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Non-Support tanks are finding success only with damage builds.

GelsominoKiller·1/7/2020, 11:33:01 PM·85 votes·18,735 views

For the sake of the argument, let's take out of the list the tanks that can't solo lane nor jungle . What we are left with is a list of champions that have become a rare sight in the game, , and a single exception in the name of , which is a solid pick in the jungle.

In the past years, a worrisome trend has emerged: the most picked tanks are built FULL AP . Building weird out meta stuff is fun and healthy for the game, but in this case it is the symptom of a problem: soaking damage does not exist anymore as a mechanic in this game.

Yeah, you've heard it before: damage is too high. Getting out two rotations in a teamfight doesn't happen since the juggernaut patch. This situation also exacerbates snowballing, kills strategy and hinders variety. Runes reforged, senseless powercreep, questionable balance directions and itemization have all their part in this. Dealing a lot of damage and dealing it first is so important that it dictates even the viability of tanks: let's talk about the remaining members of the class which do see some play from time to time: . Why do those 3 are favored above their colleagues? Ask yourself, do you ever say "fuck, this fed is immortal"... or rather you say "fuck, this fed just... killed me alone while I couldn't damage him enough??"

Currently, is the only good sololane, tank-building tank solely due to inappropriate DAMAGE levels; the rest of the pack is actually more effective as a sturdy mage than as their intented purpose.

In conclusion, I believe it is time for Riot to consider an end for this neverending damage meta. The game is getting extremely stale, and feels mutilated, having not only an entire class, but also the very concept of absorbing damage being unviable for 4 years or so; this is detrimental to the community and to the game so please consider shaking up the things a little.

63 Comments

Infernape1/8/2020, 1:25:51 AM34 votes

I wouldn't even call Gragas a tank anymore. Riot killed tank Gragas by making his W damage reduction scale with AP. The only option is full AP Gragas or bust.

Pendergast8911/8/2020, 1:21:27 AM20 votes

i'd also say that Ornn is the only good tanky tanky because he gets to build item 3373 item 3379

Crescent Dusk1/8/2020, 1:29:14 AM18 votes

Well, part of what makes many tanks bad is the fact that they have zero sustained damage, so a tank jungler will never be able to farm to resist items since anyone can invade and kill you.

Try playing Nunu. Virtually any jungler can kill you because you land a melee snowball+q+e, and a best you do 30% of someone's health while all those skills go on 9+ second cooldowns and all you have are slow, weak autos.

In a vacuum, nunu would be balanced as tanks shouldn't do too much damage, but in a game where everyone does enough damage to outsustain your tankiness, that tankiness becomes pointless short of landing a CC and promptly dying while hoping that CC you landed was enough for your damage dealers to do more than the enemy damage dealers.

Look at heroes of the storm for an example where tanks actually work because they live long enough to be disruptive.

FartWorshipper1/8/2020, 11:08:59 AM10 votes

I'm not sure your proposed changes are economically viable for the Chinese target demographic. Please reconsider your ideas.

BigFBear1/8/2020, 4:29:45 AM10 votes

I recently switched from Resolve Volibear Jungle to Precision Jungle and this works so much better.

If you wanna survive in this meta you need to go dmg. "Kill it before it can kill you" is the new "tank" philosophy.

wolvius1/8/2020, 1:54:59 AM8 votes

So what your saying is give tanks a good mr item to rush against AP toplaners that doesn't gimp them. Honestly bamis cinder upgrade should be a hybrid defense item, it's what a tank has to rush for waveclear while only giving defense against one damage archetype. Hades even Mr items have bad build paths so as a tank your doable screwed building Mr.

Also if a tank is forced to go Mr first they can't properly tank for their team. In most matchs there are normally more ad sources than ap sources so if the tank invests in Mr to survive lane they have sacriced their ability to tank most enemy damage sources.

A good point you made is that it's more viable to go damage than full tank, this goes into another cocept which has become excessively powercreeped which is mobility creep. Newer damage champs have been given so much mobility that they can often gapclose past tanks to kill damage threats. Qiyana Q can make an invisible path to move along, w short dash which can give another stealth q and E point and click dash. Camille can gapcloser from off screen with E then ult target. If a tank even does have tankiness with all the damage& mobility creep all but old designed champs can bypass tanks to get to priority targets.

Another problem is mainly a game design problem,solo lane tanks ideally want to farm in lane to get items for teamfights then group. Bruiser who occupy the same lane as solo tanks want to kill their opponents to snowball and get fed/kill towers. So you have two conflicting playstyles, one just wants to farm and not have to interact with opponent and another who wants to beat their opponents to win as their teamfight and utility are weaker.

You now have to force tanks to interact with opponent something they dont want to do and have to give them tools to do so. Like high base damage yet if they deal more than bruiser and beat them while building tanky bruiser now have no purpose as they cant beat 'tanks' 1v1 and their teamfight is inferior. When runes reformed was released up to the first addition of conqueror we literally saw just that, bruiser couldn't deal with tanks inlane or afterwards as their only keystrokes were either tank (grasp) or PTA which melee had no bonus for and the keystone had received nerfs to balance ranged.

Riot needs to open up good mr items for tanks or make solo lane tank playable in mid lane. Mid has assassins mages and the odd bruiser/adc but most importantly it has different options mages/assassins can try scale, roam, kill laner and importantly impact the map. Top which is more an island can't impact through objectives/roaming unlike mid/bot so bruiser can't do shit if tanks stone wall the lane.

NelsieLisnen1/8/2020, 10:35:14 AM6 votes

As a former Poppy enthusiast, I can safely say I HATE the state of tanks. Solo lane tanks have such low priority now. I would sacrifice all the damage in the world if it meant I can live for more than 5 seconds in a fight.

McKuntalds1/9/2020, 12:07:27 AM6 votes

Tanking as a mechanic died with the juggernaut patch , and progressively got worse after that . Straight tanks are archaic , as the game now centres around 45% CD , non existent mana issues and 5 seasons worth of unrelenting mobility and damage creep.

Strategy flew out the window long ago too. Just pick aphelios , akali , zed or something else completely busted, roam and insta shot people. The closer you can get to a 0.01 second kill the better.

Honestly, the game is a bore right now. You'll have more fun watching Tommy wiseau's magnum opus : "the room" .

e46 Fanatic1/8/2020, 7:52:30 AM5 votes

There are no real roles in this game, that's the problem. 'Tanks and supports' have base stats that are just as strong as an assassin, along with some cc or shield to go with it.

NelsieLisnen1/8/2020, 8:09:32 AM5 votes

Wait, are you suggesting that Ornn <> can solo kill you 100 to 0 in lane? <> That is ridic---------oh, I died.

Nea1041/8/2020, 5:59:31 AM5 votes

They don't care, never cared, and won't care. I said the same exact thing before season 9, and I can bet on it again.

They removed actual tanks from the game long ago, now it's all about damage and hard cc to deal more damage.

Literal IRL Tree1/8/2020, 12:08:41 PM4 votes

Zac is a top tier jungle right now. Naut is a top tier TANK support. Maokai is a perfectly viable top laner currently (now that conq is gone). Cho+Malphite's most common builds are tank. It's fairly common to only hear about complaints about "damage being too high" from the boards. Yes it is higher but it isn't leagues and bounds above what we have seen before season 5-6. (I've been around since season 3 btw)

SirTauntsALot1/8/2020, 7:56:51 AM4 votes

Damage is to high. Make tanks viable again. Period.

consensuaI clown1/8/2020, 10:01:24 AM4 votes

{quoted}

For the sake of the argument, let's take out of the list the tanks that can't solo lane nor jungle . What we are left with is a list of champions that have become a rare sight in the game, , and a single exception in the name of , which is a solid pick in the jungle.

In the past years, a worrisome trend has emerged: the most picked tanks are built FULL AP . Building weird out meta stuff is fun and healthy for the game, but in this case it is the symptom of a problem: soaking damage does not exist anymore as a mechanic in this game.

Yeah, you've heard it before: damage is too high. Getting out two rotations in a teamfight doesn't happen since the juggernaut patch. This situation also exacerbates snowballing, kills strategy and hinders variety. Runes reforged, senseless powercreep, questionable balance directions and itemization have all their part in this. Dealing a lot of damage and dealing it first is so important that it dictates even the viability of tanks: let's talk about the remaining members of the class which do see some play from time to time: . Why do those 3 are favored above their colleagues? Ask yourself, do you ever say "fuck, this fed is immortal"... or rather you say "fuck, this fed just... killed me alone while I couldn't damage him enough??"

Currently, is the only good sololane, tank-building tank solely due to inappropriate DAMAGE levels; the rest of the pack is actually more effective as a sturdy mage than as their intented purpose.

In conclusion, I believe it is time for Riot to consider an end for this neverending damage meta. The game is getting extremely stale, and feels mutilated, having not only an entire class, but also the very concept of absorbing damage being unviable for 4 years or so; this is detrimental to the community and to the game so please consider shaking up the things a little.

I posted exact same thread but was downvoted, finally people realized that soaking damage especially when you are behind and wanna build defensive for your to soak some damage for your team, doesn't exists in this game as mechanic.

Trias0001/8/2020, 3:29:44 PM4 votes

https://i.imgflip.com/3liv80.jpg

HideSide1/8/2020, 7:07:52 PM3 votes

Tanks should be generally successful because they should make you waste time and effort by focusing them and have ability to make it ( to focus them ) as only option enemy has ( aoe CC or peeling ability when it comes to support). The spot of class that beats you because she deals more dmg to you then you do to her, is already taken by juggernauts. There is no reason as to why tanks should do more DMG to others than others do to her, when her strength should lie in tanking itself... If they are unsuccessful, make them tankier not stronger. Amumu DrMundo Malphite Maokai Nautilus Ornn Poppy Rammus Sejuani Shen Sion Skarner TahmKench Zac

8 Lamar Jackson1/8/2020, 9:33:15 PM2 votes

1st of all. Leona can solo lane and can jungle.

Vlada Cut1/9/2020, 12:01:37 AM2 votes

The only reason why Ornn is played tank because his E has insane armor and magic ressist scaling and considering his W doesn't have AP scaling despite dealing his magic damage, it's inefficient to build AP just for his ultimate.

AD Ornn? His Q deals too much damage already, no point in that.

So his damage creep is from his base spell damage and scaling E. Appropriate set up for an actual tank but prehaps the numbers might be overloaded on Ornn.

ÈvilMorty1/8/2020, 6:59:31 AM2 votes

Sion full AD>tank

Summoner SpeII1/9/2020, 2:49:15 AM2 votes

id flame an amumu that builds tank over ap, because i know ap amumu is so much better.

Salty Mc Feed1/8/2020, 4:36:15 PM2 votes

Tank champion are just 6 items slots. Tanks tend to have extremely low scaling with items, some have a tiny amount of health or armor/MR ratios but it's just weak. The tank items that they have to build, because they don't scale with anything or only with defensive items, are only impactful when used as early hard counter to a certain damage types, because they have high defense but not enough health. Late game you get destroyed because of penetration. To be a tank for your team you need item 3193 , champion doesn't matter, you press the button for the active and then you can enjoy a few seconds of actual tank gameplay and try to use it well to buy time for your team.

If you are against item 3135 item 3035 item 3071 and your champion has the option to build damage or items that give both offensive stats and health, that's just better.

It's not just "damage too high" nananah, everything is fucked. Because Riot always comes out with new bandaid fixes that they sell as cool new stuff, when in fact it only exists to cover up their mess. Like item 3193 fix for "tanks", item 3123 item 3076 fix for shitty healing balance. All the healboost items were added because grievous wounds is way too strong. etc etc Then they realize that shields are now too strong, so they give Irelia bonus damage vs Shields and Mutilator for Aatrox... as if 2 champions will bring balance... and so on

Riot doesn't even have any clear goal at this point and if they tell you otherwise they are just lying. It's just PR mumbo jumbo. They only want to add cool new stuff, doctor around a bit, distract, but never actually address any fundamental issue.

Warmas1/9/2020, 2:23:55 PM1 votes

I believe the damage meta is here becuase during tank and ardent metas the viewing of league dropped because at competitve the kills are less making it broing to watch. So I don't think tanks will ever be a base part of the meta anymore if they show up as a base they will go away after a few months. Bruisers on the other hand have kill pressure and are tanky so they could fulfill the tankiness need, but bruisers are currently d**ked by riot. It is really a toplane problem, Renekton was the only tanky champ picked as a base at worlds but shojin got removed so it wouldn't happen anymore. Ornn is picked because he completely destroys melees but still can't kill ADCs/mages. They promised they would fix it but it ended up being a possible 10 extra health regen item 1054 . Bruisers get outclassed by everything, no overall damage nerf to dps classes. If they are afraid that ending damage meta would be bad for viewership then nerf damage, then tanks then if become too safe peel supports. You are left with less damage but still can kill people.

Kadexe1/9/2020, 5:44:31 PM1 votes

LoL is a PvP game, not a PvE game where enemies can be forced to attack you. So if you want to be an effective damage soak, enemies need a reason to attack you. And the only way they'll do that is if you're a threat that cannot be ignored.

Although if the game gets more single-target skillshots, tanks could become more effective meat shields against them.

LordGeovanni1/9/2020, 7:55:55 PM1 votes

Alistar can solo lane tho and it would be super good if he had a decent auto animaion. (even better if his passive was reversed and healed himself more and his allies the base ammount i dont see why its so backwards for a tank that wants to be taking damage) Only one of your tanks that didnt build ap before was Nautilus And even then i was building 2 ap items into tank as a bruiser nautilus.

Cloud2731/9/2020, 10:49:10 PM1 votes

Because if you build tank you're a wet noodle and everyone can ignore you. If you build damage you're actually a threat that can't afford to be ignored.

TO Play Ranked1/17/2020, 4:55:44 PM1 votes

Slightly off topic, but for an off-meta concept of tanks, as supports I came to this conclusion ages ago when needing to 2v8. Just need a decent catch/peel support building as utility battle mage, ending up with 200+ Armour and Magic Resistance. You are not a front-line still, but you can survive alot more burst than think, and acting as Mid-line / The Wall, blocking any threat from diving the Back-line. Runes for Transcendence is a must, as its just free damage later on and helps to rush the CDR cap.

Been doing this with a duo bot lane as: Kalista and either Morgana Semi defensive, great zoning all in, better vs immobile compositions, for clean fast teamfights. Karma Scrappier prolonged small skirmishes, huge up time on zekes, with a rough ratio of 2 ults to 1 zeke. and better sustain with her healing root.

item 3050 item 3190 These two as core, give 90 of each resistances. item 3174 item 3222 Situational MR items vs high AP, and depending what your ADC needs. item 3107 gives decent sustain against the more poke comps, and helps in crutch tight space fights so much for the burst allied heal / enemy damage. item 3109 Situational vs AD, yes I know its less effective on range champs, which is why I say its a later game item for thresh and not a rush. item 3193 Since most of your build is about CDR and tanking for peel, the dmg nerf isnt somethign to worry much about.