Boards›Gameplay

Squishy supports are already in a bad place...with the PBE changes, they are further marginalized

Cameran·11/5/2015, 12:22:23 PM·12 votes·1,289 views

For all the talk of "champion diversity" right now, the support role is being grossly overlooked. Right now, you basically should play Thresh/Braum/Ali/Tahm, with some matchup dependent niche picks in Annie, Leona, Soraka, and Blitz. This is mostly regarding solo queue - professional play sees even less diversity.

Most of those champs have something in common - natural tankiness and at least one cc (plus a huge helping of utility in most cases. Annie diverges from the rest because she has the cleanest initiation (flash bear beats pretty much everything) and Soraka is really only relevant because she dictates the lane matchup through her selection.

Nami, Sona, Zyra, Janna, and the like have basically fallen off the map, and nothing on the PBE helps them. In fact, the additional early AD, shift of power to marksmen, and the new "call for help" changes all make them even easier to kill (poking as the support is harder and getting poked in return is much more punishing). Is this where we are supposed to be, with an entire class of champions basically unplayable outside of casual games because another set of champions totally invalidates them?

TL;DR: why is "tanky ball of stats with cc" the only thing you should play support as and is there anything that can be done to fix it?

25 Comments

Count Chockula11/5/2015, 2:55:24 PM5 votes

As a support main, i believe that squishier supports (Sona Nami Zilean) aren't picked because it requires a different mindset from the ADC. When playing a tankier support Nautilus Taric Alistar), the support can afford to take a few shots to the face and not have it be the end of the world -> the ADC can play more aggressive, knowing that big brother will step in to meat shield or cc if they get in trouble.

On the other hand, playing with a support not made of H.A.M Caitlyn : Don't go in! Leona : What, someone say go in?? Leona : CHARGE!! means that both the ADC and the support need to pick their trades much more carefully and play a little more passive in the laning phase. If you can find an ADC who knows how to play something other than the typical "get I.E., go hit things" build, you can make several champions EXTREMELY viable (including throwing a lot of curve balls).

e.g. Taraka: ADSoraka and Taric

disregardable11/5/2015, 12:47:54 PM5 votes

Morgana and Janna are played more than Soraka. Janna wins just as much, Morg's winrate is still at 50%.

Daetnas11/6/2015, 9:24:11 AM4 votes

Some of you are talking about mana regen buffs, yet all I see are mana regen nerfs on the PBE;

With a 3 mana pot start you currently have 300 extra mana from level 1.

On the PBE they removed mana pots but gave supports 0.5 extra mana regen per second. That's 30 mana per minute, which means it only breaks even by the 10 minute mark, aka the point by which the laning phase is practically over.

They buffed the mana regen on Frostfang, but again, unless you're fed, Sightstone (note that they removed green wards so you can't even delay your sightstone purchase) is a higher priority in your build than the tier 2 gold item, so you won't get that before level 6 either.

Most supports need mana mostly in the earlygame laning phase, which the PBE changes made worse, not better.

Sire Hippington11/5/2015, 2:50:05 PM3 votes

don't underestimate the changes to the spellthievs line, supports base manaregen and the masteries. Most squishy supports i've seen on PBE performed extremly well. The new frostquiens is really powerfull, the improved twinghost-active is awsome, and 150% increased mana-reg means your mana sustain is nearly on grail-level, while still offereing good gp/10 and some ap+cdr for not to much gold. Also, the lowered health on runic shield aswell as higher costs on pots make it far easier for you to poke melee supports out of lane.

Archon X11/5/2015, 12:24:41 PM2 votes

Janna will never be weak as long as her shield at level 9 gives 50 base ad to an ally irrespective of her AP.

manbearswine11/5/2015, 7:58:41 PM2 votes

{quoted}

For all the talk of "champion diversity" right now, the support role is being grossly overlooked. Right now, you basically should play Thresh/Braum/Ali/Tahm, with some matchup dependent niche picks in Annie, Leona, Soraka, and Blitz. This is mostly regarding solo queue - professional play sees even less diversity.

you're underrating soraka and janna here,and overrating leona and annie(and arguably even blitz,as he doesn't work well against experienced adcs/supports),there's also morg,but she's not particularly squishy(her base stats are high).

Most of those champs have something in common - natural tankiness and at least one cc (plus a huge helping of utility in most cases. Annie diverges from the rest because she has the cleanest initiation (flash bear beats pretty much everything) and Soraka is really only relevant because she dictates the lane matchup through her selection.

That's not it really. Tank supports are just op,plain and simple,the non tank supports that work are tank counters,tanks are simply so op that their counters merely draw even with them,and don't actually counter them,but still,they work.

Nami, Sona, Zyra, Janna, and the like have basically fallen off the map, and nothing on the PBE helps them. In fact, the additional early AD, shift of power to marksmen, and the new "call for help" changes all make them even easier to kill (poking as the support is harder and getting poked in return is much more punishing). Is this where we are supposed to be, with an entire class of champions basically unplayable outside of casual games because another set of champions totally invalidates them?

Well tp nerfs should help,as they are easier to gank so less pressure is something they appreciate more,but then again talisman is nerfed,so yeah,soraka janna and morg will probably survive,but everyone else will be in an even worse spot than they are now.

TL;DR: why is "tanky ball of stats with cc" the only thing you should play support as and is there anything that can be done to fix it?

Did you just call thresh,the most overloaded piece of shit in this game a "balls of stats"? Don't ruin a legitimate complaint with stupid buzzwords.

Yes bot lane diversity has been shit,yes tank supports are overpowered and completely dictate the lane,yes thresh has been way too strong for way too long,and yes,doing something about it is overdue.

And to anyone wanting to reply about winrates,go die in a ditch first.

Boomerangbro11/6/2015, 8:11:55 AM2 votes

Or you could just play Bard and peel really hard for your carry.

CasterGilgamesh11/6/2015, 1:56:39 AM1 votes

[zombie-nunu-bummed] i weep for my soraka who will be invalidated by that grievous wound item on every ad champion.....

Munqaxus12/18/2015, 9:59:05 AM1 votes

I agree, tanky supports are so much more useful than poke supports. With lifesteal the way it is, most of your poke is negated before you run out of mana. Also, plan on be killed over and over again as a poke support because everyone will go after you. At least with a tank support you can stay alive long enough to provide a meat shield to someone.

theshockwave8511/5/2015, 12:39:55 PM1 votes

I play Galio support and as long as i have an adc who knows their role we usually win lane or get fed... but no one plays galio anymore and if they do its mid lane...

Linthe11/5/2015, 8:00:46 PM1 votes

Soraka is weak?? I thought she was toxic... That is what all those other threads said.