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If you're going to complain about matchmaking being broken when Riot gives you bad teammates...

DuskDaUmbreon·5/26/2019, 2:32:20 PM·7 votes·2,982 views

...Then you also need to complain when they give you good ones.

Obviously this doesn't apply to general ranting about shitty teammates in certain games. We all do that. Doesn't mean you have to accept and be fine with trolls or people playing like they're three ranks lower than they actually are. And it's still totally fine to complain about how your team somehow seems to have recently escaped from the zoo whenever you enter promos.

######(All of this, of course, NOT in game - Bitch about them on discord, over stream, or wherever else, but keep it out of game. I don't advocate flaming in any way, shape, or form).

But when you say the system is broken because of Riot giving you bad teammates...You also need to say it's at fault when you get good ones. Same for if the enemy gets bad teammates.

Until you're also complaining about issues where your teammates are too good or the enemy is too bad, you're not actually complaining about matchmaking, you're just recycling the same old complaint about your team being the only thing holding you back. So please call it what it is - a rant about boosted teammates who can't seem to understand that I can't help them in a level 2 fight I'm fucking Nasus against a Darius what the flying fuck do you expect me to do Kayn I'm a mid-late game champion and I don't even have my fucking sheen yet do you even fucking know anything about toplane, not matchmaking being actually broken. Thanks.

11 Comments

koshkyra5/26/2019, 3:53:00 PM4 votes

There was literally just a post complaining about a game where the score was like 40 (them) to 0 (enemy) and everyone talks about not enjoying one-sided stomps regardless of which team they are on.

Anaphiel5/26/2019, 4:56:34 PM2 votes

The issue is that there is rarely a close game. EIther your team loses harder than an armless boxer or you are positively bullying your hapless victims as they cling to their towers for dear life.

Neither particularly makes me enthused with the idea of queueing up. I might as well watch a movie if I'm going to have so little control over the flow of a game.

Anchobi5/26/2019, 3:24:07 PM2 votes

I do complain, stomp fests are not funny unless I stomp my lane.

MAY I LEAD5/26/2019, 6:47:58 PM2 votes

Down voted this post already.

You should not have a player in your games who is one or two losses away from demoting to a rank that you aren't even allowed to queue with. If they are nearly two whole elos below you then you should not have them in your games. Period.

It ruins the game and right now this game is horrible anyway. The two thirds majority of games are over after champ select. One team has the better draft and they just win from their.

preternatural9/15/2019, 12:51:27 PM1 votes

we do complain about that too though, the most fun games are the evenly matched one, the least fun even on a win is where there's some smurf in teh game.

Kai Guy5/26/2019, 10:59:02 PM1 votes

Yep. Bad teamamtes are just part of the risk of team PvP games. Majority of player complaints on boards are better fixed with Player behavior systems rather then MMR. Given that MMR only really cares about whos Nexus exploded and not the steps that lead to that. Trolls, smurfs, griefers, overly casual, selfish teammates. Basically they only see a deduction in rating if their behavior is consistently makes more losses then wins... And there is no real punishment other just being in a lower rating. For non toxic players its far better to isolate behaviors of negativity and remove that from the game.

Its so obvious that some folks overlook it but the quality of a PVP game is really reactive to the quality of its players. A flood of toxic individuals = a flood of toxic games. Lets say in a MMR range that only 10% of the players are negative behaviors. You see them in games constantly. You can test the RNG of this with dice. Roll 9 D 10. Every time you see a 1 that's a match with a toxic player. https://www.wizards.com/dnd/dice/dice.htm Try it a few times. Visual aids are nice. I ran it 10 times and got 6 good games and 4 Trolled games.

This seems like a good place to call attention to something that could impact MM QOL.

Riots Duoing implementation does not adhere very well to the rules of Elo/MMR. Tiers are not an inherently accurate measurement of skill. They move slower then MMR they don't update after each game, gaps between MMR and Tiers are very common. This is strongly implied by LP gains.

But riot allows Tiers to be what restricts Competitive que duoing… not your hidden MMR. There is a concept of Class Intervals in Elo/MMR that are probability theory on how likely player A is vs Player B when you compare their ratings. This is what's traditionally used to create a "fair" Range for MM. You don't want some players grossly outclassed or undervalued by your system.

MM can make a tighter range, and would see almost no negative impact to the system if you prevent duoing from being higher then the MMR gap MM considers a class interval.

I know why its around. Players enjoy it. It doesn't break the top end of the ladder so its not really a pressing issue. The off games it creates are probably weight in as an acceptable deviation of quality due to the perceived enjoyment of being allowed to play with a wider range of friends.

But you want a MMR MM related solution to lowering some of the games mismatches here is a vaild topic to discuss. Perhaps Riot has a good way to deal with it im unaware about but I personally cant find any way to make the math work when your Duoing system can have a worst case rating gap between 2 duo players that represents 80% of the ques player base.

If any of yall doubt me speak up and let me know what you need me to provide better proof or show math on.

IP Masquerena5/27/2019, 3:30:41 PM1 votes

I once made a thread a long time ago about Rank and Balance, and one of the things I said there was this:

"Most people don't want a truly balanced game, they want a fake balance where they win doing the exact same thing they always do. A real balanced game means that the more skilled player wins the fight, regardless if it's you or your opponent, but we know that that isn't how things work. When someone loses, even if it's a fair fight, 90% of the time they will complain about it being imbalanced, and thus they don't want actual balance. They want a balance that seems fair and they win."

More or less around those words, had to trim down that whole chapter into that paragraph.

420 grams5/26/2019, 6:05:43 PM1 votes

Actually I see a lot of people say it's not fun being on the stomping team either. Sure people often only come to the boards after the losses, but I've seen a lot of people agree that either side isn't that fun