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To Get Out of Bronze for Season 8

PhantomRose··1 votes·9,716 views

So over the course of pre-season I've been noticing a trend that I haven't noticed before. Its no secret that those of us (like myself) who are decent are stuck in Bronze. Now I'll be the first to say I don't deserve Plat or higher, but I do believe I am low gold. One thing that many guides have been telling me is this. MMR is what gets you out. This is true, and I think part of the stress with ranked is the loss of LP and not advancing. Well In the barrel of bronze there is a common factors when someone loses a game. Generally there is one (or all) lane/s that feed TahmKench when he makes deals. I have advice for my fellow bronze players (of course this applies to silver players too)

The things I've notice in bronze over, and over again is this.

  1. Way to aggro, they want the kill and pay for it.. -> leads to feeding
  2. lack of vision ---> leads to feeding
  3. not focusing objectives ---> which causes games to go longer ---> enemy team to catch up --> throwing
  4. no forms of CC --> bad team fights --> losing
  5. not using the minimap -------> stupid deaths ---> feeding Etc) the list goes on, but this is the big ones

You want out, it may be best to follow this advice

MMR is the the adopted rank system from chess, and it determines how well you get. You get MMR from winning games. Here is how you increase your wins.

The obvious advice to getting a higher win rate

  1. play safe
  2. ward
  3. play for objectives not kills

the not so obvious advice to getting out

  1. dodge

I use to be one of those players who frowned upon dodging; until I realized something. Dodging only effects LP not MMR. Yes dodging will drop your LP but it will not effect your MMR. If you keep winning your MMR will go up which means you will gain more LP then lose. So then you ask, "But PhantomRose, when do you dodge?" Here is the list of things I consider worthy of dodges.

1) The team has all AD

  • Now you can win games if you have no tank, but lack of AP will be a killer. Further most AD champs have no form of reliable CC. Crowd Control wins team fights.
  • Also depending on the enemy composition, a tank is necessary. 2) Troll picks for position
  • Generally you will see this a lot when someone is auto-filled into support.
  • If believe the support will be useless and feed, then dodge. 3) If 2 or more people are auto-filled
  • This one is checked by using op.gg 4) If the person isn't using a champion listed as the 10 they use
  • Save yourself a headache and dodge. If the champion they selected isn't in the 10, then dodge. Chances are that player will suck and feed.
  • You can check this at op.gg by copy and pasting the names that load from the game chat. 5) Someone is complaining -This is already disaster for the game. The player is already tilting and will effect the game. -When it doubt, get out. 6) Certain champions are selected -This applies to champions that have a high skill curve. Now not all champions will high skill curve should result in you dodging. -High skilled curved champions will most likely lead to a player feeding. -If you see a champion that is notorious for snowballing hard because people can't fight it. -Champions you complain about a lot because you believe it's busted. -Always bet your teammate can't lane against said champion

Champions selected and why to dodge

These players will most likely feed with Azir Camille Ekko Elise Fiora Kindred Kled Leblanc LeeSin Riven Rumble Taliyah Udyr Yasuo Zed Zoe

These will most likely cause teammates to feed Akali Camille Darius Ekko Fizz Illaoi Jax Jayce Katarina Leblanc LeeSin Mordekaiser Nasus Ornn Rengar Riven Shaco Shyvana Singed Swain Talon Teemo Tryndamere Urgot XinZhao Yasuo Yorick Zed Zoe Zyra

I realize this is a somewhat large list, but believe me when I tell you this. Most times than not, these champions are the reason for the loss. Bronze players have no idea how to play them, or fight the others. But if you are a laner and you can deal with any of the follow, please use your skill and stomp them. But better be safe than sorry.

If you were curious, I don't dodge with all the champions above. It's just an observation of the one's who commonly feed or snowball. yes I know it may look like you aren't getting progress over time, but you will. The more wins you get the better LP gain you get. That's the goal is to raise your MMR. If you get to the point you get MMR of gold, you'll shoot out of the tiers.

22 Comments

z63XnLCMwX3 votes

Bronze is a nice place, you don't want to leave there. Silver is by far the most toxic elo followed by plat.

Deathfire1 votes

lul, never been in D5?

z63XnLCMwX1 votes

{quoted}

lul, never been in D5?

Never, I'm not touching plat with a 10 ft pole.

X0ID1 votes

Silver is one of the most toxic mainly in s5-2 due to them being stuck up that they pulled themselves outta bronze. Everyone tries to one up eachother and feed and flame their team since well he carried gimself outta bronze so it cant be his fault (says every summoner in the silver field) and this same reason is why P5-P2 are like that. Up until you hit that B,S,G,P1, THEN people are nice-ish because they wanna hit that next promo series.

Deathfire2 votes

how are you still in bronze after 4 seasons? is your FPS/Ping poor? add me in game and i'll coach you for free

Alex h87211 votes

Yeah, i started toward the end of s6 (hit 30 a bit before preseason 7 started, back when jg buffs still had the 2 little buddies and smiting krugs raptors wolves etc gave different buffs).

I believe I generally play at around a high silver level nowadays, but damn did i screw myself over when i started. Jumped right into ranked at 30 and lost a ton and fed my ass off, tanked my MMR all the way to b5 levels (placed in b2 at the tail end of s6, placed B5 in season 7)

Season 7 I did a good bit better, and even climbed up to b1 and floated around there for a while but couldnt quite break through.

Though I think season 8 will be the year I get at least to silver (I would love to get to gold but don't know if I am quite that good yet). I've been playing a ton of warwick jungle because he has a lot of the things you want to win at lower elos, Good durability while still having very respectable damage, great in combat sustain, pretty good mobility (although somewhat conditional on W), and impactful CC w/ ult and fear.

I played jax jg for much of season 7 for similar reasons (got to 280k mastery points on him and had a 58% ranked winrate), I would build 1 possibly 2 damage items and then the rest tank and go hard, but WW is an even better fit for this strategy b/c of his sustain he doesn't need to build lifesteal like jax (item 3153 ).

I like to think I'm pretty damn good with warwick, i dont die too often, get good kill participation and map pressure and almost always am ahead of the curve on items.

You mentioned something about coaching, and I know its not too effective unless you actually watch a person's replays and can see specifically how they can improve, but i was wondering if you could check my solo duo games on op gg if you didn't mind and let me know anything i could improve on, if not its cool and thanks especially if you read this whole thing.

hi ìm groot2 votes

Its no secret that those of us (like myself) who are decent are stuck in Bronze. Now I'll be the first to say I don't deserve Plat or higher, but I do believe I am low gold.

While its cool you're tryin to help bronzies get out of bronze, I would advise leaving this kind of stuff about how good you "think" you are out. It reads pretty cringe, no one believes that decent players get stuck in bronze, and the only people I can imagine getting stuck in bronze that got to low gold would be support mains.

I see statements like this alot, and im not sure if the people who say them quite understand how they are read by others. No ones going to take you more seriously for claiming to be over a division higher then where you're stuck at in skill.

Azadethe1 votes

I do. I have an account stuck in Silver that I started last September, while I also have a Plat II, and can easily seed a new account at Gold I.

If you consistently score well, most objectives, 70% kill participation, good CS, and low deaths, There's a very good chance the only things you're guilty of are not playing a hard solo queue carry, or getting verbally distraught by the teams you are playing with, and not having a duo partner whose reliable. When you have to deal with 4 strangers, the odds of breaking through is much much harder than when you have to deal with only 3. If you don't play Jax Vayne Nasus Katarina Akali Fiora Fizz Leona Nocturne Malzahar MissFortune Renekton Rammus Quinn Shaco Talon Taric Yasuo Zed Yorick Gangplank

There's a VERY good chance you're going to be stuck around 50% wins. And you don't climb with 50%. The other champs are more or less at the mercy of these, as they more or less set the pace for all games. For example, a Warwick Evelynn Karma Main is usually all at the mercy of good team/bad team and how fed the champs in the list above are doing. If Nasus is 200 stacks at 10 minutes, it's unlikely these three champs are going to have a good game unless the other team sucks at closing. If Zed is 10/0 off your team, these three champs aren't going to turn that around.

Call me stupid, but I like my girl champs. But most of them don't hard carry, have hard counters (Riven has at least 3 Hard counter tops who beat her hard unless she's like Box Box Garen MonkeyKing Pantheon ). Almost all hard carry champs are either male, ugly, etc (Exceptions being Ahri Akali Katarina )

I do know there are others that people consider hard carries like Ezreal , but what I have to say to that is, they do indeed have hard counters and get shut down often. For every person who 20/3's an adc, there's another person who 0/10's them. Ez is no different. The ones I'm calling hard carries generally do not have bad games. They only fail to personal decisions or major gank presence to shut them down. They rarely lose 1v1, and sometimes require the entire team to focus them to shut them down (when a Nasus needs 3-4 people to kill him, the rest of his team takes objectives. When an Akali chains a Triple, that's a lane lost)

hi ìm groot1 votes

{quoted}

I do. I have an account stuck in Silver that I started last September, while I also have a Plat II, and can easily seed a new account at Gold I.

If you consistently score well, most objectives, 70% kill participation, good CS, and low deaths, There's a very good chance the only things you're guilty of are not playing a hard solo queue carry, or getting verbally distraught by the teams you are playing with, and not having a duo partner whose reliable. When you have to deal with 4 strangers, the odds of breaking through is much much harder than when you have to deal with only 3. If you don't play Jax Vayne Nasus Katarina Akali Fiora Fizz Leona Nocturne Malzahar MissFortune Renekton Rammus Quinn Shaco Talon Taric Yasuo Zed Yorick Gangplank

There's a VERY good chance you're going to be stuck around 50% wins. And you don't climb with 50%. The other champs are more or less at the mercy of these, as they more or less set the pace for all games. For example, a Warwick Evelynn Karma Main is usually all at the mercy of good team/bad team and how fed the champs in the list above are doing. If Nasus is 200 stacks at 10 minutes, it's unlikely these three champs are going to have a good game unless the other team sucks at closing. If Zed is 10/0 off your team, these three champs aren't going to turn that around.

Call me stupid, but I like my girl champs. But most of them don't hard carry, have hard counters (Riven has at least 3 Hard counter tops who beat her hard unless she's like Box Box Garen MonkeyKing Pantheon ). Almost all hard carry champs are either male, ugly, etc (Exceptions being Ahri Akali Katarina )

I do know there are others that people consider hard carries like Ezreal , but what I have to say to that is, they do indeed have hard counters and get shut down often. For every person who 20/3's an adc, there's another person who 0/10's them. Ez is no different. The ones I'm calling hard carries generally do not have bad games. They only fail to personal decisions or major gank presence to shut them down. They rarely lose 1v1, and sometimes require the entire team to focus them to shut them down (when a Nasus needs 3-4 people to kill him, the rest of his team takes objectives. When an Akali chains a Triple, that's a lane lost)

During my second season I got placed in bronze 5 from mid silver the previous season. Had only been playing maybe 4 months before the start of that season and I remember finding those games chill af. The amount of mistakes I could make and not be punished for was ridiculous, and it just felt like as long as I wanted to win the game, I already had an advantage over the average bronze. Think I only ended up spending 2-3 weeks there before moving through the entire division, mostly playing lee sin which I have never mained in any other elo outside bronze.

This preseason I leveled up two smurfs to have fun with. One I played jungle which is my main and ended up high plat fairly quickly, but the other I tried my hardest to keep low for as long as possible. I was playin new champs, drinkin while playing, and I was going top which is my weakest role. Still only stayed silver for a couple games. Then I ended up bored spamming yas top which my yas is actually pretty good and after one sitting I checked my mmr and I'd already gotten into low plat.

My point is people complain about feeders and afkers and shit down there, but its all a 50/50 chance and even if they do feed, they're feeding bronze players. Bronze players will give you every chance to get back in the game. 90% of what traps people down there is they dont look at the game from the point of view of the win conditions, they just want to make their scores as pretty as possible so when they tell their friends their in bronze they can say "But looks at my pretty KDA's though! It's clearly my teams fault I'm in bronze". This does not equate to being a "decent" player to me.

Azadethe1 votes

Kind of an off topic response to the point I was trying to make.

Yes. KDA isn't everything. But is is something MEASURABLE. i care more about aggregate damage or Kill Participation rate than KDA, because some champs are just better at sustained damage(Morgana Brand Karma ) and a good team player who is trying to win really should be able to pull off 60+ % Kill participations in other roles than just Support.

For you to have a good kill participation rate though, you generally have to live more than die, because that is how you stay in the fights for durations and mete out more damage and get more objectives. If you are repeatedly that person who is the first sacrificial lamb and you're not a tank, then no. You're not playing right. When the adc dies first, I guarantee they do 3-4k less damage per group fight and that costs teams wins.

People who yolo into group fight after group fight are the ones who end games with 4-8k Champ damage, even though they were in every team fight, "contributed," and think they're doing more than they are. Truth is, the majority of those team fights would have dissolved into farming and turret focusing if that person didn't keep coming to the skirmish that leads to a team fight, because players who group are very addicted to the idea that "once we're all together we'll go at it." They're less keen to do so when someone or TWO people go off and farm to try to catch up.

And all these decisions usually cause a good KDA to coincide with kill participation rates, objective control, and damage aggregates. If you don't understand what I'm saying..... think Chicken or Egg paradox: Which came first: the Damage and participation, or the KDA. I'm arguing the Damage and Participation came first but resulted in the KDA. The people your are condemning generally argue KDA alone matters.

And KDA does matter to a degree, in that someone who is 15/15 has at least reset their Gold value 15 times and handed it to the enemy. That's at least 4,500 Gold they gave the other team. It could be more, depending on whether he had bounties on him to make him worth more. But he was no 50-75g kill like a 0/10 Support. He was worth 300+. On the other hand, we can't tell what those 15 KILLS were worth, because it's very likely many of them were worth sub 300g, because they were achieved by repeatedly killing the weakest targets..... namely a high death non farming support.... over and over.

We at least know that in this scenario that the 15/15 player at least fed 4500g. His 15 kills could have got him anywhere from to 750 to 6,750g, a huge variance in gold. Now, it's unlikely that most kills were penalized to 50g, but being penalized to 200-100g isn't unheard of, so the 15 kill trader probably got around 2,550 at least.

But that's still a far cry from what he fed, unless he literally went 15/0, and then just died 15 times in a row not getting another kill, or 2 sessions of going 7/0, because the other team would only get the full bounty twice or once, meaning the other deaths would be penalized gold.

Point is, how the KDA is constructed matters, and there's very little arguing that someone who went 19/1 didn't feed gold. Someone who went 15/15 definitely fed gold. A support or Singed who went 0/10 didn't feed that much gold, but is generally frowned upon as a feeder or noncontributor. And that's why people go to the KDA argument.

hi ìm groot1 votes

{quoted}

Kind of an off topic response to the point I was trying to make.

Yes. KDA isn't everything. But is is something MEASURABLE. i care more about aggregate damage or Kill Participation rate than KDA, because some champs are just better at sustained damage(Morgana Brand Karma ) and a good team player who is trying to win really should be able to pull off 60+ % Kill participations in other roles than just Support.

For you to have a good kill participation rate though, you generally have to live more than die, because that is how you stay in the fights for durations and mete out more damage and get more objectives. If you are repeatedly that person who is the first sacrificial lamb and you're not a tank, then no. You're not playing right. When the adc dies first, I guarantee they do 3-4k less damage per group fight and that costs teams wins.

People who yolo into group fight after group fight are the ones who end games with 4-8k Champ damage, even though they were in every team fight, "contributed," and think they're doing more than they are. Truth is, the majority of those team fights would have dissolved into farming and turret focusing if that person didn't keep coming to the skirmish that leads to a team fight, because players who group are very addicted to the idea that "once we're all together we'll go at it." They're less keen to do so when someone or TWO people go off and farm to try to catch up.

And all these decisions usually cause a good KDA to coincide with kill participation rates, objective control, and damage aggregates. If you don't understand what I'm saying..... think Chicken or Egg paradox: Which came first: the Damage and participation, or the KDA. I'm arguing the Damage and Participation came first but resulted in the KDA. The people your are condemning generally argue KDA alone matters.

And KDA does matter to a degree, in that someone who is 15/15 has at least reset their Gold value 15 times and handed it to the enemy. That's at least 4,500 Gold they gave the other team. It could be more, depending on whether he had bounties on him to make him worth more. But he was no 50-75g kill like a 0/10 Support. He was worth 300+. On the other hand, we can't tell what those 15 KILLS were worth, because it's very likely many of them were worth sub 300g, because they were achieved by repeatedly killing the weakest targets..... namely a high death non farming support.... over and over.

We at least know that in this scenario that the 15/15 player at least fed 4500g. His 15 kills could have got him anywhere from to 750 to 6,750g, a huge variance in gold. Now, it's unlikely that most kills were penalized to 50g, but being penalized to 200-100g isn't unheard of, so the 15 kill trader probably got around 2,550 at least.

But that's still a far cry from what he fed, unless he literally went 15/0, and then just died 15 times in a row not getting another kill, or 2 sessions of going 7/0, because the other team would only get the full bounty twice or once, meaning the other deaths would be penalized gold.

Point is, how the KDA is constructed matters, and there's very little arguing that someone who went 19/1 didn't feed gold. Someone who went 15/15 definitely fed gold. A support or Singed who went 0/10 didn't feed that much gold, but is generally frowned upon as a feeder or noncontributor. And that's why people go to the KDA argument.

KDA is measurable, but so is winrate was my point. You can be 24/4/16 but that last death happened from you getting picked at 40+ minutes with baron up, they did baron and your team never regained its footing. Maybe you got your team that far but it was YOU that lost the game in the end. In my experience alot of low elo players look at that kind of game and say god that team was heavy. But just because you got the gold and didnt use it properly to win the game, is not your teams fault.

Getting consistently high KDA's but losing alot of games in your elo typically means one thing, you dont know how to play outside the lane phase or mid game, and you may be good at the early game. But when I was climbing playing top on smurf I was typically not doing that great in top because I was playing new champs, I'd lose lanes but I could still carry the game just by shot calling, and most importantly, knowing how to play a lost lane. If I can make people with far more money than me have to work for getting pressure on my lane, then that free's up my team to make plays elsewhere.

This game is a strategy game at its heart, and I get the sense that the vast majority of those in those lower elos just dont see it.

I don't see it as being at all a bold statement to say that if you DO look at this game as a strategy game, and figure out what you can be doing to win more, rather than finding reasons why its not your fault your not winning, you will climb to at least platinum fairly easily. With decent mechanics that is, but then this all just ties back into... being a decent player.

Azadethe1 votes

I disagree. When evaluating performance, it's never just the last act which is to blame. It's the path that got there. If you are 24/4/16, and someone kills you late game and results in a loss, It's probably not your fault you died unless it's a behavior issue. It usually because your laners went 0/6 in lane and created an environment where the other team had monsters who could kill you, who finally did. You can't blame a carry when the carry's team created the situation which led to their being killed late game.

I think it's rude and presumptuous to blame a 24/4/16 for a loss when in reality, it was their team fumbling the ball the entire game and them struggling to keep it alive.

Ofc, if they are 24/4 with low kill participation and low damage, there's a good chance it WAS their fault, because they spent the entire game robbing their team of kills. This is quite common with Talon For example, who spends the majority of the game sniping low HP's over walls rather than organically high dpsing. But that's not your 24/4/16..... the "16" often means, he was legitimately in the fights, did a lot of damage, and got kills proportionate to his strength. The real test is on the stats page, in the Wards, Damage, soaks, heals.

Shot calling is usually toxic, and reportable, or at least from the viewpoint of your teammates. You can tell someone all you want to get Grievous Wounds vs Darius Nidalee Alistar Swain, and they usually will just argue with you, about how they are tanks, or how they don't need it, can't afford it, or how it disrupts their build. Unless you're a hard carry, usually offering advise just pisses people off.

The real reason you climbed is because Yasuo is one of those game revolving hard carries, even when he has a horrible KDA. Just by existing, you made it possible for your team to push turrets while you had 2-3 come and try to kill/gank you. Your advice probably consisted of "Push" which was common sense even without being told.

hi ìm groot1 votes

{quoted}

I disagree. When evaluating performance, it's never just the last act which is to blame. It's the path that got there. If you are 24/4/16, and someone kills you late game and results in a loss, It's probably not your fault you died unless it's a behavior issue. It usually because your laners went 0/6 in lane and created an environment where the other team had monsters who could kill you, who finally did. You can't blame a carry when the carry's team created the situation which led to their being killed late game.

I think it's rude and presumptuous to blame a 24/4/16 for a loss when in reality, it was their team fumbling the ball the entire game and them struggling to keep it alive.

Ofc, if they are 24/4 with low kill participation and low damage, there's a good chance it WAS their fault, because they spent the entire game robbing their team of kills. This is quite common with Talon For example, who spends the majority of the game sniping low HP's over walls rather than organically high dpsing. But that's not your 24/4/16..... the "16" often means, he was legitimately in the fights, did a lot of damage, and got kills proportionate to his strength. The real test is on the stats page, in the Wards, Damage, soaks, heals.

Shot calling is usually toxic, and reportable, or at least from the viewpoint of your teammates. You can tell someone all you want to get Grievous Wounds vs Darius Nidalee Alistar Swain, and they usually will just argue with you, about how they are tanks, or how they don't need it, can't afford it, or how it disrupts their build. Unless you're a hard carry, usually offering advise just pisses people off.

The real reason you climbed is because Yasuo is one of those game revolving hard carries, even when he has a horrible KDA. Just by existing, you made it possible for your team to push turrets while you had 2-3 come and try to kill/gank you. Your advice probably consisted of "Push" which was common sense even without being told.

Whether or not someone performed well in a game, doesn't mean they cannot be the reason for the lose. If you are the major threat on your team, you have to be able to play the carry role. Being the major threat on the team, does not necessarily directly mean you DID well, this is a misconception. Often resources went into getting you ahead, you had a favorable matchup, or your opponent was just shit. Maybe you did, maybe you didn't, my point is, that getting ahead is only half the battle, and its where alot of low elo players fail.

You gotta know how to win with that lead, and if your team fed, and you take your lead and throw it away picking stupid fights with fed people, it maybe your teams fault that they fed, but it is NOT their fault you lost your lead. The mindset alot of lower elo players have and it sounds like you have, is that your teammates are to blame for everything that follows on the map after they lost lane. Yes they lose pressure for having lost lane, but you are in control of your own actions beyond that point. Basically play like the enemy has a fed carry, walk on egg shells around them if necessary, and if you have a lead, play the opposite side to them, and hope your team can hold out and you can stall out till the game evens out abit.

There are so many things you can do in this game to win games despite bad teammates if the enemy is also bad. Using your teams as a scapegoat for the elo u find yourself stuck in is a trap you set for yourself.

Im not going to say I havent done it, when I was in silver, it drove me insane that I had to play with silvers. I felt like they played at a way lower level then I did but I couldnt carry hard enough to climb to where I didnt have to play with them. But I watched alot of streamers and got better at learning the win conditions and mechanics of the champions I played and got to climbing. But even when I 100% would blame my team for a lose, I'd still try to learn something from it, otherwise I had just wasted my time.

Azadethe1 votes

What you don't seem to understand is sometimes in the current meta; You don't pick stupid fights with fed people. They often pick fights with YOU. You can be at a safe range, or at least at what you perceive as one, and STILL get picked off because the other team has a hit enough to get close enough to YOU, slow you, stun, you and just run over you, all while you're waiting for your team to arrive. As a Nami Main, I excel at setting that crap up. I get my entire team running 900+ Move speed and Flash in and Bubbled a Carry as soon as my wave reaches them, which is almost ALWAYS a secured kill.

The Carry you're blaming was likely a good 1500 or more range away from my when I did that as Nami, and I set it up at an angle where he won't see the wave coming until it's already too late. That's not his fault. That's me being itemized, my team working with my wave, and his team just not being aware of a situation. I mean..... you could argue he should have been at his fountain..... but then how's he supposed to attempt a Baron assassination while his team is oblivious to it, and too weak to deal with the other team being Baron buffed? That's not his fault. It's theirs for creating a situation where the only possible win, is stealing the baron so they can't push, and prolonging the game.

You're not even reading if you think I'm blaming his teammates alone. But they do deserve their credit. I think it's rediculous for you to single out the carry who did his job when the versatility of his "job" is finite and can't 1v5. A Top jungler can't stop a bot lane from feeding 0/4 in 2 minutes, because guess what? In 2 minutes, that jungler is just reaching bot rotation, and the adc/support just fed the second set of volleys. And then his top feeds. Within minutes, bot loses its turret, and the jungler loses his jungle and as a result, the laners lose CS as the jungler tries to compensate with lane farm. You are FORCED to walk on eggshells, but the result is you fall behind 2-3k gold, purely because your laners fed at the wrong times to the wrong people, and there's nothing you could do to stop it.

Yet you're saying that's their fault.

I bet when an adc goes 0/4 in lane and their support is a much higher elo player, they should just stay and keep soaking the crap hole of a lane and fall behind more rather than trying to carry Top or Mid too. Choose between doing the same thing that's losing, or going and doing something different and getting ahead on gold/accomplishments. Such a choice.... But you'll ofc blame the support when the adc dies 4-5 more times and blames the abandoning support....... even though she forced top, mid, got 2-3 drakes, and suddenly has 5 kills, 0 deaths, and 15 assists mid game..... while the adc is still 2 levels behind her, and 1/10/1.

The game is a gigantic "game." There are at least 11 independent factors in it, and they all interact and create externalities on each other. 11 factors has something like 560,000,000 possible outcomes, and it is impossible to claim that any one factor does not have an affect on the other factors.

Stop trying to blame the carry. The Carry's performance is affected by 10 other factors, 9 of which are players, just as they are all affected by that carry. To claim that someone should be to blame is to believe that perfection exists. You're all to blame, but the carry is OFTEN less to blame.

I'm pretty sure you've had games as a Top Yasuo were you handed your team a 11/1 Darius or Riven. I bet you blame them for that loss though.

hi ìm groot1 votes

{quoted}

What you don't seem to understand is sometimes in the current meta; You don't pick stupid fights with fed people. They often pick fights with YOU. You can be at a safe range, or at least at what you perceive as one, and STILL get picked off because the other team has a hit enough to get close enough to YOU, slow you, stun, you and just run over you, all while you're waiting for your team to arrive. As a Nami Main, I excel at setting that crap up. I get my entire team running 900+ Move speed and Flash in and Bubbled a Carry as soon as my wave reaches them, which is almost ALWAYS a secured kill.

The Carry you're blaming was likely a good 1500 or more range away from my when I did that as Nami, and I set it up at an angle where he won't see the wave coming until it's already too late. That's not his fault. That's me being itemized, my team working with my wave, and his team just not being aware of a situation. I mean..... you could argue he should have been at his fountain..... but then how's he supposed to attempt a Baron assassination while his team is oblivious to it, and too weak to deal with the other team being Baron buffed? That's not his fault. It's theirs for creating a situation where the only possible win, is stealing the baron so they can't push, and prolonging the game.

You're not even reading if you think I'm blaming his teammates alone. But they do deserve their credit. I think it's rediculous for you to single out the carry who did his job when the versatility of his "job" is finite and can't 1v5. A Top jungler can't stop a bot lane from feeding 0/4 in 2 minutes, because guess what? In 2 minutes, that jungler is just reaching bot rotation, and the adc/support just fed the second set of volleys. And then his top feeds. Within minutes, bot loses its turret, and the jungler loses his jungle and as a result, the laners lose CS as the jungler tries to compensate with lane farm. You are FORCED to walk on eggshells, but the result is you fall behind 2-3k gold, purely because your laners fed at the wrong times to the wrong people, and there's nothing you could do to stop it.

Yet you're saying that's their fault.

I bet when an adc goes 0/4 in lane and their support is a much higher elo player, they should just stay and keep soaking the crap hole of a lane and fall behind more rather than trying to carry Top or Mid too. Choose between doing the same thing that's losing, or going and doing something different and getting ahead on gold/accomplishments. Such a choice.... But you'll ofc blame the support when the adc dies 4-5 more times and blames the abandoning support....... even though she forced top, mid, got 2-3 drakes, and suddenly has 5 kills, 0 deaths, and 15 assists mid game..... while the adc is still 2 levels behind her, and 1/10/1.

The game is a gigantic "game." There are at least 11 independent factors in it, and they all interact and create externalities on each other. 11 factors has something like 560,000,000 possible outcomes, and it is impossible to claim that any one factor does not have an affect on the other factors.

Stop trying to blame the carry. The Carry's performance is affected by 10 other factors, 9 of which are players, just as they are all affected by that carry. To claim that someone should be to blame is to believe that perfection exists. You're all to blame, but the carry is OFTEN less to blame.

I'm pretty sure you've had games as a Top Yasuo were you handed your team a 11/1 Darius or Riven. I bet you blame them for that loss though.

Im not saying blame the "carry" I'm saying blame yourself. You apparently misread all of my examples, the point I was trying to make was that people who get stuck in the lower elos are often times getting stuck at focusing on their stats more than their wins.

Like its simple, and not arguable, I really dont know where you're trying to come from lol. You only control you, and climbing is completely possible and somewhat easy in this game. There is no way I could possibly tell you every single thing you should be doing to carry in any situation, and there are games you cannot win. All this started with me saying... you can climb, and nothing is going to stop you, if you are a decent player.

I was trying to get across that you are perfectly capable of being the reason for a loss despite your stats, and you keep going off on completely random examples of blah blah, and misusing the term meta. Meta has shit to do with "how easy someone can get on you". Meta is the most effective tactics available, which bronze players don't use hardly ever. I watch alot of my buddies games in bronze and if they even build right, let alone pick champions right, it seems to be basically completely by luck.

This shit isnt rocket science, and applies to any aspect of competition, stop coming up with excuses and worry about yourself lol. That is the biggest obstacle the bulk of this community faces for becoming "decent" players.

Fiery Ducks1 votes

lost all credibility when you called Fiora ugly item 3151

Azadethe1 votes

I'd add, Dodge, not Surrender. but only if the Queue or Champ composition looks damning. Like if the other team is Jax, Yasuo, Zed, etc, you probably SHOULD dodge. Too many variables can do wrong in that team composition.

Surrenders effectively put you back two games at least, so they really aren't worth it. You cannot make up the surrender with the "time" saved. You can redeem it by winning against the odds.

There are far bigger feeders than the ones you mentioned and ones that have far less impact as they feed. But I'll leave that up to personal opinions.

Now: I'm going to go through a few things you said:

The obvious advice to getting a higher win rate

  1. play safe
  2. ward
  3. play for objectives not kills

I think that's far too vague and can be made much simpler:

  1. Do NOT Go into the Jungle.
  2. Learn to rely on map awareness and Champ accountability rather than Wards (If you know where 5 are, and they are not in your jungle, then you can go into your jungle and ward, whatever as long as they don't have a geometry to pinch you in)
  3. Play for objectives when prudent, and when it doesn't risk losing your base, feeding 300-450G, or losing massive farm opportunities.

I know that sounds more complicated, but it's actually far simpler. The biggest reason the game goes awry in random/low elos is because people wander. And they don't wander in areas they KNOW are safe, but rather areas they THINK are safe, or just don't care because they think they can duel (Like going through a warded bot river bush to try to go drake, or help mid; That will almost always get punished!)

Another few tips:

  1. Don't use the same strategy for every game. Some games are better won playing aggressive. Others are better played cautious. Some games you need to throw your entire build out the window and choose an off meta build because the meta will absolutely kill you, or at least make you worthless.

  2. Don't rely too much on your jungler. If you expect to, don't push. Just last hit, unless there's a wave getting erased by your turret or your turret is taking too much damage from "last hitting" minions. Also, don't expect a jungler who is near bot lane to suddenly assist top and then go in, and feed, and then rage at your jungler.

  3. Always respond to drake timers. Estimate the benefit vs cost, and the ward capacity available and the geometry of the pit and whether you can take under pressure or need to kill enemies first. Cloud and Ocean are NOT worthless drakes and can dictate the game as much as Infernals can. Do not EVER ignore an infernal, because Infernals usually come in pairs or triplets, and you cannot afford to have a STAT stacking team (team who relies on AD/AP rather than % damage) get 24% increased damage, especially not aoe juggernaut teams or mage teams.

All AD teams: No. you won't lose right now going full AD. Full AD teams scale much faster than mixed teams, clear camps faster, and gank faster. Furthermore, most core kit armor penetration or reduction as their first or second item except the ADC. This makes what kind of damage it is Trivial, unless it's vs a Malph or Rammus or perhaps a Camille (shield type) or Talon (who has on board shred) Full AD is a skills matchup and early game win. Even late game Full AD can perform well, and although a smart team will have Thornmails and Frozen hearts incorporated by then.

Troll picks for Position: This is not always an int feed. Often, the picks are very viable. You just need to gauge that viability before dodging. Is it a Miss Fortune Support? That's actually strong, helps the adc, and offers an on board source of high HP grievous wounds in an aoe, as well as is low risk and rarely dies. Karma or Leona jungle is 100% Viable, and Leona particularly has an insane win rate at it. Karma top is usually not a troll pick.

I will say this again: The best way to get out of low elo is to NOT GO INTO JUNGLE. I specifically do not normally run wards in low elo accounts because I don't want my team going into the Jungle. it's better to keep the fights to wide lanes where things are dodgeable, wards don't matter, and there's no ambush set up to 1 shot you. I cannot tell you how many times I've seen a Soraka go to ward inside jungle and get killed 10 times in one game doing the same thing over and over again. In the ward meta, STAY IN LANES (unless there's a drake, and then ward in advance!) You'll learn your champ mechanics from hundreds of team fights. But you won't learn what really wins/loses games, and that is Jungle addiction.

Ever notice how when your base is dying and you are put on the defense, the game slows down? That's because you have vision on your base and you have much better handling of your kits when you can move around and target the right people. That's how some games go from a 3/39 score to a 54/48 score through insane comebacks; They other team was abusing your team walking where they don't belong. Once it became your territory, they begin to be the ones feeding. Learn that lesson and apply it to lanes.

You should never ever be in a jungle unless your team is winning, has crept control of that region, and it's 100% safe. If your jungler dies in his own jungler, that's one thing. If 3-4 of your team die in jungle, that's an entire lane lost. It's okay to SAVE your jungler in his own jungle, but it's usually dumb to try to save him in THEIR jungle, because in all likelihood, 2-3 of his opponent's teammates are on the way to help him.

If you learn this, and get mechanically good at your champs, you can at least get to gold. After Gold, you seriously need to learn how to farm CS effectively and not fall 20-40 cs behind your opponent, and need to learn how to use your kits in 1-2 seconds rather than significant "thinking" pauses. If you learn those things, you can get to Plat. Beyond plat is mostly pure skill and hard focus.

Wife In Lantern1 votes

i don't know about you guys, but i can totally relate with the akali. somehow Akali's always manage to get fed like, even if they lose lane, if they know how to play the champion in the slightest, THEY WILL BE FED. LOL

AlexProdsBG1 votes

Bad teammates 24/7 :/

Solicitude1 votes

Im curious as to why someone would dig up this post after 5 months... First, aside from the warding and playing for objectives and not kills, the other advice is wrong. And its clear he doesnt understand what MMR actually is. And all this is even more clear considering he has been in bronze for the 5th year in a row and after 5 months of posting this he is still in bronze...

Lechtrill1 votes

Everyone saying its hard to climb out of low Elo deserves low Elo. All you have to do Bronze - Plat is push. Just push. Thats it. You can be 10/0/0 or 0/0/0 it doesn't matter. Force the enemy to play reactively and constantly pressure lanes and you will automatically win.

People literally just give you free kills and as long as you don't waste all the opportunities that come your way, if you're anywhere half decent you will end up 10-0 in 10 minutes and will be able to 1v3 and just solo carry the game. (Needless to say its generally a good idea to pick champions that can actually do damage to turrets.)

Fighting in low elos is absolutely pointless and its a good idea to just do your best to not fight pointless fights. A good rule of thumb is to only fight if its absolutely necessary to fight in order to take an objective, or completely free. I think if everyone in bronze starts trying to win games without fighting ever, they will better understand the game from a macro perspective and their rank will just shoot up.

I personally reccomend Diana for low elos. She can literally 1v5 in low elos and does incredible damage to turrets. The key is to not rely on your teammates to take down towers and do everything yourself.

If your team wants to fight 3v5 against an enemy with baron and die, let them. In the meantime you will go pressure an inhibitor and the enemy is forced to send 2-3 people back or loose their inhib - and you WILL be in position to do this because you KNOW both your team and your enemy are stupid and will just fight over nothing every chance they get, and you know when and where a fight will break out because you are single handedly keeping up vision in key locations and you will be taking down turrets even before the enemy is able to kill your teammates.

Jihad Éxpress1 votes

Im bronze lost my promos silver 3 times. :/

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