elo hell

Bard To The Bone·2/23/2016, 12:28:41 PM·4 votes·1,098 views

bored just making some generl conversation. share your opnions on wether you think elo hell is real or not. ill start.

elo hell excists. to carry yourself out of elo hell you need to play consistently to your highest performance.

you need to remain posotive and discourage others from from being negative too.

they are y two key elements to getting out i believe if you follow these two simple steps you will have an easier climb than if you didnt. but still, i had a leona the other day with the username ''legendaryleona'' and she was building guinsoos every game with leona. some games even zz rot. a part of me died inside.......

17 Comments

Goosetard2/23/2016, 1:15:19 PM2 votes

It makes sense to me if the odds of winning depend so greatly on your teammates that being slightly better than your Elo doesn't help you very much.

TonsOfGains2/23/2016, 1:34:36 PM2 votes

I used to believe in Elo hell, back in S1/S2. Now I acknowledge that my logic was clearly flawed.

Statistically, you actually have better odds of winning in a division that is concentrated with trolls, AFKs, and "baddies". You have at least 1 decent player on your team (yourself and your premades, if any), while the enemy team has the possibility of 5 trolls.

Think of it in dice. Every player you didn't queue with in a game is represented by a die. If it rolls a 6, they're the kinda player you don't want on your team. If you're solo queuing, your team only has 4 dice, so only 4 chances to roll a 6. Meanwhile, their team has 5 dice, so 5 chances to roll a 6.

And again, as others have said, any hypothesis regarding Elo hell existing is disproved by the fact that high Elo smurfs can carry out of any lower tier.

Apocyliptic2/23/2016, 1:19:11 PM2 votes

No. I'm sure all the other points will be brought up as well by other posters, but if you want real living proof watch any high elo streamer go from unranked to Diamond in such short periods of times. There's a reason they can climb again and don't get stuck... Elo hell doesn't exist.

PDE5 Inhib2/23/2016, 1:38:14 PM1 votes

Elo hell is whatever elo you are slightly above the skill level, but can no longer "carry". This creates a sense of being better than your opponents, but since you can't carry, you won't climb. It's the elo where it largely becomes whether you get a decent team or not. It's different for everyone since everyone's carrying ability is different.

MunchCrunchLunch2/23/2016, 1:55:22 PM1 votes

am in it right now. get A-S rank in every match and win one. lose two. win two. lose two again. win three. lose two. its a cycle. i do my best. i never fed in a single match except one which i played kayle thinking it was norms. i never played kayle before and i died like 9 times. but when i play ranked i get people going 1/14. 2/18 . some crazzy stuff like that. afks are fairly common. lost 3 promos. because of afks. i would have been silver now if someone hasn't been afk. a long time ago. 20 matches or so into ranked i was in silver promos. and an afk. i was so tilted. i lost till i went back to b2 and i've been stuck here for a while.

my opinion aside.

it took my roommate the whole summer. to go over bronze to silver. it took him few weeks to get to gold. a week or two to get to plat.

Jbirdsando2/23/2016, 3:23:46 PM1 votes

I thought I was on the English forums? What? Hello OP?

ItsCalledALance2/23/2016, 12:38:16 PM1 votes

Not in the classic sense, but yes elo hell is that place you enter when your top lane says "what are keystones?"

or your jungler says "i dont need smite!"

mrfiddles2/23/2016, 5:37:05 PM1 votes

Personally I think Elo hell exists, and I think I have a good explanation for why "great" players don't experience elo hell, but merely "good" players do.

Elo systems are all about statistics. The more games you play, the more accurate your rating will be. The issue is that lower ranks have far more statistical noise in them because unskilled players have no idea how to prevent a snowball, and afking is far more pervasive. If you're a challenger tier player, your actual rank is so far above bronze that you're still going to rocket out of bronze pretty quickly as your rank regresses to the mean. If you're a silver or gold level player, on the other hand, then your skill level is much closer, so regression to the mean doesn't have as strong an effect.

Example:

Assume that for every 10 "fair" (no feeders, no afk) games you play your elo will get 10% closer to your true elo value, on average. Let's also assume that for every fair game in bronze you also have to play an unfair one.

A plat player with 2000 true elo will go from 1000 to 1200 in 10 fair games. 10 is doubled to 20 games total when you include all the unfair games they had to play to net those 10 fair ones, but that's still getting out of bronze in a weekend of play on average (no big deal).

Now let's look at a "pretty good" player. A player with true elo 1500 (on the fence between silver and gold) would only go from 1000 to 1050 in their 10 games. To get out of bronze (elo=1200) they'll need to play 50 games, which doubles to 100 when you include all the unfun, unfair games they have to play to net those 100 fair games. The important thing to note is that they will have to play FIVE TIMES the number of unfair/unfun games to get out of bronze.

Finally, let's take a look at an "average" player with true elo 1350 (middle of the pack silver). They take 90 "fair" games to get out of bronze, which is 180 games total when unfair games are taken into account. Even if you play 8 hours a day, that's going to take weeks to get through, and roughly 1/4th of those games are going to be feature an afk or feeder on your team.

So you can kind of see that both sides are right about elo hell. On the one hand, being a better player will get you out of elo hell faster, so some people will argue elo hell doesn't exist because skill will save you. On the other hand, it seems unfair to tell average, silver level players that their choices are:

  1. learn how to play at a gold level (despite not having any in-game exposure to good players)
  2. play a ton of extra games with feeders/afkers on their team
  3. just quit ranked. That's why I believe elo hell exists; the instability of bronze games leads to a really poor game experience for your average player.

I'd like to end with a disclaimer that I pulled this model out of my ass, and the constants are probably all wrong. However, I think it does a good job of explaining why high skill players doubt the existence of elo hell while average players are frustrated by it. It also explains why you frequently hear about people getting out of bronze only to rocket straight to gold or platinum: the skill level required to get out of bronze in a reasonable amount of games requires you to be much better than just silver, and once you get into silver you stop having the massive amount of statistical noise that bronze introduces.

alasarcher2/23/2016, 12:40:39 PM1 votes

U see , elo hell cant exist, as whatever teammates u get, your opponents are same. So as long as u are good, u can easily climb.

Very Hard Engage2/23/2016, 1:31:31 PM1 votes

elo hell is the place in which you make "good" decisions, or above average ones anyway. but for whatever reason your team doesnt listen, and you aren't quite good enough to carry the whole game by yourself. so you're at the mercy of the random 4 people you were grouped with.

your team ignores you, and does something retarded, like invades enemy jungle while behind, with no vision, and just dies on the spot because the jungler was 3 levels ahead of you, and gets nothing for it.

the enemy team is motioning towards dragon, you ping assistance there, you think you can win the team fight. 5v5. doesnt matter, your jungler at blue buff/gromp area heads to raptors.(top side of map). and your carry and support dive in (3v5), die, and yell saying "who the F pinged for assistance? where were you?!?!" while our top laner is afk farming bot lane.... meanwhile i back off because i realize 3v5 is a bad idea, and i would just die too. so i live. enemy team gets dragon, and is now pushing mid. while i defend it, (successfully).

basically elo hell is when you recognize you are better than everyone, and you can see all the stupid things people do. and recognize "that was a terrible thing to do" "and now were behind/losing because of that"