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Would it be possible to tone down Riven's "Snowballing Power" for some more "Stable Power"?

DrMarshSwamp·2/10/2015, 1:10:51 PM·26 votes·2,185 views

I don't know if its just me, but I feel right now that Riven (aside from the stupid amounts of mobility she has and how short her cooldowns are) is far too much of a "Snowballing Champion".

Right now it feels like if a Riven does get ahead she gets far more powerful, and for her opponents it is incredibly tough to try and catch up or bring her back down, yet if she doesn't get ahead she feels a little "weak" compared to most other Champions.

Her kit is very "All-In", and in general it feels like if she doesn't get the kill she is screwed or has to run away. This is especially apparent early game where one mistake could mean Riven being left behind everyone else if she isn't careful.

Essentially I would like to see some changes or buffs and nerfs to her kit to give her a little more stability, making her snowballing far less harsh to her opponents but giving Riven more opportunities to catch up to opponents if she starts getting left in the dust.

29 Comments

mi ramfan2/10/2015, 2:48:28 PM9 votes

Riven is extremely hard to balance for a number of reasons, but I think her tendency to snowball is just a symptom of her real problem and not the cause.

The problem with Riven is that she's essentially two completely different champions depending on who's playing her. With some fresh 30 playing her because they liked her on free week, she's a very high risk, high reward pick who takes about 3-4 seconds to burst you down using Q->AA weaving and her ult. With an experienced Riven player who knows how to animation cancel her abilities and autoattacks into each other, she's a super-assassin with an obscenely quick burst combo that deals the same amount of damage as the new player's combo in 1/4th the time.

For that reason, Riot has to be very careful with any buffs or nerfs to Riven. Riven buffs will slightly help the noob Riven while being a MASSIVE help to the pro Rivens. On the other hand, Riven nerfs disproportionately affect bad Rivens while usually not slowing down the pro Rivens too much.

Kingsgrave2/10/2015, 1:51:20 PM6 votes

How do you accomplish this on a character that scales so hard with one stat? She scales offensively and defensively with it and has practically 2 steroids for it. Thats why she is so snowbally.

bigfatman2/10/2015, 7:27:01 PM3 votes

Why would you lower the snowball power on a snowball champion? You said yourself, "if she doesn't get ahead she feels a little "weak" compared to most other Champions." That's the risk of playing a snowball champion. Do you remember Riven, pre-nerfs? When she was a REAL snowball champion? They literally reduced the damage of her Q 50%, and made her scaling better to negate the unreal snowballing that she was doing. She's fine where she is.

BastionKross2/10/2015, 2:58:00 PM3 votes

Riven's offense and defense both scale with one stat, AD. If Riven is able to get AD together quick enough, she's stronger than you offensively and defensively. If she can't get AD together quick enough, she's weak both ways. As long as her kit stays the same as it is now, she's always going to be this feast or famine champ.

Silents4292/10/2015, 6:58:19 PM2 votes

My only honest problem with Riven is the AD scaling on her shield.

Change it to a much lower scaling, or no scaling and I will be fine with her, but the fact she can spam a massive shield constantly to avoid risking herself when she goes under tower or dives a whole team is just stupid.

I can handle massive damage, and mobility but if this beach is going to be shielding all the damage constantly and not have to take risks then, what the hell?

Scramrail2/10/2015, 2:22:46 PM2 votes

One of the more amusing problems with Riven is the absolutely absurd difference between a normal player and a great player. Ive watched videos where people utilize animation cancelling to execute her full combo in less than a second or something ridiculous like that. I know for me personally, I lack the skill to pull something like that off and its entirely possible that I never will. But I love Riven as a champion in pretty much every respect, even with the fact that if you do poorly in lane you become rather worthless later.

I would rather they just left her alone instead of trying to get her into a more "stable" state of affairs. At the very least a Riven can just sit back and far and still be relevant in terms of damage/kill capability later in the game. There are some champions that really need kills in order to amount to anything in the mid-late game who should be looked at first.

I know a lot of people like to talk about how strong she is because of her staying power even with just stacking AD, but honestly even at full build Riven is really squishy. She has a fairly long duration between when she can shield and, like everyone else in the game, is highly susceptible to CC. I think a lot of people just hate the fact that her ult gives her a ranged cone execute, but it is possible to dodge it after all.

OnanThaMan2/11/2015, 1:52:39 PM1 votes

The issue isn't Riven, Tanks aren't really a thing anymore and so most of Riven's counters aren't played really anymore because of this. Malphite and Jarvan were my go to top laners but now i'm at a loss on who to pick, and will be able to make a difference come late game, without a specific team setup(i.e. and Yasuo ).

junglerboy162/11/2015, 2:17:23 PM1 votes

best way to do that is nerf her bonus AD ratios while slightly buffing her late game base scalings.

King Odin2/10/2015, 2:07:24 PM1 votes

Well, I agree for the most part about this. But, I find her easy to keep back if you gank her successfully early on and set her back of her lane opponent. I find the worst case scenario is when a Riven is fed 3/0 in lane and can double kill her laner and his/her jungler if they comes to gank.

So the best option would just be to play safe until ganks come your way and farm. For some reason some people have the mentality that if they die in lane, when they come back try and fight again and they will win. The only time you should do this is if you have your ignite whilst they used theirs last battle but even then you have to play it smartly and know your limits.

I find that champions like Yasuo, Katarina, Lee Sin, Zed, Talon and Akali all suffer from this snowballing kit. But for the most part they are weak laners which can be shut down early like Talon, Akali and Yasuo. I think the point of snowballers is that they are risky since if behind they can often be kept behind. I find Riven personally fun to combat as a lot of Riven's waste part of their combo trying to reach me instead of walking, leaving them vulnerable and easy to fight.

Excitidly Insane2/10/2015, 2:49:16 PM1 votes

Olaf

Why can we not let bullies be bullies and late game orientated champions be exactly that? Anything with early power just seems to get cried about, people should realize that if you pick a champion that doesn't fare well without items and leave a Riven open is like sticking a target sign over your head.

Solidair32/10/2015, 6:02:54 PM1 votes

I think that was kind of the point with her most recent "rework", right? To cut down on her need to get ahead. And I think it worked, but maybe not well enough?

O Fallen Scholar2/11/2015, 3:34:58 AM1 votes

They already did that with Q.

Less snowbally early game and have to think when to trade and not shove minion wave or take minion damage.

Play some games is Diamond league. U will see waht I'm talking about.

With old Q I would go ham every time it was up because it did so much damage and I did not care about minion damage or enemy trades. I just won every trade.

Krys Star2/11/2015, 9:31:38 AM1 votes

Give her mana to gate her spammability, or remove the knock up from her Q so that you have more time to react and counteract. Bim, bam, it's done. I wish. :( I hate the very existence of this champion.