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CertainlyT Champions

BULLSEYE89·8/15/2018, 7:17:21 AM·27 votes·12,505 views

Now, don’t get me wrong, I personally do not think CertainlyT champs are broken or OP. Not many people even hate him, they just find his champs to be ANNOYING, mind you, not super strong, just ANNOYING. I personally like his designs. The problem I have (or most people probably do) with said champions isn’t in their strengths, it’s in that:- They are completely unfun to play against and have a frustrating mechanic on some/every part of their kit.

Their success is heavily dependent on the skill of the person playing them, not the skill of the person playing against them.

Now, the first is self-explanatory. The second is where people are divided, with mains saying X champ has a high skill ceiling. But, what they don’t seem to acknowledge is that, due to the high skill ceiling, the possibilities of counterplay have been shrunk down considerably. Yes, they have weaknesses, but they are so generic that they can be applied to almost every other champion who plays that role. So, there is basically no tradeoff (specific weakness ) for their specific power. This is why people will always complain about Yasuo /Zoe . Though it feels awesome to get a clutch windwall, it feels bad for the guy who wasted his ult cooldown for an ability that costs no mana, and only has a 20 second cooldown.

While his ideas/concepts are good and different, his track record is against him. Yes, he worked on the Warwick rework, which I think was just purely amazing, and he designed Thresh , who might have an overloaded kit, but is decent, requires skill, and is a great champion by design, thematically and visually. Personally I think the reason his champs aren’t easy to balance are:- They all have a high skill ceiling (Yasuo Zoe Kalista ), but to make sure people want to invest enough time in them, the champs are given some broken ability or other (windwall, spellthief, passive hop). Now, you probably might have noticed a pattern here - The abilities don’t deal any dmg

bcos of this, the damage has to be redistributed to other abilities, so that the champ doesn’t feel underwhelming (all are carries). But, instead of trading dmg for said mechanic, the champ is gven an insane amt. of dmg frontloaded onto one ability (Zoe Q, Kalista E). In this regard Yasuo is comparatively ~~better ~~ worse(he does absurd dmg on all fronts). Now, unique mechanics and new ideas are welcome in league, but they shouldn’t come at the cost of fun, should they?

Thus, I’d like to make a few suggestions (things in () need not be taken seriously) –

Keep Zoe ’s W, but make it so that she doesn’t get summoners or items that deal dmg, and she gets It only from champions For example, she has flash and ignite. This should mean her W cannot give her a cast of the same ignite, but give her flash. (And give it a cooldown of like 65 sec or something). And, keep the drops alternate. For example, if she got a summoner on her first use, then the next drop should give her an item only, and vice versa.( also decrease the dmg from E-Q combo)

Yasuo is a champion whose counterplay is based on window of opportunity (whirlwind, windwall, flow shield). Thus, give his W an increased cooldown (like 50s or something, but it refunds 50% of the cooldown if it blocks an ultimate ability). Also remove the escalating dmg on E (he gets unlimited mobility from it, why the dmg too). And when he casts his ult, he should be behind his target, regardless of whether he is in tower range or not.

Note that all these changes are targeted at dmg, not on the ability itself. This is basically killing 2 birds with one stone –

The champ gets to keep his/her uniqueness.

It puts a stop to the hyper dmg meta.

P.S. - i honestly cudnt think of any changes to Kalista. any suggestions from Kalista players? would you like to keep her hop mechanic and structure the rest of her kit around it or would you just rather remove it and add something new to her passive?? discussions are welcomed.

Edit :- For yasuo, his W can stay as it is, but then his ult should grant the bonus armor pen for 5 sec only, not 15, and only against targets who were knocked up by yas. this wud be better for him (shorter window of strength in teamfights, more skill = more reward). if he still is on the strong side, consider giving flow cost to 3rd Q(10%) and W(50%).

Edit 2:- Sry for the late edit. I just realized, i couldn't balance Zoe 's W, no matter what change i made, bcos W was a utility spell on a burst mage, that was RNG based. i realized that even though i removed the RNG element from that part of her kit, to an extent, it wouldn't be enough. so, i thought, why not make W a 2 part ability.

for example, her W has 2 halves, one for dealing dmg and the other is the present W(with the proposed changes). she can cast one half before the ability goes on cooldown. i cudnt brainstorm any ideas for the dmg half, so suggestions are welcome. a few conditions though-

the spell should be single target only( doesn't feel overwhelming in teamfights) the spell should have considerably short range( so she chooses to cast W or Q during trades)

my idea is to shift some of the high power from E-Q combo to this W so that she deals the same amt of dmg, just its not frontloaded onto one or two abilities. so, pls suggest some ideas. again, sry for the late edit.

36 Comments

CppL8/15/2018, 8:33:44 AM15 votes

"Now, don’t get me wrong, I personally do not think CertainlyT champs are broken or OP" what are you talking about? 90% of his champs are broken ,op or overloaded as fuck...

Kai Guy8/15/2018, 8:33:25 AM6 votes

I wont deny that there is merit that a lot of CT champs have mechanics that allow for them to overcome weaknesses and that that this is lacking in several other champions kits. Yet a lot of the way players chose to deal with this typically shows no understanding of said champions kits. Examples, Blowing your entire kit into windwall? That's a misplay. Calling Zoe R Mobility? Its not, its a range extension. Only her W provides mobility. Claiming that you cant see Akali under towers? or that shes Tower immune? Fucking hell man that's just Inaccurate.

The issue as far as I can tell the issue consistantly is that you have to have a good understanding of his champions to properly out play them. Its a cop out in so many cases to claim OMG COMPLEX = OVERLOADED. In almost every ability simplification would make it stronger. If yas could just R any one with out the knock up? even if we reduced it ranges, removed it resetting his shield, got rid of some of the pen or damage, he would still be stronger because a point and click CC is a solid ability on any one. If akali passive did not give Ms, had no ring, had no range extension, all it did was enhance an auto after hitting an ability? That would be stronger. If thresh Q was just a Copy and paste blitz q? That would be stronger.

I'm not trying to say his champions don't have to much in their kits, that's a conversation that can and should happen on a case to case baises, but what I want to say is just that the misconception that something complicated is better is overall an awful viewpoint.Complexity does not always make for overloaded. If complexity is done to provide checks and balances and requires player input and skill expression to hit a best case its usually less powerful then an similar simplification. Reliability is a strength for a champions kit.

I feel the biggest issue is that CT does not make champions excessively friendly to casual players. To outplay Most of CT champions yo have to have a decent understanding of their kit, of their windows, of what is a threat. If you don't understand that minions are key to yas mobility, or that you want to break his shield when he trys to cs with an auto befor blowing a combo on him, or you probably shouldn't Blow your entire load as a mage who he can WW. Your gonna have a fucking bad time. If you force fights in jungles, make him use ability's badly, or can target where he is going to go at the end of his dash with a skill, then he is easyer to deal with.

You cant just know your champion well, you need to understand the opponents options. Do you know hands down what the easiest time to land a skill shot CC on new akali? Its after she recasts E to dash at you, 100% straight line from her location to your face, freaking hard to miss given that her E is broadcasts in 2 casts. On the whole this shouldn't be to difficult of a mechanic to pick up, after playing her a lot how often do I see this? almost never. Overall Its easy to win a lane when its, oh yea I out range them and just need to hit my E before they hit their W. Its harder when its reactionary to the opponent, like say I need to just hit my E after they dash off a minion.

Look, A high skillcap champions best case usage should ALWAYS out scale a low cap champion. Not to say that simple champions shouldn't sometimes be a good hard counter or good matchup but if what your banking on in your pick is reliability well there needs to be a reason to play unreliable champions. In this regard I want to say that I don't actually feel CT makes the highest skill cap champions. Now many of them do have high caps, but a lot of them are pretty straightforward to pick up and play well even before you fully master their kits.( Darius Yasuo Zyra Zoe Warwick ) . The thing is most of them stand out, almost always its a unique kit, it requires players to have an understanding of new mechanics. I don't feel this is bad, but it does require players to adapt and learn. This is not something every player wants to do, infact many refuse to. I don't want to throw shade at OTP players, but there's a world of difference between OTP who learn the game and know matchups and interactions vs the OTP AND THRE REST OF THE GOD DAMM GAME (teammates fucking matter yo) Compared to many who just blindly picks their main every fucking game with no care about synergy or matchups and still expects to be rewarded? Look this last example... that player sucks, screw them.

Whelp that's my rant. If you took the time thanks, if not meh.

HaIlMonitor8/15/2018, 8:09:13 AM4 votes

I think something that would really help make Yasuo more enjoyable to play vs is removing his passive shield. Like yes I understand they may have to lower CD of W or something which sounds scary, but at least if you dodge his Q and he waste his WW he cant eat half your combo from a single shield. I don't mind him having a safer kit as long as there are actual windows to attack him or punish him for wasting spells.

IT3etlWEXJ8/15/2018, 6:29:23 PM4 votes

No shoutout for Darius ? He's one of the few juggernauts who aren't complete cancer when meta, CT did a great job with him.

GodlyBane8/15/2018, 5:11:28 PM1 votes

Yasuo is in a perfectly fine spot, if u nerf him he will literally be the old nunu.. 38% winrate garbage

FlameHalbrdOkido8/18/2018, 5:50:43 PM1 votes

Kalista's E damage isn't front loaded tho at all, she has to AA a bunch before E does any significant amount of damage and theres plenty of time for the opponent to react to the stacking nature of E before it were to become a large chunk of dmg especially since spears beyond the 1st deal reduced dmg with E

5050BS8/15/2018, 6:32:52 PM1 votes

Yasuo Ult has a 30s(18s) CD because he needs a knockup to use it and they are so uncommon....

Almost EVERY champ rework has a knockup on a low CD

TheGreatRasputin8/16/2018, 2:34:08 AM1 votes

I feel like the thing that makes Yasuo really busted is the double crit on his passive.

Fraggleroc8/16/2018, 6:51:11 AM1 votes

CertainlyT alone destroyed the game for me. I've to account for almost all the champs he made when playing Top or Mid. Otherwise it'll just be a painful.. very painful laning phase.

doodlebob6668/15/2018, 9:35:37 AM1 votes

Keep ’s W, but make it so that she doesn’t get summoners or items that she already has access to. For example, she has flash and ignite. This should mean her W cannot give her a cast of the same flash and ignite. (And give it a cooldown of like 65 sec or something). And, keep the drops alternate. For example, if she got a summoner on her first use, then the next drop should give her an item only, and vice versa.

Zoe will still be incredibly annoying even with these changes her E Q combo is old nidalee but with setup CC even if she is weak she can still nearly 1 shot squishies with this combo and she will still be un fun to play against because 1 wrong step means your life lategame, The RNG passive is also sitll going to be frustrating to deal with since she can still randomly get a tp, redemption, protobelt, or some other game changing effect within the first 5 minutes of the game

Change minimum stacks for from 5 to 6, give him less AD but a little more armor and MR(for durability), and make his E single target.(also decrease passive bleed dmg). For ult, remove the extra dmg per passive stack, and add a mana cost at rank 3, but make it an execute.

this just turns darius into a pub stomper because to compensate for the fact your drastically nerfing his accessibility to damage and his total out put your giving him an ult that is far easier to use and has less setup required. So your lowering his skill ceiling and floor while nerfing his value in high elo, and compensating by giving him base stats, odds are he will be unviable near the top of the ladder while being ridiculously oppressive in low elo if these changes are implemented. I also think your drastically underestimating the amount of power your taking out, his lane is going to be weaker, his midgame teamfighting is going to be weaker, his late game is going to be weaker, he needs to build more damage to make up for the the loss in his passive, his utility is going to be lowered and his resets are going to cost most of his mana. This isn't a power shift or even a nerf to balance out an overtuned champ your just gutting him by nerfing every single part of his kit.

is a champion whose counterplay is based on window of opportunity (whirlwind, windwall, flow shield). Thus, change his q in that, the whirlwind deals only 50% of normal q dmg. Moreover, give his W an increased cooldown (like 50s or something, but it refunds 50% of the cooldown if it blocks an ultimate ability). Also remove the AD ratio on E (he gets unlimited mobility from it, why the dmg too). And when he casts his ult, he should be at the same place that his target is at, regardless of whether he is in tower range or not. (remove ability to crit champs too, like srsly he gets 100% with 2 items y is that necessary)

I play top so I have no idea how yasuo interacts with ranged champs since windwall does nothing in top lane matchups but that does seem fair considering how game warping of an ability it can be and the ult change is something that should have happened when he was release, but the nerfs to his e and q drastically hurt his wave clear which can hurt alot since he doesn't itemize tiamat and I don't think he would enjoy having to buy static shiv to compensate.

Kalista has 2 abilities that are healthy her q and her w everything else in her kit is oppressive as hell or cripples riots ability to balance her. Her passive hops invalidate a huge number of melee champs, the othsworn part of kalista's balance and her ult make her op as hell in pro play, and her E gives her unparralled objective control which also makes her invaluable in pro play. Kalista needs a rework her e can be kept if a cap is put on the number of spears she can put in a objective and her other basic abilities are fine but her ult and passive just make her impossible to balance