That moment you realize Last whisper is efficient at every situation.

KaisadiIIa·3/15/2015, 5:48:52 PM·58 votes·8,422 views

As the title says: Last whisper is extremely gold efficient at every situation. Just look at the graphic taken from League of Legends wiki: when beyond 200 AD (which every AD can reach at mid game), Last whisper is gold efficient even against targets with 50 armor like a Syndra or Tristana could be.

Last whisper shouldn't be core item for every marksman to work, Last whisper is supposed to be a situational item you'll pick if an enemy is abusing stacking armor, but currently is a staple on every marksman build, even against teams with no tanks.

I can't say anything more, since I have no idea how this item can be reworked to keep its original purpose without making it a staple on every marksman.

138 Comments

Wheatloaf3/15/2015, 6:47:38 PM14 votes

Change Last Whisper and Void Staff to work off % bonus armor/mr instead of total. Riot was even talking about doing this however many months ago, I have no idea why they haven't done it yet.

Mathbalnase3/15/2015, 6:21:10 PM11 votes

Efficient as compared to what, though?

I don't feel like reverse-engineering your math, so please show how you arrive at your numbers.

SmokingPuffin3/15/2015, 6:22:40 PM4 votes

Last whisper shouldn't be core item for every marksman to work, Last whisper is supposed to be a situational item you'll pick if an enemy is abusing stacking armor, but currently is a staple on every marksman build, even against teams with no tanks.

Why? You might want it to be an explicitly anti-tank item, but it hasn't ever been that in the game.

item 3035 is currently the item Riot is using to ensure games end. Completing your IE/Shiv or PD/LW triple is intended to be a huge power spike that lets you force objectives if you get there first.

What good thing happens if LW becomes a specialist anti-tank item? Seems like tanks have enough problems without a "this thing makes you not viable" waiting for them if they ever become good.

I can't say anything more, since I have no idea how this item can be reworked to keep its original purpose without making it a staple on every marksman.

It would be easy -- change from x% armor pen to y% bonus armor pen.

ElJanitorFrank3/15/2015, 9:18:04 PM4 votes

Something interesting, buying more and more armor actually diminishes the value of the armor. And therefore the LW. Armor is a %reduction of physical damage, correct? But the %reduction per point of armor greatly reduces the more armor you have, for example:

Having 100 armor is 50% damage reduction from physical damage (roughly? Been a while since I checked values may be off but the jist is there) Having 200 armor is 75% damage reduction from physical damage Having 300 armor is 87.5% damage reduction from physical damage (If I did the math off the top of my head right).

So theoretically, the LW seems to be getting more value because you are penetrating more armor. But the top layer of armor you are penetrating is basically worthless because that only accounts for the 12.5% damage (Obviously depends, and I know that doesn't follow the percents I gave) reduction that champion has, not the 50% damage reduction. Meaning, the more armor you have, the less useful your opponents last whisper is. Ironically, the item that is designed to counter armor, is countered by more armor.

This almost never comes into play unless you have a ridiculous amount of AD on your team (I went up against a team with all AD, got about 470 armor on Garen) but I thought I'd waste about 5 minutes of my time and another 2 minutes of yours.

LoRdJeSuS69694203/16/2015, 10:51:06 AM4 votes

Gold efficiency is a bad way to look at it. You need to compare it to other items. If you are only playing against 50 armor targets, I'm pretty damn sure another PD or a Youmuus is going to far out-efficiency a LW, even if the LW is still technically "gold efficient."

Tis a nice day3/16/2015, 5:01:31 AM4 votes

Note: Almost ALL heavy AD/ADC centric items are gold efficient relative to their base components even without any of their additional effects.

All values retreived from the LoL wiki

Infinity Edge - 102.1% gold efficient (without passive) Bloodthirster - 113.7% gold efficient Phantom Dancer - 123.1% gold efficient (but makes up with a less impactful passive) Black Cleaver - 92.3% gold efficient (but has up to 25% armor shred) Maw of Malmortius - 92.5% gold efficient (cost efficient at 86% health with a total damage+shield cost efficiency deemed at 165.19%) Essence Reaver - 117.1% gold efficient Mercurial Scimitar - 96.75% gold efficient (with a game saving active)

And then you have Last Whisper at 62.6% gold efficiency

tl;dr EVERYTHING is efficient at almost every situation, not just item 3035 .

John Berserk3/16/2015, 10:51:44 AM3 votes

I feel like they should lower the amount of AD and AP both item 3035 and item 3135 give by a significant amount so the focus of the items are on the actual penetration they grant the buyer.

To do this however, they'll likely need to create new items that give some small amount of penetration and/or AD/AP to build into these items, because the current build paths dont allow for a lot of wiggle room in the "lowering the AD/AP" department. Maybe items that give 15-20% armor/magic pen and little to no AD/AP?

Hypothetical new build paths:

item 3035 Last Whispher

Pickaxe (875g)
- +25 AD
% ArmorPen item (~400g??)
- +15% armor penetration
1025 gold

item 3135 Void Staff

Blasting Wand (860g)
- +40 AP
% MagicPen item (~400g??)
- 15% magic penetration
1035 gold

Basically, LW and VS would cost the same and give the same % penetration, but have lower AD and AP, equal to the amount Pickaxe and Blasting Wand give respectfully.

Note: This is pretty much my first attempt at item design, so it may not be the most balanced (probably far from it lol), but I hope my point is clear here: I think these items should be purchased for the penetration they provide, and the amount of AD/AP given with them should be minimal so their efficiency is'nt as through the roof as they currently are.

Tin Tarantino3/16/2015, 3:58:49 PM2 votes

How about that other moment where you realize not building armor means the ADC can build a blood thirster instead of last whisper? Gold efficient or not, there are better items vs squishy targets.

Oleandervine3/15/2015, 9:18:48 PM2 votes

I personally think that Last Whisper is a bit excessive when there are other anti-tank weapons like Black Cleaver, Yomumu's Ghost Blade, and Blade of the Ruined King. Combined with any of these items, and tanks are just useless. Same goes for Void Staff. A tank should be able to do his/her job without crumbling like a wet tissue in 3 seconds, and with the amount of champions with %HP shred and tank busting built in (Kalista, Sejuani to name some, Vayne to a lesser extent), that just compounds the issue that tanks face when their defenses become invalidated. There shouldn't be 20 counters for building a counter to a type of damage. If you're suffering against high AD opponents and build to withstand them, they shouldn't have so many options to obliterate you for trying to counter them.

Spacesuit Spiff3/16/2015, 1:20:10 AM1 votes

"Ignores 50% of BONUS armor" or something similar. There, fixed.