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Vi's ult doing a little too much with too little counter play

Paintank··3 votes·876 views

I feel like vi's ult does a little too much while adding too little to her counter play.

In the description, her ult states:

"Active: Vi targets an enemy champion and chases it down. She performs an uppercut upon reaching it, dealing physical damage and knocking it up for 1.25 seconds. While charging, Vi is immune to crowd control and will knock aside enemies in her way, dealing 75% damage to them. Range: 800"

So, if you're within 800 units, she will hit you hard, CC you, allow her team to hit you, and set her self up to not only cut off your escape (because it also places you in front of her) but set her up to do the remainder of her combo and there's nothing you can do to stop it. I have a very big problem with this. This, in and of it's self, lacks counterplay. The each piece of it , by it's self, isn't too powerful, but everything added together is. The only other ability that is like this is malphites ult. The only difference is, malphites has lower base numbers, is AP, lower scaling % wise, and (this is the most important part) not targeted. I would also like to point out that this is longer than any ADC's range (except for twitch when he is using his ultimate.)

Conclusion: Targeted abilities that CC, do high damage, and can't be stopped should not exist. When you can't run away, avoid, or stop them it's just unfair.

Solution: keep the 800 range if you want, increase her missile speed (the time it takes to get to them), and make it a skill shot. Either that or allow her to be CC'd and up the damage on it slightly while decreasing the CD of it if it gets interrupted. Maybe set the CD to 15 seconds if it gets interrupted.

As Always, suggestions/comments are encouraged and welcomed.

7 Comments

12tales2 votes

Targeted abilities that CC, do high damage, and can't be stopped should not exist. When you can't run away, avoid, or stop them it's just unfair.

I'm curious what you think of Ryze.

Anyways, I recall a Riot developer saying that they felt every champion should have a reason to be picked - Vi's reason to be picked is that she brings the most reliable single target lockdown in the game. If Vi were too powerful (she's not), I'd rather see the rest of her kit hit.

Worgslarg3 votes

I'm curious what you think of Ryze.

Or malzahar.

I dont personally feel her ult is too powerful.

Phoenix Kotori 2 votes

Conclusion: Targeted abilities that CC, do high damage, and can't be stopped should not exist. When you can't run away, avoid, or stop them it's just unfair.

Meanwhile Warwick LeeSin both do high dmg, apply CC, and can't be stopped. (Well warwick can, but only by team mates with their own CC) And have significantly lower CDs than Vi ult.

There are other offenders as well TristanaNautilusLissandra MalzaharAnnie ult comes to mind, she is hardly the sole offender of this.

Paintank1 votes

Conclusion: Targeted abilities that CC, do high damage, and can't be stopped should not exist. When you can't run away, avoid, or stop them it's just unfair.

Meanwhile Warwick LeeSin both do high dmg, apply CC, and can't be stopped. (Well warwick can, but only by team mates with their own CC) And have significantly lower CDs than Vi ult.

There are other offenders as well TristanaNautilusLissandra MalzaharAnnie ult comes to mind, she is hardly the sole offender of this.

That is true, the bottom set of champions do have abilities that are like that. However, they don't have the CC + damage in conjunction with the range, and tankiness that is vi. The top set of champions, while they do have high damage and CC are not even close to the same. Lee is a dragon kick which he has to be right next to you to do. You could flash away or you could slow him and run, dodge his skill shots etc. It's tough, but you can do it. WW, while he does have a suppression, you can CC him and stop the majority of it. Suppressions are nothing more than dot's that happen over the duration of CC. It doesn't happen all at once like vi's. You can stun him, you can run from him, you can get away with him. Not with vi, regardless of what you do, you're getting ulted.

Phoenix Kotori 1 votes

However, they don't have the CC + damage in conjunction with the range, and tankiness that is vi.

Vi isn't **that **super tanky unless she builds tank in which case her damage output is dramatically lower.

Vi ult:

200 / 325 / 450 (+ 140% bonus AD) dmg 800 range

Naut ult: (And he is much more tanky than Vi naturally.)

200 / 325 / 450 (+ 80% AP) dmg 825 range

Malz ult:

250 / 400 / 550 (+ 130% AP) dmg 700 range

Trist ult:

300 / 400 / 500 (+ 150% AP) dmg 550-703 range

Annie ult:

210 / 335 / 460 (+ 100% AP) dmg 600 range

Only lissandra's range is really that much shorter than Vi's.

The top set of champions, while they do have high damage and CC are not even close to the same. Lee is a dragon kick which he has to be right next to you to do. You could flash away or you could slow him and run, dodge his skill shots etc. It's tough, but you can do it.

Lee has 375 range on his ult. hardly right next to you especially when he can safeguard to minions or a ward and prevent you from doing that, ignoring q, and only counting safeguard he has basically a 1075 range because of ward jumps, there is no counter play to that, it's exactly the same as Vi ult, except he pressed one more button.

WW, while he does have a suppression, you can CC him and stop the majority of it.

If your team is around sure, but if he counter jungles and duels the jungler, ganks top or mid, or makes a pick; it's the same as Vi ult basically.

XxXDarkSideXxX2 votes

By A BV, O Look Counter Play... Buy A Zyhona, O Look Counter Play.... Look A Idiot, 0 Counter Play....

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

vi has this lack of counterplay, because it is lack of counterplay to compensate for having a basic skill as her ult

if you could stop her it would be like a simple dash which would fail 100% of the time cause its a slow dash

it has to be an ultimate so they gave it something ultimate, unstopability

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