Support has too big of an impact for how little autofilled players care about it

Cujoh··16 votes·1,978 views

In the bottom 3 tiers of ranked, or 90% of people who play the game, there is a belief that you can only carry by doing the most damage. The most common, and successful, team composition is having a marksmen paired with a shielding or engage support in the bot lane, an ap mage or assassin in the mid lane, a bruiser or tank in the top lane, and a tank or assassin in the jungle. This composition provides frontline, peel, ad, and ap, perfect for winning a teamfight. It is possible to win off splitting and pressure, but in low elo, players are not coordinated enough for this to consistently work.

Support is the least selected role when players queue up, which results in someone getting autofilled support often. Riot believes that autofill protection helps this issue, but it only makes it worse. The person who suffers the most from autofill is me, the low elo ADC. Not only do I have to deal with both solo lanes and the jungler building damage, my autofilled support with pick some worthless ap mage like Lux or Veigar or Zoe. Everyone knows there are 4 forms or income for each team. All three lanes and the jungle. For some reason, the support player will build damage items after maybe completing one support items. I often have to alert my support at 25 minutes to buy a item 2049 and item 3364. The role of a support is not to do the most damage on the team. It's in the name, all you need to do is support the team.

Another problem the autofilled support brings to the table is lack of wave control knowledge and greediness. I spam ping my support when they start attacking the big creep wave hitting my tower as I return from base. The cannon takes enough turret hits for me to get there and collect the rest of the wave, but instead my greedy damage building support decides the wipe the wave and cost me experience as well as gold. Now that I missed about 10-15 creeps of gold and experience, I have to fight the fed ADC who nuked my support when they got caught out trying to farm my wave. Last hitting the casters under tower is another gem. Rarely will my support help with that, but if I get the one who does attack them, its when my creeps are hitting them and I'm playing something like Draven who doesn't need the help.

In the mid-late game, the majority of gold should be collected by the player who needs to buy the more expensive items, which would be the carry champions. I would love to AFK when I see a support pushing a side lane, taking the farm and ruining the slow push that was set up. If I try to explain to this subhuman what they just did and why it was wrong, not only am I wasting time I could be using for map pressure and vision, the support will say "muted" or they will go to another lane and dump all their cooldowns on the creeps. When the ensuing teamfight breaks out, we get ran through since the other team has a tank, item 3107, item 3190, item 3222, and item 3504, while my Lux has item 3165, item 3285, and item 3303 (THE STARTING SUPPORT ITEM). The cost of three of the supports items is equal to the cost of those 2 damage items. This should be a reportable offense, but of course I am the one to blame since I couldn't carry my full damage team.

Riot needs to somehow address the issue of autofilled support players. They are a disadvantage to their team, usually through bad builds or poor map awareness and lack of vision control. They also tend to not care since they know their next game will be autofill protected. Two possible solutions to the issue is to not autofill protect the support player if they lose the game. Thats a tough decision to make, especially since some players like myself actually try when I get support, but something needs to make players care enough to not troll with some garbage ap mage. The other option I thought of is to have both teams receive an autofilled support. This would add a bit of balance to game. Everyone has experienced the autofilled support vs a support main. It doesn't end well for the autofilled player.

Hopefully you guys have some constructive ideas to share below, as this is just my opinion on the role.

67 Comments

Totally Not Jinx19 votes

You lost me at subhuman.

There are people who legitimately do not like playing Support. I mean thankfully I'm not one of them, and while I do agree on some of your major points, my biggest piece of advice is this:

Stop trying to control other players.

If your support is not doing something you want them to do, the only viable response is to adapt your play style to maximise efficiency.

Yes, it will suck. Yes, you will get frustrated. Another option for you, especially early game, is to purchase a gold income item and just never upgrade it. If you miss waves or your support-that-doesn't-support-properly is taking your farm, at least with item 3301 you get some of that missed income back. Doubly effective if you're a heavy mana user, because that also provides sustain.

And I really, REALLY hate to break it to you, but in games like this, you're not the only one who matters. You never are. If you spend your energy pining over a desire for a proper support, rather than thinking outside the box, you and the rest of your team will suffer. A lot of this post seems like self-aggrandisement wrapped in a sentiment for 'bettering the community.'

I get your frustration. I really friggin' do. But I have seen it from the other side. Players will do things you don't like. On your team as well as the enemy team.

Another awesome thing you can do?

In champ select, if the Support role has been autofilled, and they are not a support player, offer to help them. Be like 'Hey, I know it's not what you wanted, but if you need build ideas/help let me know.' You'd be heckin surprised. Champ Select is more than just locking in, picking skins, and adjusting runes/summs.

Biggest thing though, don't let your ego get in the way anymore.

Oxyrotten4 votes

{quoted}

You lost me at subhuman.

There are people who legitimately do not like playing Support. I mean thankfully I'm not one of them, and while I do agree on some of your major points, my biggest piece of advice is this:

Stop trying to control other players.

If your support is not doing something you want them to do, the only viable response is to adapt your play style to maximise efficiency.

Yes, it will suck. Yes, you will get frustrated. Another option for you, especially early game, is to purchase a gold income item and just never upgrade it. If you miss waves or your support-that-doesn't-support-properly is taking your farm, at least with item 3301 you get some of that missed income back. Doubly effective if you're a heavy mana user, because that also provides sustain.

And I really, REALLY hate to break it to you, but in games like this, you're not the only one who matters. You never are. If you spend your energy pining over a desire for a proper support, rather than thinking outside the box, you and the rest of your team will suffer. A lot of this post seems like self-aggrandisement wrapped in a sentiment for 'bettering the community.'

I get your frustration. I really friggin' do. But I have seen it from the other side. Players will do things you don't like. On your team as well as the enemy team.

Another awesome thing you can do?

In champ select, if the Support role has been autofilled, and they are not a support player, offer to help them. Be like 'Hey, I know it's not what you wanted, but if you need build ideas/help let me know.' You'd be heckin surprised. Champ Select is more than just locking in, picking skins, and adjusting runes/summs.

Biggest thing though, don't let your ego get in the way anymore.

The problem with this line of thinking is that we are talking about competitive play ie; ranked.

In competitive play there is an optimal method of play. Riot has practically forced this on us. Adjusting your playstyle may be effective in mitigating the damage a bad or difficult lane partner does to your laning phase, but it is not effective at remaining competitive. Your buying an item that generates gold, sure (can't remember the numbers since the nerf) but your spending money in hopes that it pays off at a later time. This is fine and all if your not planning on carrying until later in mid game to late game. But as an adc you need to itemize as best you can. ADC's do have a cheaper itemization than other lanes, but keep in mind your not comparing to other lanes your competing against another adc (who in theory is allowed to get all the cs and experience).

So your losing value in terms of "cost opportunity". Because you could have bought a long sword with that gold, effectively helping you win lane, as opposed to investing it in a gp5 item that only pays off when you sell it after laning phase. So not only do you lose value in cost opportunity (and how that applies to competing in lane) but also in the fact that you will not be completing this item. Chances are you won't even stack it high enough to transform it, so again losing value.

The other issue is experience, your losing experience and thusly a competitive edge simply because your team mate does not know how to play properly. With such a huge focus on early game (in game balance) and the dozen or so snowball mechanics (game balance issues again) it is very important that you get fed early. The loss of useful stats not only hinders this but also the loss of experience can be a huge factor in winning or losing lane. Think of a draven for example, draven is a lane bully who hard pushes the first two waves, attempting to last hit everything so him and his support can hit level 2 before their opponents. This establishes lane dominance as he is able to win a fight at that point. Any further experience leads only secure his capability to win trades or an all in fight, and then you want to additionally remove damage from your carry and hope to win?

Different champs have different playstyles, and we can no longer build to accomodate that, so we have to play the champ to its specific playstyle which does not take into account a bad support denying us gold and experience. The solution to a bad support isn't adapting, it's education. The problem is this can't be done in game. So we are stuck with a disadvantage that can't be adjusted to, sure we make do the best we can but that is not (necessarily) fair.

Tibold4 votes

Couldn't agree more.

VoraciousX1 votes

{quoted}

The problem with this line of thinking is that we are talking about competitive play ie; ranked.

In competitive play there is an optimal method of play. Riot has practically forced this on us. Adjusting your playstyle may be effective in mitigating the damage a bad or difficult lane partner does to your laning phase, but it is not effective at remaining competitive. Your buying an item that generates gold, sure (can't remember the numbers since the nerf) but your spending money in hopes that it pays off at a later time. This is fine and all if your not planning on carrying until later in mid game to late game. But as an adc you need to itemize as best you can. ADC's do have a cheaper itemization than other lanes, but keep in mind your not comparing to other lanes your competing against another adc (who in theory is allowed to get all the cs and experience).

So your losing value in terms of "cost opportunity". Because you could have bought a long sword with that gold, effectively helping you win lane, as opposed to investing it in a gp5 item that only pays off when you sell it after laning phase. So not only do you lose value in cost opportunity (and how that applies to competing in lane) but also in the fact that you will not be completing this item. Chances are you won't even stack it high enough to transform it, so again losing value.

The other issue is experience, your losing experience and thusly a competitive edge simply because your team mate does not know how to play properly. With such a huge focus on early game (in game balance) and the dozen or so snowball mechanics (game balance issues again) it is very important that you get fed early. The loss of useful stats not only hinders this but also the loss of experience can be a huge factor in winning or losing lane. Think of a draven for example, draven is a lane bully who hard pushes the first two waves, attempting to last hit everything so him and his support can hit level 2 before their opponents. This establishes lane dominance as he is able to win a fight at that point. Any further experience leads only secure his capability to win trades or an all in fight, and then you want to additionally remove damage from your carry and hope to win?

Different champs have different playstyles, and we can no longer build to accomodate that, so we have to play the champ to its specific playstyle which does not take into account a bad support denying us gold and experience. The solution to a bad support isn't adapting, it's education. The problem is this can't be done in game. So we are stuck with a disadvantage that can't be adjusted to, sure we make do the best we can but that is not (necessarily) fair.

You realize the meta right now is for ADCs to start relic shield and upgrade it to targon's brace, right?

Oxyrotten1 votes

{quoted}

You realize the meta right now is for ADCs to start relic shield and upgrade it to targon's brace, right?

If your playing on korean servers yeah. But the reason for that is to aid your support so they can rush items. It's not a mitigation of a poor support.

VoraciousX1 votes

{quoted}

If your playing on korean servers yeah. But the reason for that is to aid your support so they can rush items. It's not a mitigation of a poor support.

No..it isn't. It's because it's safer for ADCs. Their build is currently all those lifesteal runes and the bloodthirster style rune. It makes them hard to kill so they can survive longer while still doing tons of damage. The Relic shield's plus side is the bonus gold for the support, but the reason it's taken is the heal you get from killing minions with double relic gives you more of a shield.

Oxyrotten1 votes

Your literally arguing about the same thing. It's a korean meta for adc's. It came about because it let the support rush ardent faster. And yes couple it with all the lifesteal mastery crap and you become unkillable. It's still the same damn thing no matter how your looking at it lol.

But if you want to get back to topic you are not talking about ancient coin, you are talking about relic shield.

VoraciousX1 votes

{quoted}

Your literally arguing about the same thing. It's a korean meta for adc's. It came about because it let the support rush ardent faster. And yes couple it with all the lifesteal mastery crap and you become unkillable. It's still the same damn thing no matter how your looking at it lol.

But if you want to get back to topic you are not talking about ancient coin, you are talking about relic shield.

Ardent is no longer a rush item. Hasn't been for a long time. There is absolutely no way this new ADC meta has anything to do with ardent censer. It is there to make ADCs have health shields early, which scale into bigger shields when they get more lifesteal, allowing them to basically draintank while dealing damage. It has nothing to do with making supports more powerful. Ardent is no longer a strong early game item and it's bad to rush it now. Also, he said "A GOLD INCOME ITEM". That relates to more than just coin. He only used coin as an example. I'm talking on topic because you're saying ADCs shouldn't build gold income items but that's literally the meta right now.

Oxyrotten1 votes

What I am saying is it is not a new meta... It has been a meta for awhile now. It was a korean meta that came about because of the ardent trend. It just continues because it works well with fleet/overheal/etc (some even run grasp). If you want to be technical that meta was created years ago and just came back again when ardent became so OP. 300hp shield works well but is usually sold later in mid game anyway.

I understand what your saying, it helps mitigate the damage creep we are suffering, but itemization wise it doesn't make sense we just have stupid low itemization costs for adc's so it remains effective.

VoraciousX1 votes

{quoted}

What I am saying is it is not a new meta... It has been a meta for awhile now. It was a korean meta that came about because of the ardent trend. It just continues because it works well with fleet/overheal/etc (some even run grasp). If you want to be technical that meta was created years ago and just came back again when ardent became so OP. 300hp shield works well but is usually sold later in mid game anyway.

I understand what your saying, it helps mitigate the damage creep we are suffering, but itemization wise it doesn't make sense we just have stupid low itemization costs for adc's so it remains effective.

It didn't LINGER though. It just recently came back up with the new rune changes because of the shield from the new rune with lifesteal and the fact that the heal from targon's gives you that shield. The reason this was brought about(also in this meta they UPGRADE IT TO TARGONS, they don't just leave the gold item at it's base) is because you get a shield from lifesteal via runes, a shield from targon's when you complete the quest, and a shield from bloodthirster, in addition to enchanter supports building shields on you. Makes them much harder to kill. Either way, it being meta was pointing out that in fact it is a BENEFICIAL build style now, not one that cripples you into nothingness. Some ADCs are building it in NA now, it's gaining traction and will likely eventually take over here too.

General Esdeath 4 votes

{quoted}

Stop trying to control other players.

Tell Riot to stop trying to change the support role because they want to autofill people when they wait more than 3 minutes in queue.

General Esdeath 8 votes

I absolutely hate Lux support players. Because every time aside from once, they've gone Doran's Ring and then full AP with no sightstone and just try to shove and "accidentally" take cs while building no defense, no vision, no redemption for healing, etc. It's either a snowball or a drop of water in the desert. And then they question the mid laner pick.

"Jhin mid?" -my support Lux who was mad at my friend for getting mid and she didn't, before she trolled and purchased 2 sightstones and pretended to have no idea what a sweeper was.

Sergeant Wea4 votes

Oh boy here's one more ADC main bitching about supports. Don't we get enough of this shit ingame? I really feel like the ADC role breeds the most toxicity in the whole entire game. If you have a ap mage support, figure out how to best take advantage of it. The support is the TEAM'S support, not the ADC's bitch

Kaìju1 votes

The issue is that more often than not, everyone on a team will build damage, and when you have four or five carries unless they're all very compitant you're gonna have a bad time, especially if you pick a team reliant ADC.

I play Ashe a lot because I like her kit but she really needs a team to protect her. How am I supposed to contribute if I have a mage support with no support items, assassin mid and jungle, and carry bruiser/fighter top? Sure I can spam W and try to land an important R but at some point my team is gonna tell me to auto attack and the moment I do I'm gonna get blown up. That's a pretty common thing in low elo.

Also yes the support is the teams support, I've told my support to fuck off and protect the shit out of Veigar before because I'm just Sivir and Veigar is nuking kids. But if your support player is not actually even playing to support, then that's the issue.

A lot of people that play things like full AP Lux support aren't trying to support. They're playing team death match and want to pad their KDA. That is the issue being discussed.

JackMcSnipeyz1 votes

The guy explained pretty rationally why "damage" supports are bad. You are wasting a valuable utility slot on your team to be a 2nd rate mage on a budget of a support, while at the same time hurting your team's actual carries to build up gold and exp. But sure scape goat it to "THEY CALL ME THEIR BITCH" as if this is what the thread is about.

Sergeant Wea1 votes

calls AP supports inhumans yeah m8 pretty rational explanation IMO great point

And dude, death is the best form of CC out there. I've won a ton of games for the team after a spicy Brand ulti into all 5 enemies, kill/assist on all five, and proceed to run down mid and take the Nexus. Should you buy support items? Absolutely. All 6 slots? Nah fam, not for the play style.

So really bud, you're not adding a lot to the argument, you're really just solidifying my idea that ADC mains think that the whole Rift revolves around them. (it doesn't).

Whisper873 votes

I agree with you homie. I play in the Platinum tier and only get a troll support champion once in a while, but it is clear that even when my autofilled supports play a legit champion they don't care and are taking the game off.

Perfect example last evening I played with an Alistar and I am Ashe. On paper this is fine since strong front liner with peel and engage mixed with an immobile adc who also brings cc. But we play against a Vel'Koz and Vayne. Because of Velkoz they get the early push advantage, but we hit lvl 2 just fine. At this point Alistar decides to all in them despite the fact that their wave is like 4 creeps bigger than ours (which is significant damage at lvl 2), and despite the fact that with Velkoz in the lane and Ashe's low burst we are at a damage deficit, and the fact that Vayne took Fleet Footwork so we really had to kill her in the stun to have a chance. Needless to say Alistar dies and I blow heal to try and save him.

I explain to Alistar in kind terms that we have to be more careful about engage because of the early damage deficit, and now that he has died to them, we really should not engage until I get enough damage to kill one of them during his 2 stun combo. He does not reply but engages very soon after in lane, before I am even lvl 6. Again he dies. Now I am left in lane alone and die under my tower.

Bored with the lane he has demolished, he roams mid and leaves me bottom. I try my best to clear with volley from a distance but needless to say they push up and he finally comes bot with there is a wave and a half banging on our tower. But now he is a full 2 lvls behind and I am a lvl behind, jungle comes bot and they dive us 2v3 for a double kill.

I explain to Alistar that we absolutely cannot fight anymore and what we need to do is just farm and wait for ganks. Please do not engage anymore unless we have a clear man advantage. At this point the kills are like 10-5, we still have a chance. What follows is the Alistar continuing to engage over and over anytime he sees a carry whether or not it's a good fight to take and we surrender at 18 minutes. I can only assume that the autofilled support chose Alistar because he wanted to be that playmaking engage, and when he messed up and removed that option for himself he decided that he doesn't care to win the game and will just yolo to make the game end quicker so he can move and have some "real fun" next game.

SUGGESTION TO RIOT: Adjust the severity of reports so that this kind of behavior is as big of a penalty as Intentional Feeding is, and then make both INTing and light trolling as likely to get you banned as harassment is. This would make the game so much healthier.

KlydeFrog2 votes

because its boring and nonimpactful and do not tell me other wise because if it was then why does every one hate doing it? then why dont you pick supp every game? its the easiest thing to play

Preljepa1 votes

umm it aint easiest thing to play ,and do not tell me other wise cuz people wont be failing at it so hard if it was easy,it does not feel boring or nonimpactful if u want to play the role,the problem is not many people see themselves as supporting role.Most of them would like to be up there ,frontlining or dealing tons of dmg or whatever and that is perfectly fine. U cant devide roles in league on easy and hard ones cuz each is equally difficult.

KlydeFrog1 votes

It is the easiest thing to play. People just hate doing it. The only supp I pretty much play is alistar for reasons a good pick 100%of the time. Take for instance the last couple games I was playing both tank supp didn't get a supp item till I told the to......like come on your losing gold. No matter what I do I can't stop people from their build and such . Gee they have 3 tanky people pray tell why you do not have Lord Dom ? Ohh wait you rushed useless ie (I find it a bad item to start with) it doesn't provide you with anything really. Essence reaver is better in every way . Damage crit cdr Mana Regen versus something that just gives you damage 9 times out of ten I lost when my adc rushed it and won when their adc rushed it

chipndip12 votes

{quoted}

It is the easiest thing to play. People just hate doing it. The only supp I pretty much play is alistar for reasons a good pick 100%of the time. Take for instance the last couple games I was playing both tank supp didn't get a supp item till I told the to......like come on your losing gold. No matter what I do I can't stop people from their build and such . Gee they have 3 tanky people pray tell why you do not have Lord Dom ? Ohh wait you rushed useless ie (I find it a bad item to start with) it doesn't provide you with anything really. Essence reaver is better in every way . Damage crit cdr Mana Regen versus something that just gives you damage 9 times out of ten I lost when my adc rushed it and won when their adc rushed it

You might want to slow down disrespecting the support role and flexing around on here...

KlydeFrog1 votes

Seeing I get nothing but supp off of fill since they implemented the team builder ranked . Life was better when it was the blind pick draft because people actually chose supp and wanted to play it. What it is the easiest thing to play . You don't have to cs at all which is why it's boring . The jungler and the supp role are more or less close to the same however the jungler gets to kill camps roam go damage go tank or whatever and it's harder and more impactful

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

Seeing I get nothing but supp off of fill since they implemented the team builder ranked . Life was better when it was the blind pick draft because people actually chose supp and wanted to play it. What it is the easiest thing to play . You don't have to cs at all which is why it's boring . The jungler and the supp role are more or less close to the same however the jungler gets to kill camps roam go damage go tank or whatever and it's harder and more impactful

Like, I'm being friendly and honest when I say you're not in a position to be making claims about how "easy" support is or isn't. You need to fall back.

Preljepa1 votes

He is very rude,and goes by ''my opinion is the only right one''.....lovely group of players*[sg-janna]*

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

He is very rude,and goes by ''my opinion is the only right one''.....lovely group of players*[sg-janna]*

The issue is that he's talking HELLA shit when he's not even good at support.

Whisper871 votes

The mindset that only doing damage is fun. That you can't carry a game through things like hard engage or disengage. That vision control and choosing the right items isn't impactful. This is what is ruining the game. And it's not easy.

Support has in general the widest variety of viable item choices of all the classes. Tons of viable items and even if you know you need locket and ardent this game for example, which one you choose to build first could easily win or lose the first big team fight or skirmish per game which is obviously huge impact. Mikael's isn't a constant build, but in games where it is usable it's amazing.

Casuals who just want to kill things and excel in individual mechanics need to understand that LOL is a RTS, not a fighting game. It is intentional and healthy that your mind be as big a weapon as your mechanics. The cerebral elements of know engaage/disengage windows, know when it's safe to clear or attain vision, moving up vision lines, knowing what items to build and in what order. This things may seem boring to the aggro apes out there who play only damage champs, but they are essential to the game and will never go away. And PLENTY of people find these things more fun than mechanics focus. For example tho I am an ADC main, Janna is my favorite supp and utility tanks are my favority top laners to play.\

Also if it's low impact why was Olleh in the discussion for MVP in the NA LCS last year as a support?

KlydeFrog1 votes

Then why aren't you playing supp every game ? I build neither items also I would always build ardent over locket Everytime . And mikhails before locket as well . Passive Trump's the active on locket . Here is the thing I have never ever seen so much dislike for support in other games as I have in this game period . Smite heroes of the Storm people choose supp and it's always picked . But I only truely like to play alistar no one else . Taric has no engage and no the stun is not a engage as much as it's a disengage

Whisper872 votes

Passive on ardent is only superior situationally. Like your ADC is on pace and/or you are playing something that easily applies it to multiple people like janna or Karma. But what if you are playing LULU with only single target shielding and your ADC is behind? In this scenario locket could be much better in an early game multi person fight especially if the enemy team has good multi target damage.

This is one of the important points of support, do you build for the here and now or build for the hopeful turn around?

KlydeFrog1 votes

I build pretty much the exact same items Everytime there is no need to change it also if your going Lulu go with exactly more or less I have my alistar runes . Why u ask having like almost 70%cdr on item actives with Ruby ss is busted . Face of the mountain has like a 25 sec CD ......knights vow zekes right glory Ruby ss face of the mountain Merc trads and mostly abyssal mask. No need to change this ever . Only time I don't build knights and zekes is because of a ex vayne or twitch adc it's not efficiency.

Whisper872 votes

That's probably why you feel low impact if you do exact build every game. Definite times when Mikael's active is better than Face of Mountain shield. And if you are playing against a team that has strong AOE or lacks an assassin, Locket is absolutely much better than Face. Frozen heart is absurdly good against a lot of teams (especially since I've been seeing way more Udyr and Jax than we use to). And as a support and not a DPS or tank Locket is absolutely better than Abyssal Mask unless you have an AP heavy composition. Especially if you are picking runes that let you have more CDR on your actives.

Itemizing as a support is all about recognizing what is going to give you the most value, whether as something like Alistar you should be focusing on peel or engage or both. AND recognizing that you role is not just to support your ADC, but support the whole team.

If you build 90% the same items every time and always focus on engage yeah you will feel powerless for sure. Alistar is probably my second most played support, and I've found during this preseason that half the time the enemy team take at least one or two squishy divers, so I don't even need to build Righteous Glory. I just stand near my back line and combo the divers, my back line kills them and fight is over.

No it's not as flashy as getting a flash pulv or high value combo engage, and it might require patience. But it is still fun and it is reliable, and LOL is a game in which reliability is HIGH HIGH value.

Straight and narrow of it is that support is highly dynamic compared to a lot of what is out there, and doing something like shutting down someone hungry for kills just by being patient and using your items at the right time, or just neutralizing aggression altogether with good vision control has it's own kind of satisfaction that is as good as nuking someone dead.

You all know that feeling where you are just laughing on the inside watching an enemy team trying to find flank patterns or contest you at drake, but you have a vision monopoly and they can't get in safely so you can actually see their frustration in their movements and you see like the jungler spamming emotes behind drake wall cuz he knows you see him and you and he both know damn well he can't do anything about it. That is as good as a multi kill any day of the week in my book.

KlydeFrog1 votes

Again zekes is more efficient and I build Ruby ss with the runes I use to have a close to 70 %cdr on item actives. Right glory is always useful I truly only take face cause of the after shock damage other then that ancient coin active is more useful cause once again disengage and engage and Mana regen

Whisper871 votes

Well we are playing in very different games then. I'd say over half the time I play Alistar that I find it's very obvious I'll get the more value out of another defensive item like Mikael's or FH than out of a Zeke's.

KlydeFrog1 votes

Cc and bond of stone that it providss from the passive

ampheon1 votes

{quoted}

but you have a vision monopoly

And it gets even better with zombie ward.

Scary Door3 votes

Support isn't a desirable role for a multitude of reasons...

Note: I'm not suggesting all of these reasons are perfectly valid, but these are the main reasons people list as to why they don't want ot play support.

  • Generally several levels behind solo laners
  • Very little means of escape or being able to do damage so that when a gank comes in, even if you're well positioned, you're dead
  • You're the first to be blamed (along with the jungle sometimes)
  • You're a free kill after laning phase because of the insane damage
  • You can't carry a game as support (this isn't true, but it is the perception) and people want to carry
  • You're tied to another player... if they do poorly, you do poorly... if they make poor decisions there is often very little you can do to help or counteract it---especially because you're so far behind typically.
  • You have to rely on others to follow up on your engages or picks and if they don't then you're hung out to dry. This might be true with every role, but it's especially so with support.
KlydeFrog2 votes

no one likes to supp period and if its as impactful as you say every one would be wanting to play it. to bad i cant force adcs to build right and stop rushing ie( it cost to much and gives you little in return)

ampheon1 votes

I think overall in most MMOs or MOBAs people tend not to want to support, not because it has no impact, but because they find it boring because they aren't blowing up people.

Source: Someone who plays a supportive role with his friends in every MMO or MOBA all the time (because I'm the only one who enjoys it).

KlydeFrog1 votes

no not really just in league. reason guess what in the whole team builder ranked autofill people can and do refuse to play it but in other mobas and how it used to be it was first come first serve and let me tell you people actually want to pick and play supp like in heroes of the storm and smite but in league peopel refuse to play it and thus hate doing it. back when in league in liek season 6 it was liek blind pick and thus people actually chose supp not like it is now.also in mmos healing is the easiest thing to do ill i do is stand there and click on portraits to heal

ampheon2 votes

{quoted}no not really just in league. reason guess what in the whole team builder ranked autofill people can and do refuse to play it but in other mobas and how it used to be it was first come first serve and let me tell you people actually want to pick and play supp like in heroes of the storm and smite but in league peopel refuse to play it and thus hate doing it.

I don't play HotS or Smite often enough to know the community there, but if you type 'do people enjoy supporting in smite' you'll see a bunch of posts saying they don't like it, or asking why other people don't like it. I can't really find anything about HotS, but perhaps they reaon that is because HotS seems to encourage roaming more, as the objectives are scattered throughout the map, and laning phase, although short, doesn't feel merely staying in lane and supporting your adc since you're gonna roam. There's also the facts that all we have is SR while HotS has like 12 different maps but that's not relevant to this discussion

back when in league in liek season 6 it was liek blind pick and thus people actually chose supp not like it is now.

Unfortunately I didn't play much during season 6, so Idk what could've changed to make people dislike it now, since if I remember correctly, the only supports that were added were Rakan and Bard, so there are probably so itemization changes between season 6 and 7 that I don't know about.

also in mmos healing is the easiest thing to do ill i do is stand there and click on portraits to heal

In MMOs everything is easy. To do damage I just have to stand there, press tab, and then press buttons. To tank i just need to start the fight first and occasionally use my taunt skill. The only time difficulty is introduced in MMOs is when the boss has AoE effects, and you have to move to get out of the way (for squishies), or when the bosses do high damage and your healing spells have a long cd/cast time.

One game that does this well is Tera, since you have to aim most of your abilities, and dodge abilities, but after getting my archer to about level 40 I became bored (and tired of waiting for healers), so I just made a new healer and leveled him up.

KlydeFrog1 votes

let me clarify like maybe a strong term. is there less hate yes why because people actually picked it in the blind pick vices the stupid teambuilder autofiller that is right now

ampheon1 votes

Well, as I said, I never played that much in season 6, but blind pick still exists, and it's usually a race to call whatever isn't support.

DemonBoneJangles2 votes

I have to agree with certain points here, ill address them in order to make it easier

  1. yes autofill is not the best thing here especially because it either uses the fill or support options 90% of the time leading to getting someone who just either doesn't care about the role they were given or who cant play the role they were given this is true in both normal and ranked.

  2. this is a continuation of the hate cycle that ADC's and supports have against eachother adc's will almost always blame the support for every little mishap even if the support wasn't in lane at the time, on the flipside supports tend to target their adcs becuase in their eyes the adc is at fault for either not following up on an engage or going in too soon before the support could get into position etc.

  3. you cannot control other players period. if you could this game would have a captain position that observes the map and pings or calls orders to their team (not a bad idea actually) and there would be no need for support as a role. also this applies to ranked and normal because no matter what unless you are speaking directly to them on VC then you cannot give them proper feedback on their actions.

  4. its really tireing hearing that supports pick mages and are trolling when so many "mages" have been gutted to perform as supports or who now struggle in mid and have been delegated to support until they get item or QoL buffs this doesn't however apply to all mages so yes there can still be troll picks

  5. as an adc if you absolutely cannot work with your support please do not take it out on the rest of your team, its better to have 4 people trying to win than 1 person doing bad and 1 person trolling because of the bad person.

  6. not all adc's synergize well with certain supports and not all players synergize well with certain champions. for example your adc might have a hard time playing with a soraka support becuase they are used to a support that deals slightly more damage or who doesn't constantly try to heal them, while your braum support might not be good at playing tanks (personally I can only play tanks in the support role)

  7. I disagree with an adc building the support gold income item just to stay even and I disagree with not letting the support cs when I'm not in lane, I would rather lose a few minions while I'm walking back to lane rather than lose my towers to the minion wave becuase I yelled at my support about csing.

8 and final one. no matter what you have to be patient with people and depending on the time of day and region you play in this can either be easy or difficult

Salson2 votes

Never really got the whole Lux/Zoe/random bad mage support. If someone actually wants to do damage they can just play Brand/Zyra with proper builds.

Though one thing that should be noted is that solo laners have superior mechanics compared to Adc/Support on average. So a Midlane main playing Brand can do some serious shit by simply relying on his skillshot precision.

Tibold1 votes

That's the problem. Being a supportive support (Soraka Janna) just isn't fun. Since, Riot has released playmaking supports (Starting with the release of Thresh, because his kit was originally intended for top lane). Unfortunately, players haven't found it interesting, and that's when things started to go downhill. They released AP supports. That's where the major problem stems from. Because they were originally from mid, they had kits to waveclear, trade and damage to some degree. They were designed to do damage. Because they were moved from mid, like many autofilled players, they don't understand the concept of doing more with less. That's the main problem to address here. They keep the laner mentality, where it's the jungler's job to ward and that they're not supposed to farm or take kills. So here's my tip: REMOVE AP SUPPORTS! I'm a support main myself, and I believe that this is where the problem started.

However, if we do so, even less people will enjoy playing support. People are stuck with: "your KDA means everything". They don't get the support's role.

ampheon2 votes

{quoted}

That's the problem. Being a supportive support (Soraka Janna) just isn't fun.

*For some people

People are stuck with: "your KDA means everything". They don't get the support's role.

This, it gets even worse when you go 2/1/16 as a tank, but someone on your team only says you went 2/1. Because last-hitting champions is the most important part of the game.

LordGeovanni2 votes

{quoted}

*For some people

no it isnt fun i like the supportive support play style but if it is ever effective riot nerfs it but wont ever touch adcs. worst part about being a support is that riot decided you get 60% of an item for each of your item slots all of them are defensive items after deciding that full tanks with real tank items cant even tank more than 2 people for a good amount of time.

Tibold1 votes

{quoted}

*For some people

This, it gets even worse when you go 2/1/16 as a tank, but someone on your team only says you went 2/1. Because last-hitting champions is the most important part of the game.

I once had a game where they said Report Nautilus for feeding because he went 0/5/2 because he was left without an ADC. It was a Duo Top. Then the guy went in a teamfight and literally bodyblocked Jhin 4th shot and died to it, and his team went in all-chat to ask that we report him.

Preljepa1 votes

Well as someone who is in that bottom tiers ranked vise and as someone who picks supp role cuz i want to lol(i honestly dont feel confrotable in ranked being the one who has to do all the dmg or whatever) i must say that playing Janna/Soraka for example gets really tiring after a while,however it will sound werid but i hate playing as a tank,i legit cant stand being a tank so i refuse to do so.And i do pick Lux as a support but not witht he build you mentioned above,and it works great. My suggestion would be try not to point out how bad their choices are even if they are using the set of items that u menioned,and also tellin someone what champ to pick or not to pick could be very disturbing.(i for example legit get triggered when someone complains about my picks and im not motivated to win that game)I do agree that autofill sucks but hey its League,something has to triggering xD

ampheon6 votes

Tbh lux support isn't that bad, it's just that people who go lx support usually forget to support and leave the poor adc alone.

LordGeovanni4 votes

this but on the other side adcs see lux support and expect to be fighting her for kills and complain when you dont do the mage build damage while building support build.

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