly competitive people that can spend the time to learn the basics. Where as League can be picked up very quickly and is casual player friendly.

RisenDarkKnight9/18/2015, 4:27:20 PM2 votes

While increased hero diversity is nice (as is not having to grind ip), I personally found dota to be WAY less fun then league. Firstly, mana costs seem to be universally way higher than in league (300+ mana for many ultimates late game) and mana regen seems much weaker and harder to buy. This means , many champions are constrained extemely hard by mana, so much so that you often only use auto attacks for 5 + minutes because if you cast a spell or two, you won't have enough mana for a gank/all in. I hate not being able to cast spells a lot as it makes the game extremely boring IMO. Sure there's not a ton of strategy in tossing skillshots back and forth in lane, but it's way more interesting than just using autos. Another issue I have with dota is items are way more powerful. One game, I played crystal maiden support. I didn't do particulary badly, and I built tank items. However, the enemy zeus got fed. Zeus's ult is like karthus ult in leauge. While you can't build ap in dota, you can buy refresher orb, an item that instantly refreshes all your cooldowns. So everytime zeus's ult and refresher orb came off cooldown, I instantly died wherever I was on the map from full health. That is bullshit that can never happen in league. No matter how fed karthus gets, he can't just delete the enemy support from full hp that has built health and mr with only his ult. Another issue is how snowbally dota is. League has comeback mechanics with shutdown gold and farming with abilities from range, gaining a lot of income passively, etc. In DOTA since you lose all your gold on death, one badly timed death while you were saving up for an expensive component can cost you the game with no hope of comeback. Since nearly all of your income is from kills/farm, and the enemy can deny your cs ( buy killing it themselves) you basically lose enormous amounts of gold and get nothing if you're getting zoned in lane. Add to the stonger items in dota (there's a commonly built item that makes the target immune to magic damage/cc for 10 seconds!, items that grant stuns, and a risky items that gives 300 ad (ad is worth about the same as in league so 300 is ridiculous). So a gold lead means even more than league at least for carries. IMO league is more fun and action packed.

Cowgirl Ed9/18/2015, 7:26:38 PM2 votes

i have to say i really liked dota2 when i tried it, but fuck i've been playing this retarded game for a lot of time and i'm kinda fond of it now. a kind of fond you have with a retarded friend or something

HopFrogger9/18/2015, 3:26:25 AM1 votes

I really like a lot of your analysis, but it kinda boils down to this: League of Legends is simpler. The simplicity of it makes the team play more engaging and more rapid. I've played DOTA since it was a mode in WC3, and got over it. Why? Mainly because I disliked the mechanic of hanging out in lane gaining passive gold until it was time to base, while denying exp from opponents. It's just not as fun. The fact that you can get hit by regular abilities a screen away and die immediately is also just not fun. LOL took DOTA's core concept and improved on it.

The one thing I completely agree with you about is the use of Flash. I think the game would be better without it. The fact that you can seriously punish someone for being out of position is slightly lost by having a get-out-of-jail-free card every couple minutes. That said, this further supports the fact that League is simpler. And that's why I play it.

Catastrop9/18/2015, 11:53:13 PM1 votes

I think SMITE is a better than League but you don't see me being an idiot about it.