Should we still have faith in Riot?

Sluiceway·10/13/2014, 3:04:30 PM·41 votes·5,013 views

Browsing through the most active and upvoted threads on the boards, a trend is beginning to emerge of players pointing out oversights, mistakes, and obviously wrong things Riot is doing to item choice, champ balance, and champion reworks. I have personally participated in the argument that the Soraka rewrork is based on false premises and violates Riot's claim that they will not use reworks to dictate how we play our champions (in this case, using the rework to force Soraka out of solo lanes). A common thread I have observed in these growing number of posts is that Riot refuses to listen to the player base, and defends their missteps as if they were the right thing to do for the health and longevity of the game. So, as the title says, should we, the players, still have faith in Riot Games to do what is best for the players and the game?

I, of course, answer no. The way things are going, I see the champions becoming increasingly homogenized, and Riot has adopted the attitude that they made it so it is good, and will admit no mistakes, even when they are obvious, so correcting them is not even a possibility.

P.S. I don't count the complaint threads that beg for nerfs to any champion after the player has lost a few games to him/her. This, in my opinion, is part of the problem. A champion is not in need of nerfs because someone played it well. What is lacking in this situation is the ability of the player asking for nerfs to learn to play against that champion. The alternative, to nerf or rework, is to punish players for being good at a champion.

Edit: here is a poll thread, made by DaejinTye, on the subject for anyone who wishes to participate: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/aek2icnM-poll-should-we-have-faith-in-riot. Also, some responses focus solely on my issue with the Soraka rework, but this is merely the one that most annoyed me. Yasuo, Lucian, and Kha'zix, all get hit repeatedly, and Cassiopeia got significantly weakened as well, it seems (though I don't own her, so I can't say from experience), and there are things like this http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/xPwbgUIX-why-does-kayle-have-boob-armor or this http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/uQy6qIRl-the-real-reason-well-never-see-east-cost-servers. Meanwhile, Riot puts out custom game modes with increasing frequency, as if to distract from how they are running LoL into the ground.

98 Comments

Pryotra10/13/2014, 3:19:50 PM42 votes

As a season 1 veteran, I've stopped caring.

Back in S1, Riot used to actually listen, and do their best to stick to promises. Over the years, they have changed into just about every other video game company. Lots of rhetoric, and while they do try to maintain that illusion, they simply stopped being the Old Riot. They no longer listen, and they no longer give any sh!ts about promises they made.

So I no longer see any reason to hold my hopes up that they will turn back, as they have clearly shown us that this is their game, and they will do with it as they please. So no, don't trust Riot anymore. Just play the game like you play any other game, and hope they don't sink their own game.

Soleka10/13/2014, 4:35:12 PM16 votes

and looking at my post so far, I am going to take an unpopular stance on this....

actually I've found lately that the player base is being really whiny. "Why did you change Sion???? he sucks now!" from the one or two players that actually played Sion regularly. They are giving him a chance to actually be played, and to clean up his kit from an old design philosophy to a new one. I like that, I like that Riot is constantly tweaking things. As for input, who cares, at the end of the day it's their game. They are the experts when it comes to the lore, and champions of league. They look at the hard numbers of things and do adjustments. They retconned out a story element that was cool early on that actually became a hindrance to them, that is great! Retconns usually are a thing of last resort. When you have gone so far down the wrong road that you have no other option. They probably had internal struggles on how to handle the omnipotent group that is keeping the peace.

MrBuffington10/13/2014, 5:00:15 PM15 votes

So, as the title says, should we, the players, still have faith in Riot Games to do what is best for the players and the game?

I'd say so, it's in their best interests to try. Are they going to follow through to every ounce of feedback they get? Of course not, that's impossible, a lot of feedback contradicts other feedback. Even suggestions that get, say, 1000+ upvotes (I've never seen this, but it's possible I suppose), would represent far, far less than 1% of the playerbase, where changes they make affect 100% of the playerbase.

The way things are going, I see the champions becoming increasingly homogenized

I don't see where you're getting this; most reworks and champion releases I've been seeing have been geared towards giving a champion a unique identity. Azir and Gnar are incredibly unique, Soraka has unreal healing potential, Sion has a lot of new elements in his kit, etc. etc. Perhaps the conflict is the desire to build unique champions while still balancing them, where the latter is what you're referring to when it comes to trimming champions to allow for counterplay.

and Riot has adopted the attitude that they made it so it is good, and will admit no mistakes, even when they are obvious, so correcting them is not even a possibility.

This is false. Just false. I've seen Rioters go through dozens of threads apologizing about how they missed the mark on a champion rework, how they're working on correcting the issues, etc.

Basically, should we have faith that Riot will follow through on everything we say? No, even if they did do that back in Season 1, the community is so much larger now, and not every player is as vocal about changes as people on Boards are, even though those changes affect them as well. Should we keep providing feedback and voting? Yes, absolutely, it influences the way the game is created, even if it isn't verbatim what the community asks for (and actually will never be verbatim what the community asks for, for legal reasons).

Just look at the recent thread asking for a neutral river jungle camp; that was just put in PBE for Season 5 experimental changes. Sure, it isn't a duck, but like I said, legal reasons.

Binxy Prime10/13/2014, 4:52:45 PM14 votes

I don't agree with every decision riot makes (or doesn't make) but in my experience most of the things they change do end up making the game more interesting.

I still hate the warding system we have right now though.

TehNACHO10/13/2014, 3:08:43 PM13 votes

Ehh, I think the Soraka thing never came off correctly to you.

The problem with Solo lane Soraka is that sans doing absolutely stupid+amazing every second you have, you almost literally can't do anything to Soraka. Get too close? Eating star call. Shoving lane? She shoves harder. Ability caster? Silence. Poke? Heal. While you can argue that solo lane Soraka isn't nearly as viable right anymore, she was viable back then for a lot of bad reasons anyway.

Also, you have to consider the people who are just plain wrong. I recall somebody asking for MAJOR Poppy buffs. No, not changes to her kit, flat number buffs. Do you really think Riot's consideration to keep an unbalanceable mess like Poppy numerically weak really doesn't favor the game's longevity more than the player who wants to see Poppy buffed? Yeah you can argue that it's a specific case out of many, but that's in fact my point. You may see a HUGE WAVE of people naysaying Riot, but if you actually analyzed what they say, some things just stick out really badly.

HowPlayGAEM10/13/2014, 5:15:39 PM10 votes

No.

They talk the talk, but they don't walk the walk.

The Fighter rework has been talked about for 2 years now, so have US East servers. Silence.

How about that lore eh? Two years of complete stagnation, then everything deleted and replaced with 2 sentence champ bios.

The Cass rework. Multiple large threads voicing concerns, all ignored. All we get is a "whoopsies :P". People who actually PLAY Cass told you what would happen, yet you're STILL trying to push this crap.

Player focused? How about you get rid of noobtrap t1 and t2 runes? How about you address the bot infestation?

Vakabiel10/13/2014, 5:30:22 PM10 votes

Yes.

This company is still the best one out there as far as how good of a job they are doing vs. the population, growth and time they have been around.

I bet there are people in here that trust the government more than they trust Riot and guess which one has a better track record? ;)

Junkο10/13/2014, 5:18:20 PM9 votes

Look at the bug report forum, look at all the bugs that will 100% never will be fixed.

They said they can't reproduce any of the bugs, but they literally happen all the time.

And what you said, about reworks and that.

I answer no

Daddy Space Lion10/13/2014, 4:30:15 PM7 votes

Not until they actually post in threads talking about three redeems per life time, or the thread about one extra champion ban per side or even the thread about the old Riot doing things that aren't greedy and stingy - threads that actually matter to the community on a big scale.

Otherwise, no. Riot cannot be a faithful obligation as long as they are 100% business and 0% humanity.

Hayaishi10/13/2014, 3:34:38 PM7 votes

Soraka was cancer wether your bias lets you admit it or not. Riot would be making a bigger joke than they currently are by letting her be vaible with that play style she used to have.

I dont have faith in them anymore, i wont waste money on this game until riot actually balances this gane, stops destroying lore for god knows what reason.

Serpents Embrace10/14/2014, 12:21:50 AM6 votes

The Cassiopeia rework has my faith in them temporarily suspended. If Stashu would even just talk, but he doesn't. He posts a thread somewhere every two weeks or so and abandons it immediately. It's so frustrating and she just sits there, unplayable and unrecognizable.

However, on the Soraka rework her solo laning is probably still viable in a sense. Remember when a few pro teams took Janna mid and a Master Yi carry jungle? It'd have to function like that. Where she'd use her wave clear (her Q is still amazing for it) to keep mid turret up and to have a lot of AP and then use her improved support abilities (the AP scaling) to make sure the carry jungler just crushed. And Yi's jungle clear would be healthier if he made a pit stop by mid for some healing. But it's thin, I know. Not likely.

opscomm10/14/2014, 1:17:42 PM6 votes

I've been playing this game since April of 2011, and too be honest, no, I really do not trust riot to do what is best for the game, for a number of reasons.

First off, let's start with the massive amount of inconsistency coming out of riot in regards to core gameplay mechanics, such as what they are going to do about the jungle, what their priority list is for champion reworks, etc. The amount of times I've read that "x champion needs a rework, but is on the back burner" and seen people BEGGING for a list so we know who is up for a rework first is massive. Champions who's kits are incredibly old and outdated, despite if they are played or not, like Warwick, Urgot, Poppy, and many others, are simply ignored when it comes to champion reworks. Instead, we get soraka, who was honestly in need of one since all she did was heal and make games very stale, Cassiopeia who they took behind the shed and shot, Xerath who did not really need one, Sona who they made worse, and Skarner who they still have not made viable. Forgive me if I am wrong, but the champion reworks they have released over the past year really have not improved the game. Even Sion's rework is not great, because all he can do is initiate and then stand there until he dies, where upon death he runs around unable to kill anything because everybody on the enemy team just runs away before he revives.

The second reason is the sheer stupid amount of time it is taking them to improve their server architecture. EUW took over a year to get servers which actually functioned, and now they are working on making the NA servers better, but not giving us NA east servers. I'm pretty sure the distance from east coast to west coast is about the same and the distance from their EUW servers to the EU nordic servers, if not longer. So, why in the world are we not getting NA east servers? And do not get me started on how they are unable to stop the DDoS attacks, because I know people who work on server architecture, it is not that difficult, even for larger servers, to stop it. Do you ever hear about DoTA servers being basically down for days at a time, because I do not.

The final reason is that the game is just bad. Not bad from a perspective of not fun, because it is fun, but bad because of the sheer amount of bugs, poor design choices, and lack of features which should be in the game by now. The fact that there is still not a pause function in the game for at least ranked games is stupid. There are countless threads begging for riot to do something about afk players in ranked games, and nothing is done about it. Oh sure, they can talk about updating the tribunal and stuff like that, but after they initially informed the player base about the planned changes, very little to nothing has been said or done.

I'm somebody who follows League news because I used to love this game and think it was fantastic back during seasons one and two, and I have seen it take the path that so many other games do, where instead of fixing problems or just leaving the game alone, they continue to add more and more stuff to the game, and change things for the worse. TF2 did this, Minecraft did it, World of Tanks still does it, and League has been doing it too. I don't want new champions or skins or whatever, I want you to fix the game and actually improve it. But that takes effort and would make riot less money, so they won't.

tl:dr, I don't trust riot because they are just in it for the money now, and havent released a patch which actually improves the game for something like 2 years.

Summonerrr 110/14/2014, 11:21:37 AM5 votes

Let me start by saying no. My short answer is that to have faith in someone you must respect and share their core values and beliefs. I no longer can say these things about Riot. For the long answer, read on.

My long answer starts with the unfortunate truth is perception is reality. If Riot perceives a champion needs work, they'll work on it. If they perceive that graphical updates take priority over things like the Tribunal (or any punitive system for that matter, if the justice system in america shut down 5 months it would be anarchy), Server and hardware stability and maintenance, and the client, then they'll let those things rot. Another truth that can be quite unfortunate for those who fail to heed its wisdom is that to build for the future you must keep your foundation well tended and for Riot that's the community.

No one denies the fact that one of the biggest aspects that helped Riot take off WAS it's community. And for a company to still claim to be influenced by it's community and still be riddled with schisms and arguments like this : http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=41405177#41405177 and the Cassiopeia shenanigans is testament to their unwillingness to lend ear to the community. If your community still vehemently resists changes to a dedicated healer (Soraka) whose existence as a "Dedicated Healer" you deem problematic with 18 red posts in the same thread, you will probably lose the faith of quite a few Soraka players if you completely redesign her kit around your priorities that YOU perceive most beneficial to the game without considering the community's standpoint.

If you consistently act in contrast to those you claim to care about and consider, then you will lose the faith of considerate and caring people. ORBV Has a very good point when he denotes that high turnover is a symptom of discord and changing business practices. This is not an opinion, this is a statistically proven fact. For Riot to still believe that It can honestly share the same values and beliefs of its community like it did Pre-LCS when it has been bought out by Tencent is a slap in the face.

A further insult is the fact that their revenue last year was almost 1 Billion dollars but they spend less than 10% of it on hardware and infrastructure upkeep/maintenance. Want to drastically improve your long term efficacy and growth as a company? Building a reputation of dependability is always a good choice. I personally don't have too much issue with the LoL client, but considering the fact I have no issues running many client-based games on my Rig, plenty of them First Person Shooters, RPGs, and other games with high-end hardware requirements, I shouldn't have problems at all. Yet The LoL Client and patcher are consistently the most unstable and crash-prone applications on my system. I also hardly ever have latency or connection issues in game, yet this consistently impacts my overall game experience because 70% of games I'm in at least one person out of ten does.

So, all those things considered, how does that impact my faith in Riot, or lack thereof? Pretty simple really. I've been consistently dissappointed, impressed, satisfied, confused, or otherwise miffed by Riot's logic in response to player feedback regarding their recent activity when it comes to game updates. I don't have much faith in people who I can't count on to act in a consistent manner, or at least be consistently inconsistent, and since I perceive Riot to be someone I can't count on, yeah, faith has been lost.

One thing that Money doesn't care about, though, is faith, as long as it has the allure to keep you interested and be enjoyable. I don't have faith in them at all, and you shouldn't either, but that won't stop me from having fun in the game. Until they ruin that too.

AbyssionKnight10/13/2014, 6:58:42 PM4 votes

I've been playing since Season 1 and there has never been a time where the forums have not been up in arms about at least some of the things your brought up. Riot is always doubted and second guessed, especially if they make any major changes. Yet the game has continued to grow more and more popular, and has vastly improved from what it was when I started playing.

I think a lot of the people that complain are just people who can't stand change. Either they've been playing for ages and hate when it changes, or they're newer players, haven't seen how much league can change between patches, and are naturally panicked.

There is no perfectly balanced games out there, and League is no exception to that. It'll always have hiccups and flaws. What really matters is the thought and effort Riot, or any developer, puts into repairing those flaws and just improving their game as a whole.

Canastus10/14/2014, 9:30:23 AM4 votes

I think the recent debacle which was the Cass rework proves quite well how incompetent this company has become.

It's beyond me how they can even defend this act of atrocity, going as far to neglect hundreds of posts and numerous threads filled with dissatisfaction for this abomination.

Jeddy01710/13/2014, 8:41:12 PM3 votes

I don't know. I started playing LOL in January of this year & in that time,I still don't know how to feel about Riot.In most that time,I just played the game.Seeking to improve my skills while having fun. Riot has (or hasn't) done things that helped (or hindered) me to get (or from getting) what I want from this game.

Do I have faith in Riot?Some areas,yes.I have faith that they're going to continue to make cool & fun champs.In some areas,no.The freaking server shouldn't be this crappy after FOUR+ YEARS.And in every other area,I honestly don't know such as the Lore retcon.

Marthian10/13/2014, 6:36:36 PM3 votes

Yes. Rome wasn't built overnight, just like League of Legends won't become balanced in one patch.

As for ISP issues, except for maybe east coast (not sure what's up with that) but a lot of Disconnects are client side or the string of D/Cs everyone got a few weeks ago was due to some butts DDoSing their servers.

slaverythegame10/14/2014, 7:06:48 PM3 votes

Hell no riot champion design team is incompetent as can be. They say their design philosophy is you play your champ so you feel good when you do good and scale well when you do good with them but if you fail to do good you retain a mediocre champ power level. This design philosophy is simply not true and doesn't apply to top tier champs like warwick who dominates early,mid and late game in the jungle, doing good or bad. New sion if you do good with him you will regardless be abysmal all game. His damage is worse then rammus without the tankiness.

Riot should seriously fire all their champ designers and replace them with under the table paid illegal Mexicans. They should be grateful having their job considering this game makes so much money from skin sales and whatnot. And I seriously hope I spike their blood pressure from reading my comments how they do a piss poor job.

Earl Eulrich10/13/2014, 10:52:05 PM3 votes

Oh well, i still like the general game-design and the first round of preseason-changes looked quite promising.

However, I lost the last bit of Faith in their Lore-depatement when they decided to just delete everything that connects players and the world with the gameplay for no good reason at all.

iamthegoatofwar10/14/2014, 3:30:04 PM2 votes

I've never spent a buck on league...and probably never will. I'd rather give it to Microsoft...and those are some shady mother fuckers

Drukyul10/15/2014, 2:55:45 PM2 votes

No reason to trust them. They do their own thing on their own timescale, and usually don't even accomplish that.

Rozencrantze10/14/2014, 6:33:06 AM2 votes

So are you sayin Raka can't be played in a solo lane? I have seen some pretty good Raka's in mid.

Kürama10/14/2014, 6:09:18 PM2 votes

I agree Riot has been making some shitty decision and talking some crap lately, that's not good, but that doesn't mean that they don't care at all. What I think, is they've become slack and a bit lazy, and so the quality of work has decreased, and that needs to increase again.