I highly doubt there's a legitimate solo player that enjoys playing with/against 4man dynamics.

1800CANIGETAGANK·4/24/2016, 12:02:03 PM·272 votes·8,274 views

So if you're going to shove dynamic que down our throats & fuck over Solo players by scrapping the SoloQ ladder atleast remove 4man dynamics to remove some of the pain of soloQing.

There are so many issues, & not even a single positive thing about 4man dynamics, even winning doesn't feel satifiying (similar to winning a 5v4) because you've probably contributed nothing to the win while the 4man stomps the enemy team using voice coms.

I can't imagine anyone would miss 4mans or could even provide a legitimate argument to keep them, I highly doubt there are many if any legit teams of players who only play 4man dynamic que, but there are ALOT of players who only SoloQ.

Here's a list of things 4man dynamics can do if it's removed; split up into two duos play 3 man find a 5th Play normals

4 legit options, now here's a Solo players list of options if they want to avoid 4mans; pray to the gods you don't get paired with/against a 4 man. look up teammates to try figure out if they're a 4man then dodge if they are. Force yourself to change how you enjoy playing the game and find dynamic partners.

None of those 3 options should have to be considered for SoloQ players.

190 Comments

ff4sk4/24/2016, 12:24:35 PM66 votes

Riot gives next to no fucks about solo players, to them we only exist to fill gaps for selfish premades.

Hyrum Graff4/24/2016, 3:16:14 PM27 votes

#Show of hands, who enjoys playing solo w/ 4man premades?

######Raises hand

######/hides

Nameless Voice4/24/2016, 1:16:41 PM26 votes

You missed one thing. Why people don't want want to play with 4-man premades on their team:

  • Because they are usually on voice chat and so don't communicate with the 5th player at all...
  • ... except to flame them for any mistake (real or imagined)...
  • ... and as someone to blame when they lose.
Dicerson4/24/2016, 3:31:41 PM24 votes

Solo player who doesn't care who he's matched with and enjoys dynamic queue every day says hi.

ArlanKels4/24/2016, 12:28:41 PM20 votes

I don't care if I'm against or with a group of people. Why?

Cause I'm there to play the game. If you can't enjoy the challenge of a coordinated group as your opponent why are you playing a team game? And if you can't stand playing with a group of premades who treat you like crap than you definitely haven't played online games before :P

Dataless4/24/2016, 8:34:15 PM16 votes

I don't really agree with this. Allow me to explain:

If a multi-player party is on my team in Dynamic queue and I'm the "solo player" it makes no difference to me. At the end of the day they are still going to play their expected roles and do their jobs in a similar manner as would a 5 man PUG. The only REAL difference is the possibility of them being in voice comm with one another and thus possibly having better communication with one another in real time. HOWEVER this is not always the case, as playing with my friends has illustrated this time and time again. A lot of people talk shit, dick around, or even get frustrated and argue with one another when the game goes poorly in voice comm, and this lowers the "potential play" of the group significantly. Voice comm, in my mind, is not an innate advantage. Especially at low levels of play where people don't actually know how to play the game and just mindlessly lane phase long after towers fall, or joust down mid lane forcing bad team fights without any regard to macro-level objective based gameplay.

In these situations, it's really up to your individual skill and ability to work with 4 random strangers that determines your ultimate success or failure in game. That sounds a whole lot like solo queue to me.

Now let's look at the flip side of the coin, a large multi-player dynamic party on the enemy team. In my experience (as a low Plat player) the only time I see a large grouped party on the enemy team is if there is one on mine as well, that's how the matchmaking system works, or at least attempts to work. I understand at the higher levels of play this breaks down significantly, this can be seen on many high ELO streams. However let's all be real for a moment shall we? The people posting on the boards are not high ELO players (mostly, there could obviously be exceptions). I would even be willing to make so bold a statement that, as a low plat ranked player, I am in the MINORITY of posters, and most people fall into the Bronze - Gold category. Again, I will reiterate that this is a broad-stroke statement and I could very well be wrong, I am in no way attempting to suggest I have definitive data to support my opinion.

But back to the matter at hand.

If my opinion, for the sake of argument, is correct, that means the vast majority of games played are not being ruined by the random Diamond 5 player getting shit on by Master tier/challenger premades grouping together to reduce queue time. In most cases a dynamic group on the enemy team will be 2 - 4 players of marginally equal skill, matched against a similarly sized party of equivalent skill, with solo queue players added in to round out the teams. This is my understanding of how the system works. The primary issue as far as I can tell is most likely role disparity between the two premade teams, which can most certainly feel like you're getting stomped by a higher-level player if you happen to roll the dice and lose. (especially in the case of bot lane, which is a powder keg already even without jungler intervention). I however believe that this disparity is for the most part blown out of proportion.

The low ELO community seems to be very impressionable about the state of the game, they probably watch a lot of streams and hear high level players talk about how busted Dynamic queue is, and because their hero thinks the system is flawed, any perceived imbalance in their own experience is obviously the same thing. This could not be further from the truth, but the power of expectation and preconception has a nasty habit of overriding reality. In my experiences as a low Plat ELO player, premade groups have never once ruined the quality of a game for me. Not once. The enemy team had never been so much better that defeat was an inevitable conclusion, and it has always been the actions or inaction of myself and my teammates that lead to any defeat we might experience. If the bot lane gets shit on because our duo lane (or the enemy duo lane) has better champion and player synergy, so be it. This can happen even in "true 5 random player solo queue" sometimes two random strangers just GET one another and play together in perfect unison, other times there is no synergy at all and you just flat out lose. This is just one example of many, the same could be said about mid/jungle or top/jungle synergy. Just because people are grouped up and talking DOES NOT MEAN they actually know how to play together well.

I cannot stress this enough.

I understand that this is a very volatile time in League, but no more so than in seasons past, and I urge players to not be sheep and jump on the "I hate dynamic queue bandwagon" simply because you wish to defer responsibility away from yourself. This will not make you a better player, and this will not call Riot to action and magically make them undo every change they have made in order to placate you. Being good at league of legends as a SOLO player is about adaptability and self-reliance. From top lane down to support, no matter what role you play, even with (or against) a 5 man premade the power is ALWAYS in your hands to win the game through concentrated effort and a willingness to play as a team. If you lose then you lose, look to your mistakes and improve upon them. If you win because you get carried by your 4 man premade, thank them for the carry and move on. Solo queue below Diamond arguably hasn't changed at all, the only difference is the name, the amount of random people grouped up together who probably have no synergy together to begin with, and the expectation that brings.

Do not be a sheep, do not fall into the trap of preconception. Be a solo queue player, win by your own power or lose by it.

*I will again reiterate that this is my OPINION and am not forcing anyone to accept it, nor am I attempting to invalidate the thoughts and opinions of others. I am offering my own unique perspective on the situation. No more no less.

AgentBlack4/24/2016, 3:53:00 PM12 votes

Provided they're not outright assholes (uncommon, in my experience, though the whining on the boards implies otherwise), I enjoy 4-man premades. I'm a pretty flexible player, and willing to adapt to a strategy they have thought out and are in a good position to execute (through voice chat), provided I pull my weight. In fact, whenever I group with friends, we almost always happen to end up a 4-man premade, and we never mistreat our 5th.

Laerai4/24/2016, 2:31:07 PM12 votes

I am a pretty much exclusively solo player that doesn't mind 4 man premades at all. I have never experienced the infamous 3 or 4 man dives or invades which seem to be so common, nor have I ever been ganged up on for feeding. I honestly enjoy dynamic queue more than the old ranked because of the new ban system + guaranteed roles.

In some ways, it's relieving to know you have a 4 man premades on your team because voice comms should give them a kind of coordination that makes up for any individually weak players. It's also funny imagining what the opposing premade's curse call is like after you dumpster one of their laners. Do they flame their friend or just add to the awkwardness by staying quiet?

This is just my experience but I do think there are plenty of solo players who don't mind playing with 4 man premades. It's really not so bad...

Scrimshäw4/24/2016, 3:51:30 PM7 votes

i only play ranked solo, and i don't really care

the only thing i hate about ranked is my team, not the enemy's.

CasterGilgamesh4/24/2016, 4:16:40 PM6 votes

i honestly dont care about premades i main support so im just in the back ground(as Soraka Nami) or front line(Shen Braum) plus solo Q was never really a true Solo Q since you can invite a friend to carry you

BadmoonBC4/25/2016, 5:16:38 AM4 votes

I stopped playing this game ranked because I am always grouped with 4 shit players and I'm supposed to even out the mmr. Sure I can carry 1/3 or 1/4 games but give me a break. This game sucks for solo players now.

LaserDeathBlade4/25/2016, 4:11:58 AM4 votes

Remove 3 man queues too

StealthWarden4/25/2016, 12:38:00 PM4 votes

Hi, I am a solo player and i love combating pre-mades in ranked, it gives me a challenge and opportunity to test my skills.


_ Somebody please save me, I've been captured by Riot Lyte and forced to play against 4 man pre-made Queues over and over again in an attempt to brainwash me into thinking i actually enjoy it. Please hurry before Phreak gets back for my daily PUN-ishment!!!_

Fovere4/24/2016, 2:30:19 PM4 votes

Zedex is a troll and you shouldn't let him get to you.

M Dragon144/24/2016, 9:57:21 PM4 votes

I can't say how many times I have been dropped into a 4 man que as a solo..... At least 60% of the time? At the very least. And of those, I have been put against a 5 man group at least 7-8 times so far, much, much higher than the % that riot said their system allowed. Good thing I hardly play solo.... Oh wait, that's right! When ever I duo, it's almost ALWAYS a 4 man group on the enemy team with our team only having my duo, and sometimes a 2nd. The only way I don't get stuck in a 4 man now, is when I trio que. That's it.

ƒoes4/25/2016, 10:14:24 PM3 votes

The only thing I really dislike about playing with/against a 4-man dynamic (I really never play solo queue, but when I do this is what I get) is when you get that non-English speaking group.

The other day there were people that, I don't know if they were trolling, in a call together, or were speaking a legitimate language, but some of it looked like they had taken everything they normally would have written, and shifted it up on their keyboard (a = q, z = a, etc.). Some of it had English components, but in general they were incredibly hard to communicate with without pings.

Daen4/24/2016, 11:49:53 PM3 votes

Overall, with Dynamic Queue for Ranked, here's my perspective:

  • Pure Solo Queue (note: NOT Solo/Duo, no premades whatsoever) is mathematically more fair/balanced than Dynamic Queue
  • Dynamic Queue creates a better behavioral environment for players than solo queue

I'm happy to provide data on the first and I expect Riot has pretty clear data on the second, but that's not the point. The point is, the following question needs to be asked:

"What is Ranked supposed to be?"

I expect the answer here lies on a continuum between maximum competition and minimum toxicity. If this were a simple binary question, Pure Solo Queue is the logical choice for maximum competition and Dynamic Queue is the logical choice for minimum toxicity. I've seen arguments saying Dynamic Queue sucks from both the perspectives of competitiveness and toxicity, and they conflict with each other pretty significantly.

What we need to do, as a community, is figure out where on this line we want to be, then start trying to open up a dialogue with Riot. It's really hard to have reasonable discourse when we're all so polarized, and it makes change pretty much impossible if we can't entertain the possibility of consensus.

The Deckowner4/25/2016, 4:10:14 AM3 votes

You don't have to doubt. logically speaking there is no reason to enjoy playing with a 4man queue as a solo player

Propheciah4/25/2016, 8:39:08 AM3 votes

Everyone who is getting angry at premades and calling them selfish need to get their sense of entitlement checked out. Dynamic queue is better. Straight up. And this is coming from someone who has played a little over 200 ranked games and I almost never duo, triple, or quadra queue. Its probably fair to say I've gone solo in about 180 of those games. I've been able to climb the ladder solo just fine. I can only recall two or three occurrences where I played with or against a larger than 2 man premade. All of you whiners just want a scapegoat as to why you can't climb, and if you think premades are the reason why you can't climb then you are delusional. Regardless, having the choice to play with friends is better than not having the choice. And don't say that Riot can just split the queues, because then good luck having insane queue times. I don't care how big the player base is, it will ruin matchmaking and create problems that simply are not worth the headache. The only time when it is justifiable to complain is if you are in challenger or masters going against LCS premade teams. But you, OP, are barely even Gold 5 so this DOES NOT APPLY TO YOU. And it doesn't apply to anybody in this thread I'm sure. You can't climb because you play poorly or not consistently enough or you don't play enough games, end of story. Yes I agree, it is not fun at all to play against large groups of premades on the very rare occassions they come across me, but its not like its always an instant loss anyways. Contrary to what some of you might want to think, Riot is a large and successful and they know what they are doing with their game. It may not be the vision you like, but it a vision they are ever so vigilantly bringing to fruition. Having one unified queue is healthier for the game, and I personally am an advocate for that. Even as a mainly solo player.

Cirrusstrafe4/25/2016, 4:56:55 PM3 votes

Let me start this by saying I do truly believe it's unfair for there to be no solos-only queue. I think that people who want a 1+1+1+1+1 vs 1+1+1+1+1 experience should be allowed to have it and not be forced into 1+4 v 1+4. Two players can enjoy all kinds of team permutations in new ranked. Three can do the same or play TT. Five is an easy sell. However, four players have no reliably easy way to do anything together that doesn't have the potential to make a single entity miserable. Finding a fifth is a joke, good luck with that, normals instills much the same problem except that your solo tagalong is much more likely to randomly pair against someone way better because hashtag normal ELO matching, and splitting into two duos is probably not the reason all four people got on at the same time.

That said, I don't see what the problem is if you enter into DQ willingly and with the mindset to play knowing this. I know of this "problem" and so when I soloqueue into a four man premade, I just stick with them as much as possible.

In fact, it's pretty relaxing. I don't have to try and lead, I don't have to argue into the popular vote for or against shots called, and at least now I know these four should have some semblance of coordination and teamwork rather than the moving target experience I'd get with four more solos.

If the four man premade is a bunch of jerkwads then there's nothing you can do about it, but at least it's four jerkwads in unison, rather than four jerkwads flipping out on each other making your team a douchebag pentagon. However, if the options are you + 1+1+1+1 and they're all dicks, then at least you + 4 and they're all dicks is a better chance at winning.