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Where are Tribunal reports going?

RiotRiot Sweet·12/16/2014, 1:32:19 AM·41 votes·28,536 views
If the tribunal is down. Where exactly are our reports going to? Surely Riot can't check the huge amount of reports personally? * /r/leagueoflegends

Earlier today a player asked:

"If the tribunal is down. Where exactly are our reports going to? Surely Riot can't check the huge amount of reports personally?"

#Riot Lyte responded with this to say:

Reports are still being used by a variety of systems that aren't tied to the Tribunal.

Some examples include:

  • Chat Restrictions, which are given to players who show moderate verbal toxicity.
  • Intentional Feeder Bans, which are given to players who currently show intentional feeding patterns in their games.
  • ** Ranked Restrictions**, which are given to players who show toxicity in Ranked Modes and restricts them from playing Ranked until they improve their behaviors.
  • ** Escalated Bans**, which are 14-day bans given to players who show extreme verbal toxicity.

There's a team at Riot working hard on the Tribunal, and we realize it's been down for 6 months now. One of the biggest problems of the system was the speed of its feedback loops, as it would often take longer than a week for a player to receive their punishment. As we've mentioned before, the faster the feedback, the better the results. A second problem was that many territories in the world never got a Tribunal at all due to hardware/infrastructure issues.

We intend to have more news about the Tribunal in 2015, and are planning some initial tests of the new system. For example, we're seeing how current reports affect the new system, and we'll be looking for some players to help us test the system on the PBE in 2015.

Some of the new features in the system include:

  • the ability to review positive players in the Tribunal and grant them some rewards
  • new ways for players to see their contributions to the community in the Justice Reviews
  • a visual update to the entire system, including the Case Review and Reform Cards
  • a new tier system for punishments so that players only get 1 warning and 2 chances before they completely lose their account
  • optimized algorithms that hopefully allow us to ensure that players get punished or rewarded within a few days of their Tribunal case (we still need to tune this)
  • the ability for awesome contributors in the Tribunal to earn some in-game rewards each year

There's some other additions to the Tribunal, but these are some of the cooler things I'm looking forward to as a League player myself. Anyways, we'll talk more about some of our plans on how we'll re-introduce the Tribunal back into League in 2015. We apologize for the delay; unfortunately, scaling the Tribunal globally to millions of players proved to be more difficult than we initially expected... but when you're making something that millions of people will use, nothing is ever easy.

172 Comments

lolipopevelynn12/16/2014, 1:55:20 AM20 votes

a new tier system for punishments so that players only get 1 warning and 2 chances before they completely lose their account

this seems a bit harsh. its as if u guys want to increase the number of perma bans.

if this is a tribunal, the playerbase should ultimately vote on a final punishment for a player. if enough players think that a certain player needs a perma ban based on other cases, then that is what should happen.

automated system for permabans is kinda dumb if we have a player controlled tribunal. but w/e. this game is already severely harsher than 99% of other games when it comes to reports. and nothing comes out of it in the end cuz smurf accounts are relevant. all it does is slightly inconvenience someone into making a new lvl 30 acc to be toxic on.

so in reality, no one ever "loses their account". they just make a new one.

disregardable12/16/2014, 1:42:49 AM16 votes

players only get 1 warning and 2 chances before they completely lose their account

Well, good bye account. The hundreds of hours I have invested into you will be gone in a few months.

RiotRiot Sweet12/16/2014, 9:03:02 PM14 votes

*Didn't get a chance to cross-post more last night but here are more details Lyte elaborated on. *

It dosen't matter because no human is checking the report it's only a robot that bans after a X amount of reports. If you report them wheter or not they were toxic the result will be the same they'll get banned

#Lyte:

This is false for several reasons.

One, the Report System takes into account every player's report accuracy. If your reports are accurate, your reports will mean more and the systems will actually take your votes into account.

If your reports are inaccurate, if you spam reports, or if you simply do silly things like get a premade group of 4 to report someone for no reason, your reports will lose value over time.

If reports just resulted in punishment no matter what, trust me, you'd hear about millions of false positives on the forums, not just a few players complaining about their bans every so often.

"the ability to review positive players in the Tribunal and grant them some rewards" If you can elaborate I would be very interested in hearing more about this?

#Lyte: When players log into the new Tribunal they will be presented with a random case that could be Negative, Neutral or Positive. Because there's 3 options and random "test" cases, it's very difficult for players to simply spam "Punish" in the new system because they'll quickly get flagged for being highly inaccurate, and also this new setup encourages players to dive deeper into cases and read the details instead of potentially seeing something like 90% of cases be punishable.

If you get presented a Positive case, and you vote Positive, the player in the case will get a small in-game prize that is still TBD but should be a nice little pat on the back for the player. Players that are rated positive in the Tribunal often will also be eligible for more frequent rewards like the double IP Boost we tested a few weeks ago.

Are reports from custom games in fact already counted? If not, might they be in the future?

#Lyte:

At this time, the launch of the new Tribunal does not include support for Custom Games; however, what queues are "active" or not are a simple toggle in the new system.

As with any new system we want to manage the launch very carefully and not simply open the floodgates of every queue on the system. If all matchmade queues are doing well after the Tribunal launch and we want to expand into Custom Games, we can.

So why couldn't you keep the old system up while creating the new one in the background or on the PBE?

#Lyte:

Unfortunately, maintaining a "live" system is a decent amount of work for a team so if we kept the old system up and running it would have potentially taken much longer to get the new system up. It is also much harder to run some analytics and research tests when 2 systems are concurrently "live." For example, it was much easier to run Escalated Ban and Ranked Restriction tests without an old Tribunal also reviewing cases and judging the same behaviors these other systems were monitoring and punishing for. Now that we understand how Escalated Bans and Ranked Restrictions work without any other systems interfering, we can incorporate them much easier into the new Tribunal.

Not to get into the nitty gritty, but for example if we're upgrading tech stacks or hardware throughout League of Legends, this team would have to keep up with these changes on the old system while also building a new one for the future so it's also a lot of redundant work.

Although it was a painful choice, and one that we can debate for the ages, we made the choice to shut the old Tribunal down to focus all team resources on the new one.

Does that mean that the ribbon/honoring system is essentially... going away? Like if I honor someone as friendly, does that even do anything in terms of their tribunal status or am I just wasting my time even bothering?

#Lyte:

We actually have a follow-up design to Honor that will make it compatible with the new Tribunal.

It won't come out at the same time, but Honor is something we're working on in 2015.

A Random Newbie12/16/2014, 1:06:59 PM12 votes

The only thing that matters is whether or not you are adding replays to the Tribunal. If you aren't, it will remain a mostly useless, glorified mute button.

If one of my teammates in a ranked game trolls and deliberately sabotages our chances of winning, prompting another teammate to react with "abusive" chat, it's not the second teammate that we need an out-of-game system to deal with - he's merely an annoyance (and one which we already have the mute button and mute/ignore commands to deal with), wheras the first teammate is not only causing actual harm, but we have zero recourse for dealing with him.

We don't need yet another tool to deal with people typing in chat (except maybe in extreme cases, such as racism/homophobia/etc); we need a tool to deal with the people who are actually ruining games. Yes, people raging in chat can be annoying. Yes, banning them saves me the second or two I would have spent muting them, which is a minor convenience. However, I'd rather have to mute one hundred teammates than have one teammate throw away half an hour's work and a game's worth of LP by intentionally throwing a game (and I see FAR more teammates intentionally throwing matches than I see raging in chat - experienced players understand that chat will get you banned in short order, while you can take whatever trollish actions you want).

Hyrum Graff12/16/2014, 6:49:04 AM8 votes

Hey, I just wanted to thank you for cross-posting this here. If it wasn't for this post, I'd never have seen this information.

Epilogue of Life12/18/2014, 2:49:53 AM6 votes

some fucked up shit we have here, the punishment for deliberately losing a game is less than being rude...thought this was a competitive game.

CutiePatootie1112/20/2014, 3:45:29 AM5 votes

Wow, only one warning and two chances until you're permabanned? I don't know why Riot is so focused on what is said in chat. Chat isn't the problem, the afkers and trolls in the game are the problem. I have had many afkers in my ranked games recently, some of which never even connected. Yet, I still have never received a loss forgiven. If someone is being toxic in chat, just mute them, simple as that. But when someone is intentionally trying to make your team lose, there is nothing you can do. I am afraid for my boyfriend's account, because he gets very angry over trolling, and has had to suffer many punishments because of that. He has had his account for years, and has invested hundreds of dollars into it. He would be absolutely devastated if it got permabanned.

Fynos12/16/2014, 9:15:16 PM5 votes

The fact that the new system includes ways to give positive players a "pat on the back" is such a crock that it just goes to show how disconnected devs are from players.

I'm sure players would rather have immediate options for dealing with someone trolling them instead of constantly having to play out 20-30 min games with them, knowing it's a loss, knowing people are pissed, and hoping the report after game does anything. Then they queue up for potentially the same situation.

Now there's rewards for people who put up with Riot's lack of doing anything optimal in the first place? Bravo.

Tell me I'm wrong in that you're dictating the climate by creating fanbois now because they think they'll be rewarded for blindly acting like cherubs.

Not to mention how long and dragged out this has been because you've made this entire process lacking any data to substantiate anything you're doing.

I love the player base stats for the entire player base ... except I never really see the same issues in co-op matches as you'd see in bronze/silver ranked, and for good reason.

Get a clue.

Jambulija12/16/2014, 6:00:51 AM4 votes

So for now the reports on bad language and attitude work only if the summoner is chating on English?

And one more thing: Reading **Punished **chat examples in the tribunal help us improve our attitude in game(It helped me). Which results in healthier games regardless if we express our frustration in the chat or not.

So If "to review positive players in the Tribunal" is gonna filter the bad ones out.... We need the bad ones to know whats bad, to think to our self's "Aaa... I did that yesterday - that sounds really childish"

Damorion21512/17/2014, 3:12:50 AM4 votes

So if a Rioter could answer this, it would be greatly appreciated:

There's some other additions to the Tribunal, but these are some of the cooler things I'm looking forward to as a League player myself.

This is what Lyte said and I was wondering: Will one of those new additions possibly be video playback of certain said incidents in the game in accordance with that game's chat log?

I think this would greatly increase the chances of proving/disproving someone's case and the reward/punishment given would be more accurately and more quickly.

Wullf12/17/2014, 6:26:01 AM4 votes

your reports will lose value over time

Would it be possible to see what value my reports have? Or will Support tell me this information?

KOSHER TACO12/16/2014, 12:01:28 PM4 votes

Thank you for relaying this information from reddit, as many people don't use reddit despite the fact that a lot of useful information is located only there. SMH..

redniwediS12/16/2014, 1:42:08 AM3 votes

Any chance statistics from the original Tribunal will still be visible when the new one comes around? I had a fantastic streak going on that I liked showing off.

The Soulforged12/16/2014, 2:50:04 AM3 votes

The tribunal was a problem, so what are you going to do to make it go by? What is encouraging players to vote other than a small amount of ip?

Deathless81C12/18/2014, 8:27:55 AM3 votes

So still nothing in regards to trolls that bypass the chat. Also whatever person at Riot thought unmuting people at end of game, was an idiot.

CaesarFlickerman12/17/2014, 8:08:27 PM2 votes

"When players log into the new Tribunal they will be presented with a random case that could be Negative, Neutral or Positive. Because there's 3 options and random "test" cases, it's very difficult for players to simply spam "Punish" in the new system because they'll quickly get flagged for being highly inaccurate, and also this new setup encourages players to dive deeper into cases and read the details instead of potentially seeing something like 90% of cases be punishable."

This doesn't make sense, considering each and every thing outside of gifting your teammates RP every time they kill a creep is considered toxic.