@RiotSolCrushed Viktor and The Coming Evolution

Goumindong·8/6/2014, 7:37:43 PM·44 votes·5,696 views

I want to talk a little bit about Viktor and you're the guy in charge of the Viktor gameplay update so this is directed at you.

I do not have a tonne of experience on Viktor but he is one of my more played Mids and every once and a while I will support with him. I feel like I have enough experience background and theory background to discuss the champion and where he should be taken.

Fundamentally i believe that Viktor is a very powerful champion who's weaknesses are not related to core champion design. He works slightly different than other mages because he has only two non-ultimate damage abilities (like Lux) which gives him a level 11-13 peak powerspike rather than a level 18 peak power. This early powerspike allows him to control the mid game and snowball important dragon fights into wins, and turn fights even if it looks like he is behind the other mid laner.

Viktor is an AoE Burst mage. His Laser and Ultimate combine for a total ratio of 3.38 and 1350 base damage. This is an absolutely amazing amount of damage. Its more damage than standing in Karthus defile for 7 seconds and then eating his requiem. Its more damage than chilling out in Anivia's Glacial Storm for 7 seconds and then eating a Flash Frost to the face. Its as more damage as facetanking Tibbers for 7 seconds while getting incinerated. Its more damage than a full brand combo on your entire team(I.E. no multiple bounces to the same person). Its more damage than just chilling in a Morgana pool while she ults you. Its more damage than a full ziggs combo unless you take the time to walk over every single bomblet in his slow field(but that would be single target, so it doesn't even count!)

Now these other mages get a good amount of other utility in exchange for not doing as much damage as Viktor(cooldowns, some utility, mobility etc) and certainly for not doing as much damage as Viktor does early. But when Viktor gets that fight in a chokepoint just right there isn't much the other team can do but melt.

No, Viktor's problems almost all stem from three main issues


  1. His laser's smartcast behavior is terrible: Some spells, when you click outside of their range will cast as if you had clicked at the end of the range. Many times this is done for spells which have long ranges or spells which don't have animations because its the direction of the spell and not necessarily the range of the spell that matters most, players more often want the spell going in that direction than they want to reposition to cast. Viktor's laser should be one of those spells. If you're running away from a fight and you start the laser just outside of the laser start range the last thing you want to have happen is for Viktor to turn around and run back into the fight. But that is what happens.

When this happens it essentially negates the fact that Viktor's laser doesn't interrupt his movement because in practice it does interrupt his movement. Casting around max range will cause Viktor to reposition when the player might not want it.

I describe this as a problem with the smartcast behavior, but its also an issue with the normal cast behavior. Since Viktor will be moving while he is casting its very easy to start the drag inside the circle (or just outside) and have it end up outside of the circle as you move.

But this can be fixed. If, when you start Viktor's laser outside of the circle, the game interprets that as starting Viktor's laser at the closest point in the circle you no longer have any issues about Viktor turning around and running into a fight he is trying to run from. Alternately the game can extend the line you drew in two directions and start the laser where it intersects the edge of the cast range. The intent of the players actions comes through rather than the reality of their clicks. Granted this isn't perfect, since it will remove some of the mechanical difficulty of Viktor. But i do not believe that that aspect of mechanical complexity is core to Viktor's kit. Its how you place lasers not the fact that you clicked 2 pixels on the wrong side of his range that should make a good Viktor player.


  1. Two of his hex cores are bad: Hex cores don't need to be moved to the trinket slot. Its one possibility but its not necessary. The main problem with his Hex Cores is that only Death is any good. Specifically, Death is a, roughly, slot efficient damage item. Its also a gold efficient damage item. Death gives you 45 AP and its passive for 1000 gold. By the gold value of Amp Tomes this is 978 gold worth of raw stats. And the passive is better than Deathcap's Passive for his E. Given that he tends to level up E first and given that he has only two non-ultimate damaging abilities the Death augments passive is about as strong as Deathcap until a good deal into the game. Deathcap's passive is worth at least 650 gold, and functionally more if we compare it to building Zhonya/DFG which have more raw stats and different passives for less money. Death is a really good item. Its cheap, powerful, gives you a huge mid game power spike, and lategame its still pretty slot efficient. Simply it works with Viktor's core power spike and it can replace a lategame slot efficient item.

So what about Power? Technically, power has 803 gold worth of stats on it based on the cost of rejuv beads and ruby crystals. Except that that is bull, it has 587 gold worth of stats on it, the HP 5 is useless. Is its passive as good as Deathcaps passive? Probably not. Its passive is barely better than Rylai's (better for running away, worse for allowing team to catch a target). Can it replace an item like Rylai's in the lategame? Death has 100 AP and almost a Deathcap passive. So its pretty close to a Deathcap, a 3600 gold item. Rylai's has 100 AP and 400 HP. Power has 54 AP and 220 HP. Man the problem with power isn't that its not a trinket the problem with power is that it sucks. If it had 600 HP on it it would be comparable to Rylai's.

Similarly we can look at Gravity. Arguably Gravity as the best passive. One of the things that makes Viktor players good is landing the best Gravity Field. And increasing the range on Gravity Field means hitting the right space easier. Its hard to put a price on something that can change the game like a good 3 total seconds of combined hard/soft CC and strong zoning potential. But we're going to because Gravity has mana and MP5 on it. Two stats which have roughly zero "now" power. The only thing it has decently is 10% CDR. "Technically" this is 1017 worth of stats. But raw mana isn't that powerful on Viktor and 5 MP/5 is nothing. This item has 317 worth of stats... 317 worth of stats that aren't even that good on Viktor because he is a burst mage and is more concerned about now damage than about sticking around to get that second laser off.

What about a comparable item for slot efficiency? Can Gravity compare to Morellonomicon? 10 MP5, 80 AP, 20% CDR. Ahh ha ha hah ah ha no. Morellonomicon is 2200 gold item and Gravity can't compare in total stats to it. Death almost compares in total stats to a 3600 gold item. If gravity entirely replaced a Sustain/CDR item then it would be something to consider getting, 20% CDR, chalice passive, 10 mp/5, 54 AP and the range passive would be the minimum you could consider. Almost as strong as a pimp cup (which isn't even that good an item anymore)

Basically, in order for Power and Gravity to be transformative in the way that Viktor plays, power and gravity have to not just plain suck. They need to be able to replace, at at least 80% of the power, a similarly slot efficient lategame item. This can be transformative because it will allow Viktor to pick between whether or not he is a sustained damage/poke mage who has lots of mana and 20% CDR or whether or not he is a burst mage who just nukes things with some of the highest AoE damage. Or if he is a tanky AP/kite master who is build like a brick. Most importantly they need to be designed around Viktor's mid game power spike just like the Death Augment, such that the choice of Augment determines how you go about abusing your mid game spike.


  1. His auto attack is terrible: Viktor was designed in the age where mids couldn't have good auto attacks. He was, more or less, the last of his kind. This is strange since he was designed as a mid champion who would abuse his shield to auto attack enemy champions in lane and win the trades. But Viktor's forward swing is so long that its hard to make many of those trades(or CS effectively). His auto attack numbers aren't terrible, but they're lower than other champions who tend to bully a lot with auto attacks (Ziggs especially). Most importantly however is the auto attack sound. Remember ryze's old auto attack before it got changed? Where it played the "you have auto attacked" cue before he actually auto attacked? Viktor does almost the same thing. Shore up his auto attack animation and pay close attention to the audio queue and you will do a lot to return Viktor to the type of lane bully he was meant to be.

Anyway, these are the things that i feel are the core issues with Viktor. There are some other little things. His ult might do too little of its damage in the burst or be too hard to move around in the fight.(it could also silence/interrupt on first damage so that Viktor could use it to "tag" enemies who missed the initial burst for a bit of mini-game CC/disruption). His Q shield could be instant rather than delayed(maybe on the Q augment passive it works like lux shield. He gets one immediately and then stacks it when it comes back). The passives on his Q and W augments could change to be more transformative to his playstyle. And yes, you could move the hex cores to the trinket slot.

But the biggest issue is the behavior of his laser with regards to casting it on the move. Second to this is his terrible attack animation and the lack of actual strength in his Q and W augments. He doesn't need a lot of changes to be brought into the fold of powerful champions, he just needs the right tweaks.

29 Comments

RiotSolcrushed8/7/2014, 12:53:53 AM19 votes

Awesome post, I'm actually looking into 1) right now and testing how the new paradigm feels vs. the old.

These kinds of posts are very informative and really show that you have played the character extensively, if you have any other points that you feel cause the character to feel clunky please point them out so I can be sure to address them.

Xzann8/6/2014, 8:57:33 PM6 votes

As an avid Viktor player, I agree with all of this. I've been struggling to articulate my issue with his laser, but you've summed it up very nicely.

rtbf2091425558/7/2014, 12:22:29 AM4 votes

Honestly, Id love to see more ulitiy added to his gravity field.For example, when an ally walks on it its "lifts them up and over to the other side quickly"

Meep Man8/6/2014, 11:21:06 PM3 votes

I wish he could build augments and combine them until he gets the ultimate augment, meanin the peak of his Passive's power.

Zör8/6/2014, 11:16:37 PM3 votes

I believe there may also be some opportunity to hone Viktor’s already trademark image. From a purely thematic standpoint, take his Power transfer versus all of his other abilities:

  1. Evolving Technology – Direct correlation to his mastery over Techmaturgy through wielding devastating advances like the Death Augmentation.

  2. Gravity Well – Some crazy piece of auto deploying technology that dominates a section of the battlefield for the duration.

  3. Death Ray – Name says it all. Recent sound effect additions on creator Viktor with Augment death drive home this same concept. Not only does the beam hurt, it really sounds like it does.

  4. Chaos Storm – A Blackhole generating drone deploys around the battlefield. Yet another super offensively oriented skill that carries that overpower undertone.

Then there is Power Transfer. The skill gives the impression that Viktor’s got a predilection for Frisbee golf as he throws a small disk an extremely short distance that, upon its return, give a small shielding effect that doesn’t do very much. It simply feels out of place amongst Viktor’s other skills.

Furthermore, while they’re retooling Viktor’s auto-attack, they need to consider the presentation around it. With so many skins shooting missiles, grenades and all other assorted advanced weaponry, Viktor’s “pew pew” stick gives the impression that his “glorious evolution” has fallen behind the times.

Just throwing that out there...

TermafleitoR8/6/2014, 11:14:13 PM2 votes

Nicely done Goumindong!

I main as Viktor, but lately I felt that he needs attention and some tweaks to be made prior to play him as it meant to play. Eventually, I had to switch to other mages due to points mentioned above by Goumindong.

Hopefully, they will pay attention and will make the right decision.

Macrofarad8/7/2014, 6:00:56 PM2 votes

A bit late coming in but Viktor has been one of my main champions since release. Here's my input:

As stated in the OP, smart cast is exceptionally bad for E, it does interrupt movement while running away if you aren't anticipating exactly where you'll be at cast animation and speaking personally, he is the only champion in the entire game that I have to go into settings and specifically adjust my settings for each time I switch to/from him. The nature of laser is unforgiving enough that if you miss one early on in lane, you'll likely end up having to back early due to mana or hp issues. Also, if you use smart cast, you'll occasionally have lasers that go in a direct outward line for no reason, it's seriously no bueno in a team fight. (aiming outside of hitbox while on smart cast while in motion does it sometimes and it can easily ruin your teamfight damage)

Shield: Q shield needs to be an iota quicker, as it is currently, it's fairly useless early game. Shield is as it stands a 1-2 aa blocker for most of the game, the issue is, you have to know when they're AA'ing significantly before they actually do so as casting it in response will not get you a shield quick enough. Damage is good, mana cost is more than fair, and shield is nice, it's just very, very slow.

item 3196 : I like the idea, but there is literally zero reason for anyone to ever get it. item 3257 do everything this augment does and does it better due to the fact AA's now proc the ms as well allowing you to better catch up, and dodge skill shots by weaving in AA's (which people should be doing anyways). Not to mention, furor is less than half the cost added on to something you already get. I agree that a kiting augment would be beneficial, but in its current state, it's not worth beans.

Other than that, I think most of the issues were covered by OP

PS: I would no be opposed if creator viktor's Laser/augmented laser colors were switched. Black laser feels more death whereas red laser feels more, well laser. Completely aesthetic, but would be cool none the less

Tasgal8/6/2014, 11:06:54 PM2 votes

My only real problem with this post is you said he has 2 damaging abilities, when he has q, e, and r. Other than that your augment argument makes sense. I definitely agree with the laser cast point. His autoattacks never bothered me though, he's certainly no Anivia.

Edit: reread and saw that at first you said two non-ultimate, when it comes up again though you only say two, which is where the confusion was.

Kalokin8/8/2014, 6:13:27 AM1 votes

This is just a thought i had but what if he had like 5 or more augments he could buy that each had a single scaling stat or effect (kinda like the base form of his current one). He could get one of his choosing for free at the start of the game and every time he levels his ult he could buy another stat or effect from the store for a price to add on to it (kinda like how kha'zix can evolve one of his skills).

Just something I came up with.

Flemman8/11/2014, 5:46:06 PM1 votes

What about make each evolution upgrade the other ability toward some specific role?

I mean, the more I look at it, the more augment : gravity seems like a support feature Augment : death is obviously for a burst mage role For augment : Power, maybe poke mage but this one is kinda meh (think it's the one who need change to the actual bonus too)

Now, If when you upgrade your Hex core, you gave small direction change for the 2 other spell (maybe ult but more difficult) that could turn Viktor into a trump card in champ select.

For exemple, upgrade towards augment : gravity

Gravity Field => same as now Power Transfer => shield the nearby ally instead of viktor (or viktor if no ally close) Death Ray => damage lowered but burn the ground, make it not possible to cross the line for 0.5(/1?) sec

RemyJecker8/11/2014, 9:24:12 PM1 votes

As a Viktor main since forever... I have a suggestion to make. What if instead of putting a price on his augmentations you made them smaller and gave them a different kind of price? Let me elaborate here. You open Viktor's laboratory (which could be a section of the normal shop, if that's not too difficult to make) and are presented with different options, like range extenders or gadgets that add fire to a skill (like the current augment death), none of which would increase his stats. These augmentations cost metal, a resource that is dropped much like Thresh's souls (albeit perhaps a bit more frequently). These augmentations wouldn't fill item slots, but they would take time to acquire. A really heavy farming Viktor might gain all the augmentations in a 2 hour game (because a fully augmented Viktor would actually compete with a super stacked Nasus). This would make Viktor feel very different from other mages while keeping his kit intact. To elaborate on the possibilities of such a kit: I might prefer building Viktor with extra range on his Q, while someone else might prefer adding a burn damage (with a fixed base damage and scaling) to his W. You could play him in so many different ways, and he would make for a pretty good support (because of the metal drop). To balance the metal passive you could perhaps make it so that the metal doesn't gravitate towards Viktor (which is what Thresh's souls do), so he'd have to risk exposing himself to get the material. Another idea I had was that you could have augments that took time to develop, like 5 mins per augment. However that isn't very engaging, it almost becomes like some kind of mobile game. IDK, it's probably way too difficult to actually implement an idea of this kind. I for one would be super impressed to see a champion with such depth.

ElJanitorFrank8/7/2014, 2:04:14 AM1 votes

Well I like the laser smart cast Amumu . All that I ask is you don't completely change him, so much as polish and tweak.

I3laded8/7/2014, 4:08:26 AM1 votes

Full-heatedly agree, well said.

CmereCupcake8/7/2014, 4:49:01 AM1 votes

My favorite champ is viktor so i've got stuff to say. Your points-

  1. Agree with, I think. I do feel like using the lazer in proximity to the enemy can be catastrophic. If you cast past the range accidentally while running and your champ hesitates, you will end up dying sometimes. Das bad. I think this kind of QOL change could be similar to the one for ziggs Q.

2)I disagree with the other cores being bad. The raw stats that they grant HOWEVER are bad, no doubt about it. Here's my two cents: item 3198 Augment death is the obvious pick, no wasted stats (like hp regen) and an effect that bolsters your damage capabilities. The effect is satisfying and it will make the enemy fear you if you get ahead. This item is a foil for one of the reasons we play viktor. His lazer is the bee's knees, and it sets apart a good vik from a bad one. Landing a max range lazer on a fleeing enemy and dropping them with the burn effect is an amazing feeling.

Augment Gravity needs work. An idea- gravity should in all forms replace the spellthief's edge. item 3197 ->item 3303 Give it the SAME stats, but make the last upgrade increase the range of his gravity field. Of course, he should not be able to buy both of these items. In effect, this augment should be used from the supportive position, and will make it easier to do so. I enjoy viktor support, but if I buy sightstone and upgrade a supportive item to lvl 2 then i'm spending about 1600 gold BEFORE i can even think of purchasing the Augment gravity for 1000, or dedicate any gold towards extra damage. Anyway, to clarify- LVL 1 item 3197 ->item 3303 Augment Presence LVL 2 item 3197 ->item 3098 Augment Pressure LVL 3 item 3197 ->item 3092 Augment Gravity

item 3196 Augment Power is great. I love this core. If you haven't experienced it firsthand, try this- item 1056 Doran's Ring->item 3196 Augment power->item 3277 Boots of Lucidity(with furor enchant)->item 3116 Rylais Crystal Scepter->item 3001 Abyssal Scepter->item 3151 Liandry's->item 3157 Zhonya's/item 3089 Deathcap/item 3128 DFG Not always in this order. Very fun. Makes viktor a repeated poke champ. Very hard to catch, low cooldown on Q and a safe laning phase vs certain champs. The downside of this core is the STATS. Oof they suck. The health is okay but it doesn't make him tanky. The hp regen is just pure bad. It's not enough to help him stick around and it's just a lot of cash wasted. Change the hp regen to bonus movement speed.

All in all the cores are there to make viktor feel more able to take on different champions by changing the way he plays. He's all about adapting and evolving, but THREE choices is pretty pitiful to meet that end and Gravity just doesn't seem balanced around midlane. Gravity also isn't fun for the other player to fight against unless they are Fizz.

3)An update on the sound effect for the AA animation? sure. Not a huge change, just please keep the old sound. Very satisfying. <3 I feel that his AA animation is fine though. Possible very slight buffs to his early game attack speed or base AD wouldn't be unappreciated either.

Lord Graves III8/7/2014, 8:35:01 AM1 votes

While saying Augment: Death is almost as good as a Rabadons might be overstating it, you have made the best case I've ever seen for the other augments just being garbage shovelware.

Great post.

Also, while having a bad autoattack sucks, I wouldn't say it is a core problem. Karthus, Morgana, and Anivia all have bad autoattacks. Sometimes that is just an issue a champ has. Just giving him a better autoattack animation isn't exactly something I'd feel good about, even if it did make him objectively stronger. I'd rather either see some effect added to his autos if you want to make them better, or just put the power somewhere else in his kit. I'd like to see his shield be any good for actually trading, but that could be seen as tied to his autoattacks.

Really making his other two augments not suck would solve the main issues with Viktor in my opinion.

I feel like Viktor has the weaknesses of EVERY KIND of mage, while only having the strengths of a burst mage.

Viktor has short range (on 3 spells), harsh resource restriction, long cooldowns, no inbuilt durability, and poor maneuverability. Most mages have at least a few of these issues. Tank mages like Swain and Vlad have short range. Burst mages like Veigar and Brand have mana problems and low durability, utility mages like Morgana and Lux have long cooldowns, many mages have poor manuvering. Viktor has all the problems of each, because in theory his Hex Cores allow him to become any of those types. A tanky bruiser mage with high chasing and dueling power, a powerful utility mage with massive AOE CC, or a nasty burst mage who melts down VIPs 3 at a time.

Since Death is the only augment to not suck, he can only be a decent burst mage. He still has the weaknesses of other kinds though. Did that make any sense? I'm pretty sleepy, but I mained Viktor in season 3 and loved him till I got sick of his untapped potential.

Tapu Fini8/7/2014, 12:30:54 PM1 votes

Augment power needs work... It's just furor boots/phage proc, with awful stats. You literally may as well buy a phage if you want health and a movespeed proc, that HP5 certainly isn't helping anyone, and the AD might actually help you last-hit or something >_>

Gravity's range boost is good, but it could stand to offer better sustain if you're picking it for sustain and the extra CC range.

Paletongue8/7/2014, 6:49:54 PM1 votes

I did already post this on the Viktor reddit forum, but I'd like to expand on my ideas on fixing his passive. As OP said, Power and Gravity suck. I'd say the biggest why do they suck isn't just their gold efficiency, but that they provide stats that Viktor doesn't need. Viktor is a mage who's only goal is to deal damage. Even while supporting(where gravity was probably imagined for) he just wants to deal damage, so grabbing Death is always the best choice. I propose that they add flat AP to all of the cores, and then separate each hex core by it's play style of dealing damage: Death for Burst, Gravity for frequent spellcasts, and Power for autoattacks and MR shred.

I remember reading a one point that they were thinking of adding a passive from a key AP item to each hex core, and I thought that was gold and would like to elaborate. Obviously each core would still have a passive that enhances one of Viktor's abilities, but I think that any of them could change, as long as they keep to the playstyle. KEEP IN MIND that I'm overpowering these with the thought of possibly having them be tier 3 items

Hex Core: Deathitem 3198 +AP per level +large amount of AP +Lich Bane passive

Hex Core: Gravityitem 3197 +AP per level +small amount of AP +Cooldown reduction +Liandry's passive

Hex Core: Poweritem 3196 +AP per level +small amount of AP

  • life steal +spell vamp
  • Malady passives (MR shred & magic damage on AAs)

Now you have three distinct items that all contribute to Viktor's goal of dealing damage, each in their own way, and, at least to me, that is the key to satisfying choices in hex cores.

Orothrim8/8/2014, 1:51:36 AM1 votes

I might add, as a side note on 2), the ability alteration on Death scales with your other items, in that it is percentage of damage, thus the more ap items you have, the more it adds. This is hugely important to it's consistent strength throughout the game, perhaps, an effect that scales with your other items on Power and Gravity would help to give them consistent strength through the game. An example would be if Power gave a secondary shield that scales higher with your ap on your Q's, this would get stronger when you had other damage items. I haven't thought of an example for gravity as of yet.

Also, yay, posting from OCE!