Ziggs Feedback/Proposal

exigentomic·5/16/2016, 2:47:33 AM·60 votes·5,388 views
Ziggs

There are no Master or Challenger Ziggs mains and he's not finding much more success after the changes (especially late game). Even the best and most prolific Ziggs main atm (The Demon Thief), a D2 player, doesn't have a 60% winrate on him. However, there is no shortage of Zed, Talon, Ahri, and Azir mains at the highest tiers with ridiculous 65%+ winrates over hundreds of games.

The PBE changes last cycle made sense for Ziggs and emphasized his strong points while hitting his ability to use his ult. for long-range waveclear and stalling the game. They are in the right direction but Ziggs remains a very unreliable champion with less carry potential than other mids for the simple fact that his whole kit can be outplayed and he lacks solo kill potential despite not providing much CC. His Q is a good poke tool and should be dodgeable but even when it hits, it's not as impactful as an Ahri or Xerath Q since it will just hit the frontline instead of going through multiple players. Upping his ratio by 5% would be fair. I wouldn't change the base damage since Ziggs is already solid early but mostly falls off later on and buffing base damage can make him frustrating.

Another issue with Ziggs is that he's mostly relegated to poke and waveclear (which at this point, champions like Azir, Zilean, Vel'Koz, Viktor, Anivia etc. do equally well or better) rather than aggressive plays. In other words, he's not sufficiently rewarded for offensive risky plays. Ziggs is a painfully slow champion so if I use Satchel Charge offensively to get someone out of position or attempt to burst them with my full combo, I should be better rewarded. The League's primary explosives expert has surprisingly low burst potential relative to Viktor or other mages.

Satchel Charge is a conditional and long cooldown escape (26 sec. at level 13) which Ziggs depends on vs the many high mobility champions on the Rift so it deserves a much higher AP ratio than a paltry 35%. It needs to offer some incentive for a Ziggs do do more than frontline poke/kite while sitting on his escape. I may even leave Q alone and just up W's AP ratio to 70%. It sounds like a big change but given the long CD and the vulnerability it creates when used offensively, I think it's perfectly fine. At the moment, using Satchel Charge offensively is almost never worth it vs competent players. Without Satchel Charge, Ziggs is just another squishy mage with one of the lowest MS values in the game at 325 (Xerath, Vel'Koz and Zyra have 340 MS by comparison). Finally, buffing AP ratios on older champions makes sense considering that mage itemization has a little less AP than it used to in prior seasons. The meta has also changed in many ways which are unfavorable to Ziggs (more mobility, better kiting champions, more spread out fights, Soraka :D, etc.).

BTW: Even if W's AP ratio is buffed to 70%, it will still not be maxed 2nd due to its CD and the area control + waveclear E offers.

80 Comments

Sohleks5/16/2016, 5:02:15 AM12 votes

His Q alone is simply impossible to hit in laning situations unless your opponent just stands still or stands in creeps. After you tag people in the creeps with your Q any ranged character with a functioning brain positions away from the wave.

That Q hitbox nerf KILLED him. He's a little more than unreliable Riot...

Yeah you can combo your spells to zone/lead into more. But you have to throw multiple spells to hit one ability? It's not viable on your mana bar at all.

Playing something that's so unreliable you can't affect your lane opponent is just hamstringing yourself. As such I've only consider him useable against champs that need to last hit in melee range. But those kind of champs mid lane are the ones people usually think of as the ones who eat Ziggs easily.

I enjoy Ziggs and his character but I consider him pretty troll tier even though his ult can be really strong sometimes but that also really relies on ally CC. I'd only consider him usable with strong CC allies + vs. a difficult melee assassin mid matchup (unless as a player you're content with playing a champ just to play passive and waveclear /yawn; not the way to win)

Too situational or suboptimal to consider practicing. But I guess he's just not exactly a solo queue champ.

But I'm just ranting even though I haven't even tried him recently. I suppose short fuse buffs gives him a little more bite, more threat to manipulate his opponent's movements.

Jaygo415/16/2016, 4:22:12 AM11 votes

Again, the problem with Ziggs is that he's literally a PvE champ. There are much more competitive mages that straight up just have more reliable skillshots. Xerath, Vel'Koz, and Azir are all more reliable at hitting the enemy champions and killing them. After all this move speed was added to the game awhile back, I immediately thought of how I'm going to possibly hit people with Ziggs when everyone is so fast. With all these diving champs around, it wouldn't hurt to throw Ziggs some love, would it?

Arakadia5/16/2016, 3:05:00 AM9 votes

His W should maybe give a burst of movement speed if it knocks an enemy away or knocks him over a wall. As if he is excited.

SIayton5/16/2016, 11:41:13 AM6 votes

There was a point in time when Ziggs was really good and pick or ban a couple of years ago. For some reason Riot thought his wave clear was too strong and took it away, despite the fact that literally almost every AOE mage has good wave clear. I never could figure out why they had a weird bias against ziggs doing it but after that he also got a nerf to the hitbox on his Q and that really tanked his win rate after that.

I'd be happy to see him restored to some of his former glory. It's crazy to me that low counterplay champions like Zed and Azir are allowed to dominate mid lane with a wealth of options and safety but if an immobile mage does well they instantly get nerfed.

Bisaknosp5/16/2016, 5:03:44 AM5 votes

he once had 330 ms and 575 aa range i dont know about his damage honestly if you hit your stuff and throw an auto here and then his damage is extremely high and you can kill a squishy with q, passive and ult increasing his damage output is a bad idea imo give him back his old ms and range

xxxMadLionxxx5/16/2016, 6:24:23 AM4 votes

I just don't get how riot did a full mage update and hardly touch this Champ. I've tried on several occasions to main this champ and each time I put him back down because his entire kit is unreliable. His identity is unique, but the champ mechanics are horrible.

Idk what they need to do, but this champ is kinda useless imo.

SwapShadows5/16/2016, 2:53:26 AM3 votes

The morellos change made him pretty good again, he has a ton of AOE damage and good teamfighting control.

Tsugaga5/16/2016, 11:46:41 AM3 votes

I believe his damage is fine, his main problem is satchel charge. It's main use is for escapes, doesn't do much damage, wastes time to cast, and potentially helps the enemy.

xxxMadLionxxx5/16/2016, 2:08:13 PM2 votes

Maybe his ult can do true damage in the center?

Avarali5/16/2016, 9:02:12 PM2 votes

I love playing ziggs, due to the fact that his Q is basically his "charm" so to speak. I love to get the feeling like "is this Q going to hit or not.... oohhhh and it did('nt)" However, playing ziggs makes me feel so god damn slow in every aspect I can think of. I don't think Ziggs need downscaling in dmg / armor or any other kind - but a change to his kit would be desperately needed. here are some examples:

Ziggs 1) His E slows the enemy yes, but the short Cast-range+ slow channeling of this E makes it horrible. It takes roughly 0.5-1 sec to put down his E and another roughly 0.5 sec before minions even take dmg from them when it's put down. If your throw his E down directly on minions, they only explode after 0.5 second or thereabout. (suggestion: increase the range of the cast-range on his E!)

Ziggs ** 2) Ziggs Q** is his "charm" so to speak. However, having bombs jumping over Annies head and never explode is a freaking stupidity. It is currently so hard to land a poke with Ziggs Q in higher elo, due to the fact that the enemy can just farm next to the minion wave, and Ziggs will have a massively hard time getting a poke in because of the explosion area is quite small and therefore the poke is easy to avoid.

(Suggestion 1: Either change the way Ziggs perceive the enemy and make their portrait or explodingpoint the same as a basic character like TF or Ahri. If Ziggs throw a bomb at .. let's say Naut.. he will be easier to hit due to his size - which is unfair playing Vs smaller champs like Annie)

(Suggestion 2: Make the detonation area bigger each time the Bomb bounces - maybe even downscale a direct first time hit from a Q and make it bigger the more time it bounces.) .. imagine this:

1st Bounce (direct hit): 85% of the current Q damage (Unchanged explosion area of effect) 2nd Bounce: 95% of the current Q damage (5% larger/wider area of effect) 3rd Bounce: 110% of the current Q damage (10% larger/wider area of effect) - "It's gonna bloooow"

To put the area of explosion visually: . o 0

Ziggs 3) Ziggs ultimate is so nice - however it lacks the ability to change a fight. As described by others he is an artillery mage. Make the ultimate fire even faster over the map, lower the damage 5% and make the enemy stunned for 0,5 second. That would make ZIggs have even better synergy with other champs, which he already lacks now as it is.

I find Ziggs massively fun to play, but his slow casting spells / detonation time on E makes him massively vulnarable in a large proportion of his spellcasting as well.

Hope you like my ideas :)

Lvl 6 Jigglypuff5/18/2016, 6:19:10 PM2 votes

This post may be dead already, but I believe his damage is being shafted out of fear of him becoming that long-ranged monster of waveclear again where he can stall games forever (as Riot has said themselves several times). Which is perfectly reasonable. But now that I've put a lot of time into mages (that's all I play when I play mid) Ziggs' damage in fights is just so.... ugh.

Sure he hurts, and hurts a lot, but he has to do that with bomb after bomb after bomb. He doesn't have the burst other longe range mages like Lux or Xerath have. That's not necessarily a problem, Ziggs' should have his own identity after all and his long range spammy yordle style is just fine. But as anyone that's played a lot of him can tell you, his damage is WAY less reliable than basically any other mage with no real compensation other than a little extra range (but by the same token just because his snail-speed bomb can bounce really far, doesn't mean someone's gonna stand there for 3 seconds and let it hit them). So give Zigg's the buff and/or quality of life changes, such as make bombs stop bouncing OVER things holy crap for the love of god why is that a thing, or a larger hitbox so they're much more reliable (maybe only after it bounces so its not too oppressive in point blank situations?), or more damage on the w, etc, etc and simply give him a raw %damage reduction to minions to avoid the stallfest. That way he'll still have roughly the same waveclear (or even less if you want to nerf it more, which again is understandable) but he'll actually be useful in a fight and be a somewhat viable pick over.... basically any other mage.

Alüe5/17/2016, 6:15:09 AM1 votes

http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/ziggs

there are 2 listed master tier zigg players right there with over 60 games played...

http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/summoner/na/Dorpi

challenger tier player here although he plays 3's exclusively from what i can tell.