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Why is riot determined to destroy shaco?

Baby Nezuko··6 votes·2,170 views

Compared to every meta assassin shaco has always been behind the curve, because he has absolutely no options of escape at all. All shaco can do is go in and hopefully kill one person and die. Sometimes he can't even accomplish that because even the squishies are building armor and health, so unless hes really far ahead, shaco is useless. Yet, here we are after he backstab nerf, his e nerf, his ap nerf, his tank nerf, with the lethality nerf, and noe his q nerf. Shaco was only good because duskblade made up for all the shortcomings in his kit, so they nerf the hell out of it and decided they were gonna add some scaling on to his q. That was fair. Maybe too much scaling, sure but he needed to make up for the 150 damage he just directly lost. So what do they do now that the 5% of league finally have some room to use their champion? Force you to have a .25 second window to use the most integral part of his kit. Not only did he now just lose all the damage they made up to him, now his q reset is virtually impossible to get without literally being on top of your target. Some lame adc main is gonna say shaco is "op" because he one shots him, but if shaco is op tell me why he'll never see competitive play, unlike every other assassin in the game? He's literally trash and riot keeps making him trashier.

22 Comments

HalcyonDweller7 votes

"Why is riot determined to destroy shaco?"

They probably aren't. Stop making a mountain out of a molehill.

When you make the issue so personal like that you're going to lose your audience. Riot doesn't hate on champions, not as a company nor as a policy. When you try to claim that they are "trying" to destroy a champion you are just accusing them of personal vendetta against that champion.

Stop that, it's wrong, poor arguing, and actually anti-persuasive (meaning it makes people disagree with you more than they normally would).

OG MASTERCHEF2 votes

Someone like you has no right to say that. The players that have been maining Shaco for so long are exhasuted of the nerfs that are making him unplayable. in the history of riot no champion has been nerfed so many times in a row.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Edit: Damn I wish I had seen that the post was 2 months old when you replied to me, I wouldn't have commented and helped resurrect the post. A history of nerfs doesn't mean there is a vendetta against the champion. It just means that the Champion has been problematic to balance.

And I have every right to say it, you can't tell me whether I can or cannot speak about an issue. Freedom of speech. I'm not insulting anyone when I point out that it's wrong to assume there is a vendetta. I'm not breaking any rules by pointing out the truth, because I'm not doing it for the purpose of insulting or putting people down.

Shacos Revenge1 votes

Your response wasn't productive either, all you did was just patronize the OP and try to devalue his experience and opinion. What for? Why does it effect you so much, to be honest? A lot of us are experiencing this as an issue, rather than try to ghost us and encourage Riot to make these changes, why not encourage Riot to listen to their playerbase and stop defaming us? We're in this together, you know. It's only a matter of time before changes Riot make effect the way you enjoy and play the game and someone will come along and say that you're making a mountain out of a molehill as well.

Personally, I've been dealing with this with all of my favourite champions and playstyles, they're pretty much nonexistant at this point. Old Heimer is gone, Urgot, Gangplank, Shaco has been nerfed into infinity, all of the playstyles and champions that I was attached to and made this game so incredibly fun have been changed so much that I can't recognize them anymore.

It's sad, but nothing you can do about it except try to make your voices heard, or else you're the one that's next to be effected by this sort of game design philosophy.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

[{quoted}](name=ShaQ Sparrow,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ljep9eHG,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-28T08:50:57.941+0000)

Your response wasn't productive either, all you did was just patronize the OP and try to devalue his experience and opinion.

I did no such thing. I said that it is wrong to assume that Riot has a vendetta against shaco. That's all.

MrHaZeYo4 votes

Shaco has been a T1 Jungler for close to two months now.

I stopped reading once I saw you say he's useless.

skoulker2 votes

He's been tier one because of the indirect buffs to him, along with the champs he was countered by not being in the meta. The poor state of the jungle does not mean he is overpowered.

MrHaZeYo1 votes

He's been a strong solo queue jungler. He's also one of the only assassin's that don't have that stupid delay to kill someone. A good shako can make dam near any other jungler useless during the early game with his invades and he has stupid strong early gank pressure. You're right that's not strong at all...

skoulker1 votes

Yeah all those assassins that need time to kill someone Khazix Evelynn JarvanIV LeeSin Kayn . Also shaco trades his trash tier late game for an above average early. A fair trade if you think about it.

MrHaZeYo1 votes

Shaco is one of the better early game jungler.

Neither Lee nor J4 are "assassins" they are bruisers and both can be stifled by a good Shaco who also has strong early ganks. Lee also falls off late game, more so then Shaco if they're both built like glass cannons. If Lee builds like a bruiser, he still falls off. Shaco will always do his damage and in solo queue play he can easily get assassinations while still being a strong split pusher. J4 has to choose damage (which falls off), bruiser, or straight tank. The difference between the 3 is Shaco can straight kill you from Invis before you have anytime to react.

Kayn while annoying again can be played around, he also has a stupid weak early game, which grants him a stronger late game but like Shaco, Kha, and Rengo he isn't a strong team fighter in his Assassin form, while he is fairly good in his Bruiser form he won't be assassinating anyone.

Kha has mechanics in his kit that make him hard to play around teamfights as well and like Shaco he tends to fall off, he doesn't have the killer split pushing and his early game ganking isn't as strong.

Eve is another beast in herself but she is awful pre-6 unlike Shaco and has the same upside as Shaco in the later games (attacking from Invis), she is just as bad in teamfights and again lacks the split pushing upside.

On point though, Shacos nerfs finally knocked him out of the top Tier into the 2nd Tier and the 4th overall Solo Queue Jungler Plat+ while Kha has moved up to the 1st Tier and is placed 2nd Overall behind only WW (Xin being the 3rd).

Eve is in the 3rd Tier, Lee, J4, and Kayn in the 5th.

It's about time for Shaco to free fall down the list, I'd personally rather play around Kha, Kayn, J4, and Lee. I hate Eve to much at least I don't have to worry about her until she's past 6 and she's easy to set back. Shaco is annoying at literally all times of the game.

skoulker1 votes

You or your teammates must not be building item 3047 item 3026 item 3190 . Build these items and watch Shaco try to do anything. Also my point about j4 and lee is that they have utility late game (Kick and wall) while shaco has nothing. So they both have an absurd early game and trade what? even if the j4 is 0/14 at 20 minutes he can still wall in a carry with no sums and get a pick. Lee can also insec or kick someone into his team for a pick (this takes much more skill). Shaco gets an okay early game for the chance to pray the enemy doesn't build smart. If he gets fed enough sure it's a free win, but if it's an even game to even be useful in the mid/late game is a challenge.

MrHaZeYo1 votes

Except all of those items hinder a proper built J4 and Lee as well. Not to mention Lee lost a lot of power with the Tracker Knife Removal. Caitlyn Corki Ezreal Kalista Lucian Tristana can all get out of a J4 wall while Xayah can just ult. You also see a J4 coming, he's not invis and while Tabi and GA do hinder his assassination (Shaco), they don't completely stop it. Locket also makes all assassins and most divers weaker in general (Meaning Shaco, Kha, Eve, Zed, Talon, Rengo, Vi, Lee, J4, etc) (as does GA and Tabi). So making Shaco seem weaker due to those 3 items but not including the effects it has on Lee, J4 and the rest as well is just bias. Lee and J4 are seen, they have to usually go up the gut to get their utility off, which means a simple Janna Tornado or ult, or Lulu Polymorph/Ult or Nami Bubble/Ult, Thresh Flay, TK devour, Taric Ult much more simple in countering those campions.

Dead flag blues4 votes

Zed "Let's compensate him for the item 3147 because he can make mad playz"

Shaco "Let's nerf him because he's items-dependant and item 3147 got nerfed"

Ixoziel2 votes

Because he's incredibly stupid to play against? IMO there are healthy assassins like Eve, Akali or Zed and then there are champs like Shaco and Rengar that can either oneshot your squishies or they're useless. In competitive play tanks are extremely prevalent and the support can pick something like Lulu or Janna to shut Shaco / Rengar down. In solo queue most supports won't do that or the shaco / rengar pick might come later in the draft, and then as an ADC you're just screwed unless you rush guardian angel / death's dance / whatever. Rushing those items severely gimps your damage and effectiveness at fighting all the other champions, so you're often better off just hoping that their Shaco / Rengar is a mong.

BroLane1 votes

{quoted}

Because he's incredibly stupid to play against? IMO there are healthy assassins like Eve, Akali or Zed and then there are champs like Shaco and Rengar that can either oneshot your squishies or they're useless. In competitive play tanks are extremely prevalent and the support can pick something like Lulu or Janna to shut Shaco / Rengar down. In solo queue most supports won't do that or the shaco / rengar pick might come later in the draft, and then as an ADC you're just screwed unless you rush guardian angel / death's dance / whatever. Rushing those items severely gimps your damage and effectiveness at fighting all the other champions, so you're often better off just hoping that their Shaco / Rengar is a mong.

zed got over buffed this patch.

Colgate Gator2 votes

{quoted}

shaco is useless.

http://champion.gg/champion/shaco/Jungle?

kek

trunoob4132 votes

Honestly I really want to like shaco but just can't used to be my main at one point but back when they removed the damage on his q too many people that would of died now lived with 1 hit left and as a champion who falls behind hard if not fed that made ganks more unreliable plus then the duration of q nerfed early levels so now its nearly impossible to even get to people before they see you early on made him not fun to play. I felt like the buff after the duskblade nerf was a step in the right direction still kinda felt like he needed more changes but yup, just getting ridiculous.

Wouldn't say he's useless but it's just not fun playing a champ that requires 10x the skill with half the reward. And whoever say's he's easy to play hasn't played him before :p.

I know lot's of people say the buff to his q was to strong damage wise but i don't really think so when I felt he needed a buff before the duskblade nerf and the fact that you need items to make it do any kind of decent damage. So basically we're back to forcing to max q just to even make the skill useable because there's no way anyone is going to let you get ontop of thjem when they should see you before you deceive to even get to them within .25 but also lose out on e damage because we can no longer max it like we used to before the damage removeal of damage on q and duration going up per level.

Shaco was much more enjoyable/ fun when his q was always 3.5 seconds but had damage and maxing e was the way to go. Hard to have sucessful ganks on a person that needs them to survive when literally none of his skills are useful for the first 10 minutes of game. What ends up happening is you don't max q you never get in range to auto, so you put a few points into it but then you lose out on damage on e so you're e does so little damage that it doesn't really make much difference . Even with the extra damage from e based on missing health i've seen way to many people survive when having only about 100 health because i only have 1-2 points in it.

His q bonus ratios might be fine now but he could really use a buff to the flat ratio, 10 per rank is pretty low and the only other abilities i've seen with that low tend to be more spamable or multi hitting (maybe auto attack resets too but they aren't the main engage skill). The .25 window is way to low after exiting stealth so you need 3 points in q to make it useable for a 20 damage increase from rank 1-3? yes you get the stealth duration but you actually need the duration to even get ontop of people to even get that whole 30 points of damage from having a level 3 skill... Even before the .25 window you still needed the points in q since no one is just going to let shaco walk up to them. Probably could still use a buff somewhere else too though but eh definitly needs something somewhere.

DuskDaUmbreon2 votes

Hun. They just buffed him. They reverted part of the buff.

They're not "destroying him". They're bringing him in line.

5050BS1 votes

Shaco needs a Rework. He is Toxic to the game.

Baby Nezuko1 votes

I'm seeing a bunch of "Shacos good cause he has a high win rate in solo queue!!!!" Yes, well considering he's literally only played by one tricks in a game mode where people do not cooperate at all doesn't say much. Shaco has a 4% pick rate, and basing your nerfs off of that tiny amount of players is ridiculous. you can "kek" all you like, but the fact is shaco isn't a good champion. He never has, and will not see competitive play because against a coordinated team rather than monkeys hes so easy to deal with. They also didn't revert him, they de-compensated him after they nerfed his core item. Not to mention he no longer gets the 2.5 second cooldown reduction anymore either, so it's just a flat nerf on him period. I don't see where anyone is confused here.

Baby Nezuko1 votes

And hell if we're using winrate to decide whether or not a champion is op, how about ezreal? He has a 51% winrate while also being the top played champion in the game at 41%, almost 20% more than second place. Is ezreal completely overpowered? Or is it just more likely that there's a bunch of monkey adc mains who won't buy a sweeper when there's a shaco in the game?

Gabresol1 votes

The reason for that is really easy. Riot does not undestand how thh champs works. Shaco is at the same time overpowered and weak. Sounds dumb? Maybe. Let's get into that.

Shaco is weak, because his base damage is laughable and his scaling is just as low. However, since he synergizes really well with Sudden Impact and Lethality overall and can take ignite instead of flash, he can make up for that a little bit, but not enough to make his damage come close to what other junglers hit iwth in early game. No. He needs items. To be specific. He needs item 3147 . THIS item is the most stupid powerspike in the game. If you are playing rock paper scissors against Shaco, once he has this item he basicly has the fourth option to use acid. The ridicioulus burst he gains with duskblade and sudden impact together with the amount of possabilities he has play his gank thanks to his Q AND the slow on duskblade which allows him to hit his backstab with ease can turn him into the most terrifying jungler in the game.

HOWEVER... He needs to get there. And their lies is gigantic weakness. He is forced to start with his w which makes invading him quite simple and even if you only manage to trigger hix boxes, you can call it worth, because he then needs ages for his clear and will loose quite the amount of health. His Q as a joke on early levels and as long as you do not get cocky with your pushing and keep the jungle warded, a teemo jungle is more dangerous than him. His E damage is a joke and the slow really weak and you can see where he places his boxes as well as some champions like renekton and Gnar can even use them to escape, because it is around 1.5 secounds after placing them they are even able to get triggered.

And if you manage to not get killed by him, by not overstaying, invading him, know how to place your wards or just have good map awareness, he will miss his powerspike and he will get duskblade once the game is basicly over.

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