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I'm so tired of seeing "why is AD better than AP" threads. Legit losing IQ every time I see one

Real Sexy Yoona·7/7/2018, 3:03:38 PM·67 votes·9,884 views

Threads that say "Why are AD items better than AP items?". "Why isn't there a nullifying orb that blocks AD?". "Why isn't there a hexdrinker that shields AD?". and my personal favorite that I read when I want a seizure "Why isn't there an AP item that has a QSS active?". Yeah lets just fuck Malzahar, Lux, and any other CC dependent mages and make vladimir, Cass, and other ap carries even more dominant. Hilarious, because you would be asking to introduce an item for the mage class that allows one half of the mage class to fuck the other half of the mage class.

Regardless, I'm so fking tired of seeing these threads. Just make it stop. **I honestly don't think AD Items are better than AP items, and it makes sense that there isn't a nullifying orb or hexdrinker that shields ad damage. And this is coming from a player who plays e girl champs and mages for a living. ** I LOVE LUX, I LOVE SONA, I LOVE JANNA, I LOVE SORAKA, I LOVE SYNDRA, I LOVE ORIANNA AND HER METALLIC ASS, and I LOVE MY BOI XERATH. My third role after mid/support is ADC and I MAIN ASHE. Keep this in your goddamn minds when you read this thread that may seem pro-ad assassin but is actually just common sense if you think about it. I ain't some fake mage user that's trying to make a point for the AD assassin class because I am secretly an AD assassin main or someone looking for attention. Get that bs out of here. Not about that life. (I'm actually tired right now so excuse me for some spelling errors)

Mofos like Zed and Talon has to all in for their shit to work and be relevant in team fights. Sure a Zed can poke with WQ but then his all in potential goes down until his W cd comes back. Imagine an ap item that works as an ad shielding hexdrinker. These ad mofos soley rely on their all in burst damage to do anything and if you take that away wtf are they going to do. They put themselves in danger in fights when they go all in. Unlike mages which I'll explain later.

Before that just sit down and imagine an ap item that works as an ad shielding hexdrinker. Zed goes in to ult you, when he comes out and does his shit, you zhonyas to dodge the shurikens. He waits out the zhonyas and tries to do more shit but is cucked by an AD SHIELD FROM THE AD SHIELDING HEXDRINKER. I mean there is an option to dodging his skill shots but why do that if you can take barrier, zhonyas and the new ap item ad shielding hex drinker. Hell if there was a nullifying orb for ad than that too. In team fights you would have your team protecting your ass. You guys always come up with scenarios that favor your propaganda, but a lot of the game is undeniably dominated by sieging and poking each other around objectives. If you have a smart team, that's ready to cc an assassin, they can become virtually useless if they don't go all in correctly.

Now take a look at Xerath. Xerath is my fking boi. He's my pocket pick for climbing Korean solo que and I'm finding success currently at Plat. This champion is broken to me because he eats health bars from half a screen away. Hell even if i miss, my ludens and liandreys still does effective poke against squishies. Sorc boots, ludens, half of morellos, liandreys, and void staff makes xerath a god at poking. I think I have like an 80% win rate against Talons with Xerath because I take barrier like a pussy, play safe early and hold my E stun in fights for when he jumps with his Q. It's so predictable, he might as well do it without the ult invisibility.

I repeat, Xerath eats health bars from half a screen away and he shamelessly does that without putting himself at risk. His spells are skillshots but lemme tell you, shit's easy to land. His W is easier to land than an auto attack. Even when an engage happens, his short cds allow him to instantly use his burst combo (WHICH IS WHY A HEXDRINKER THAT BLOCKS AP DAMAGE EXISTS) Like what on earth are you suppose to do as an ad assassin when their are tanks guarding my ass and you want to engage as an ad assassin but you are getting smacked by my poke. A hexdrinker gives them a chance to all in without getting melted half way through. Even then, they only get to lick my golden ass as a I press Zhonyas. No ad assassin can constantly murder health bars with low CD safe poke from half a screen away and so they need an offensive&defensive item like a hexdrinker that gives them a better chance to accomplish the one thing they are made to do: burst and assassinate priority targets.

You guys are comparing two different classes that are designed to do very different things and trying to make sense of a long range artillery mage needing more or equal defensive options than a kamikaze ad assassin. Idgaf about playing Lux and losing a 1 v 1 against Zed. I know I can play safe after he hits six and out perform him in team fights where I can shield and out dps if I play things right. As challenging as it is for me to play defensively, it's hard for him for constantly trying to snowball and be relevant later on. Not all champions have a equal footing at every stage of the game. Just fucking understand that and play around it. At the very least suggest approximate nerfs (numbers) to AD assassins that are problematic and their itemization. Don't just say "he one shot me so nerf" or bring up these useless "AD items are stronger than AP items" , "We need a AP hex drinker that shields AD" threads.

Again, I main E-girl champs, mages, and Ashe. There is no incentive for me to say this other than saving my own sanity.

88 Comments

SEKAI7/7/2018, 3:09:22 PM46 votes

AP itemisation is shockingly bland and restrictive in comparison to the overwhelmingly diverse AD itemisation. That's the issue.

DW Diana7/7/2018, 3:15:16 PM24 votes

Nice rant there. The QSS one made me laugh, though I cant argue with the logic.

I think the problem is that ap DOES tend to get the raw end of the stick. There is so much "anti-ap" in the game, while so little "anti ad" it's not surprising ap players feel hard done by.

Itemization is a big problem for ap, but as I was explaining to someone earlier, so in a BIG way is scaling. Because Deathcap exists, all ap scaling is made to take this into account. This then means all ap champions are kinda pushed towards getting it. Ad champions can also get to do either type of damage out of either stat, and many scale off either ad or ap, giving them a much larger range of builds available to them. "But they all still go AD!" Yes, and why do you think that is? Ad itemization is naturally better then ap.

I know by the OP this is not what you want to hear, but it is true nonetheless.

Lets have shrex7/7/2018, 3:09:05 PM20 votes

Tell me more about Diana mid fighting an AD guy getting item 3155 Or Katarina Or Ahri

Not every AP champion is a long ranged mage. Not every AD champion is an All-in burst. If an ADC gets item 3156 and you don't one shot it as an AP assassin (which is your job as stated), he'll just heal entirely in 3 aa and kill you instead. Not like Zed is also a super-safe assassin with waveclear and poke, Talon too So please if we've been complaining for this issue for years, it's legit this item being unfair.

SwiftKitten887/7/2018, 3:41:55 PM7 votes

right because "every single ap champ" is a mage with Xerath range...

GreyfellD7/7/2018, 3:08:10 PM6 votes

It happens to be true, there are like 50 viable AD champions at the moment to just Zoe, Vladimir, Swain and Brand.

The only reason these mages are currently good is because they have cancerous kits, such as Brand having huge early damage numbers, Zoe being overloaded and Vlad having ridiculous sustain with no drawbacks. These are all not good examples of how mages should be.

There is currently no point playing Sona when Pyke exists and is better in almost every way. Yeah, he don't have a heal but nobody takes Sona for that, the take her for her powerful Q damage and Pyke can just shred anything at the moment. He also has hard CC on a dash that gives him a much better escape too.

specter4247/7/2018, 3:12:09 PM6 votes

mages excelled at sieging and guess what? mana was nerfed across the fucking board.. one of my biggest problems is the amount of mana i have to use to push a wave as a mage(which got nerfed and made only ludens viable btw) where braindead assassins can use one spell and the wave is gone. eventually I run out of mana and they don't if we both play conservatively. when I run out of mana because my dumbass jungler took the blue buff I have to go back and lose half my tower or more because ad btw or they roam and get a free double kill bot.

TakaDama7/7/2018, 3:42:49 PM5 votes

Not every AP user is a mage (Diana, Fizz, Ekko, Akali and Katarina to some extent).

Atmosphere7/7/2018, 5:18:43 PM5 votes

QSS should have an AP variant, just because some champs (Malz, Warwick, Skarner) require QSS to stay alive, but it does literally nothing for AP champs besides that one active.

3TWarrior7/7/2018, 6:06:39 PM5 votes

I'll just quote my response to a similar discussion

{quoted}

#TLDR at end

statistically, AD has everything AP has but in higher numbers or some more viable form

AD tend to not reach as high levels as AP, but they can also do more than half of their damage for free as a targeted attack

there are very few mages with this capability or reliability for their damage

as a quick comparison: static shiv compared to luden's is 140-280 magic damage and luden's is 100 + 10% ap to break even, you would need 1800 AP

critical items function as the comparison for item 3089

guardian angel has now been reworked into a marksman or adcarry item... AD is useless for 90% of mages , so getting GA would be a niche pick and really only be worth the 40 armor and passive

marksmen have access to multiple life-steal items whereas pretty much the only item with spell-vamp is item 3146 and when you look at it, it is actually MORE EFFECTIVE FOR AUTO-ATTACK FOCUSED CHARACTERS than mages because only single-target attacks get the full benefit of the heal and is otherwise expected that you hit at least 3 targets to gain an equal return from the item as a standard mage

one item that seems to best its counter part is item 3151 with up to 6% max hp over 3 seconds compared to item 3153 and 8% of current hp, but, auto-attack focused champions can apply their damage much more consistently unless the mage has some form of poke ability that does not matter for its use

there are far more defensive offensive items for AD champions than there are mages

i'm not sure why banshee's veil was turned into an AP item but I guess there's that(and i'm not sure but I think it even trips malzahar's passive so he can't have both)item 3102 but it is cheaper than Maw and offers more base stats item 3156

#TLDR: after looking at some of this, it does seem that AD and AP have evened out some, but who knows, there are several niche cases on both sides

Succubús GF7/8/2018, 3:22:28 AM4 votes

The reason why we are salty is because a) dfg got deleted meanwhile duskblade is "balanced" b) our defensive spells consistently get nerfed while offensive ones get buffed c) An ad champion can take null or, hexdrinker and merc treads and outtrade us because all we get is seekers and tabis.

Don't say "Im An egirl champ main so what i say is 100% true!" Especially considering you are failing to realize the consequences of ad favoritism. You say you play syndra right? She has the LOWEST win rate for pretty much all season, she's dogshit, but the MINUTE an ad champion got punished with indirect nerfs they get compensation buffs ahemZed Yasuo You also forgot about the rest of the mages who just struggle because talon can grab duskblade with hex, null orb and one shot you without penalty. Also it's kind of idiotic to say "i play e-girl champs" in the first place because that's perpetuating this stereotype that all girls play x champions, meanwhile my champion mastery pool consists of non enchanters.

I'm so tired of posts like this trying to "refute" this claim that ad itemization is just simply superior over ap ones, zhonyas gets nerfed like 50 different times, and stop watch was even given to ad too, so it's like what kind of defensive shit do we get that's exclusively for mages to even out the playing field. There's a reason why wukong talon and other ads are just too strong right now but you are too blind to see that i guess.

deadlychuck7/7/2018, 9:07:23 PM4 votes

The reason you see so many is because the problem has existed for years, and continues to persist.

The issue comes down simply to riot letting AD transition into a stat which scales both auto attack damage and ability damage, then the lack of unique secondary stats, which just results in AD being overall a more versatile and powerful option for any champion, if given the option. There's no mage, support, tank, or other class in the game that wouldn't prefer to scale with AD.

wildfox997/7/2018, 5:29:42 PM4 votes

your argument could almost make sense if the only AP class would be the mage,actually there are AP bruisers and assassins

i agree mages shouldn't have the same defense of assassins,and so ADCs,but assassins and close ranged APs needs something as strong as AD items

Before that just sit down and imagine an ap item that works as an ad shielding hexdrinker. Zed goes in to ult you, when he comes out and does his shit, you zhonyas to dodge the shurikens. He waits out the zhonyas and tries to do more shit but is cucked by an AD SHIELD FROM THE AD SHIELDING HEXDRINKER. I mean there is an option to dodging his skill shots but why do that if you can take barrier, zhonyas and the new ap item ad shielding hex drinker. Hell if there was a nullifying orb for ad than that too. In team fights you would have your team protecting your ass. You guys always come up with scenarios that favor your propaganda, but a lot of the game is undeniably dominated by sieging and poking each other around objectives. If you have a smart team, that's ready to cc an assassin, they can become virtually useless if they don't go all in correctly.

before that just sit down and imagine a rune that works as an additional AP shielding item 3155 . any AP assassin goes in to ult you,when he comes out and does his shit,item 3156 + this hypothetical rune blocks his brust

srsly AD items are just better,and the fact that nullifying orb works only on AP damage is just unfair,there is no excuse since AP done't mean mage

Linna Excel7/7/2018, 7:36:52 PM2 votes

That reminds me, riot needs to do a delete rework on Xerath. I hate seeing him in ARAM so bloody much and whenever I see one, I just assume its a scripter.