Support changes that could be very impactfull

Priestelar·11/26/2016, 6:53:47 PM·2 votes·1,117 views
Some thoughts on Support

I am a support main and i have known several issues with support as a role and i would really like to point out some really good yet fair suggestions and i hope this could really help make support more enjoyable for the general player. This is just a response from a player that really plays a lot of support to the post by Riot Meddler. This is the preseason so there is room for change :D I will suggest some gameplay changes that might actually make support better and more enjoyable for the average player. MY MOST IMPORTANT POINT IS RECOGNITION OF SUCCESS AS SUPPORT PLEASE RIOT LOOK AT THAT.

Gold income as support: Currently gold is a problem for supports. I understand all the issues with the gold items from the past, if you buff the gold income in a certain way you will have the same problem we had with heart of gold in the past, where every player in every lane buys it. Currently there are the 3 gold income items:

Spellthief's edge: This item makes the most gold overall and is baught by most of the supports. The problem with this item it is a really good caster item and goes really well with certain champions like Ap Miss Fortune and brand. But i think this item is very flawed. Why? The requirement for getting gold with this item is to play aggressive. I see that as a serious flaw. Because this is the best gold producing item its not fair for some supports to play aggressive. Because this item's requirement is very bad for certain champs. Look at janna. This item is horrible on her, she doesn't have the aggressive potential to make this item worth while. Some might argue that she can use her q or shield herself and auto attack but that leaves her adc vulnerable because her shield is on cooldown and people take advantage on that. Another champion that suffers from this is Sona. She is a champion that has actually a really bad gameplay flaw which i will go into more detail later. Because of the how Sona works. She is one an extremely squishy champion and that is because she has a heal and shield. But this is tied to a really high mana cost and low heal amount. She would have to go in to poke but to get gold and then she gets damaged and focused and loses 1/3 or half her hp or worse, she gets locked down and dies. Then they pull back and try to heal but it doesn't really help much because you need to do it all again or lose out on having any gold. The fact that this item is perfect for mages and promotes mage gameplay is bad for supports. The Frost Queen's Claim active is considered more useful than the others because it can be used to slow, engage or to grant vision midgame. Relic coin: Originally the worst gold item and we all saw some really nice changes to this item during the big support patch. This item is my favourite and it encourages passive/defensive gameplay where you can focus on being a support and heal/shield/buff your adc and use cc when needed. But this item has a big flaw as well. You need to be near minion deaths in order to get gold(The range of the item is great the bad thing is you cant see the range of the item's gold income after you upgrade Nomad's Medallion . But a support is not ALWAYS near minions. Around mid to late game this item makes A LOT less gold that the other two items because of how they make gold. Because Spellthief has you making gold in fights it will always get you more gold than this item. A buff to the gold to minions would be nice but the problem with that would be is that you will earn a decent amount of gold from missing farm and then you have a heart of gold problem again. But something needs to be done it is a great item but lacks that oomph from Frost Queen's Claim. The active of the item is very useful but Frost queen's overshadows Talisman of Ascension because of the Vision aspect. A nice change could be to find a way for it to also grant vision. Why not make it emit a vision around the champion using the item almost like Ashe's Hawk shot, not as big as that but similar. Relic shield: This item is considered best for tanky engage supports because of its health bonus. This item ends up making better gold than relic coin as well because of good recharge time of your charges from Face of the Mountain. The biggest problem with this item is that it's minion execute only works on MELEE attacks. This is a problem for Thresh. Sure his passive from his E makes goes very well with this but. I think A LOT of adc players can agree that they have lost so much farm because of a Thresh player(sometimes even the Thresh main mess this up) over calculating the damage they do and then they mess up the minion and then they and the adc loses the gold. So you have an a support item bought almost by one of the most popular supports that has the potential to make your adc lose farm? That is a serious flaw if the execution worked for ranged champion it would actually even be good for ranged supports. The reason Thresh players buy this over Relic coin is cause of the stats and the fact that it makes more gold than Relic coin.

Recognition of success as support: This is actually a really important gameplay flaw. Supports barely get recognition even if they save a player's life. An element that has been used in games like Heroes of the Storm and Overwatch is the thanking voicelines for healing and shielding. This is very crucial and overlooked by most people it really does matter. It should be incorperated that champions have a voiceline that plays when the support heals/shields/buffs a champion. And I'm not saying just put in a boring Thanks! for every champion. A lot of potential can come with this feature like different and unique interactions depending on the champions and who is doing what. Random examples: Lux shielding Ezreal: Thanks lux! Jhin getting healed: You make me feel so alive! Maokai getting shielded by Ivern: Thank you Greenfather. Draven getting healed: You help make sure Draven always looks good! etc. This is another yet crucial thing. A support has the hardest time getting an S and an S+ is SUPER RARE. For starters there is no damage shielded credit tab at the end of the match. This is so important i can't believe it hasn't been added yet :( I find that a champion's grade is based on: Damage dealt to champions, farming and a good k/d/a. Supports don't get graded enough on their healing and there is no shielding credit. Here is actually a match i played as Karma http://matchhistory.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/EUW1/2949715578/39677366?tab=overview i made more gold than orianna and had a higher Kill participation than Sivir and even did good damage. But i only got a B.... a B!!!!!!!!!!!!! I did amazingly that match and my whole team commended me for it but i was rewarded with it by getting a lousy B?.... that is awful... Another suggestion on how to make support more appealing could be to grant a slight bit more IP or even having a higher chance of getting a keyfragment or chest or maybe even some essence because you played or qued as support, that would be a very rewarding system for people that play supports. Why not maybe even give supports an assist spree? This would change a lot of things ingame but it is only a suggestion and this post is only suggestive. I had another match as Lulu http://matchhistory.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/EUW1/2947862212/39677366 and i only died once and there was nothing to highlight that i had 23 assisst and only 1 death.

Itemization: The fact that the first 800 gold going into a sighstone has several problems. All 3 support items' upgrade versions have a higher gold income than the first form. This means that you are actually decreasing your gold income by rushing sightstone. I find myself starting mostly with Relic shield + Rejuvination bead or Spellthiefs/Relic coin + Faerie charm and then recalling instantly apon getting 375 gold in order to enhance my gold income asap so that i don't loose anything for buying the sightstone. SO why not make your first gold item upgrade automatically over time or why not have the item upgrade when you complete enough of the previous version's gold requirement tasks. Spellthief (still don't like this item but I don't want to be biased) upgrades when you proc its gold income effect 30 times etc. This means that supports don't fall as behind as they do when spending their first 800 gold for a sightstone. It allows supports to not miss out when it comes to gold. Another problem with sighstone as well is i often find myself not wanting to buy it because "Why do i want to buy this and waste an item slot if all it gives is vision? I'm playing Nami, another shielding and healing item will be much better..." Why not introduce new item upgrades for sighstone. Like for example Sighstone + forbidden idol = ??? so then you actually can still get beneficial stats from it that really goes well with your champion! Another example is Sightstone + Aegis of the legion = ??? then you have nice tanky stats from it for the tanky support champions. Another thing is that the item actives should also proc the Thanking voicelines. It makes you feel more appreciated. You can also have some fun interactions here: Jinx getting cleansed by Mikaels: Mikael? Who's that. Ezreal getting shielded by Locket of the iron solari: That's quite a rare relic! (he is an explorer after all!)

Pre-Game: When looking at Masteries, I personally think windspeaker's blessing is amazing but i mean there are some champions that cannot benefit from it at all. Then the go to keystone is Thunderlord's or Bond of stone. But the problem is some supports will take Courage of the colossus and Thunderlord's over the real support option keystones. But these keystones are often overshadowed. Supports could use better support masteries. Exposed weakness is actually a great mastery! but i can never take it because it is in the Ferocity tree and i need the defensive keystones like fearless. Why not make a mastery also granting healing and shielding power. I think bandit could use a buff nothing mayor but it does need a buff it feels like such a fluff mastery but i HAVE to take it because of how it gives you gold for the minion deaths. Why not move exposed weakness to the Resolve tree next to Runic armour. It makes it possible for you to pick up always as support. The problem with healing/shielding runes are this: You loose out on your tanky runepage. Most supports that need this stat are very VERY squishy. So you are punished for wanting to improve your supporting.

Laning patterns: The problem with this depends from champion to champion. Say for example you are playing Janna or Lulu or even Sona. When laning against Taric, Leona, Blitzcrank, Thresh or Braum. You are forced to play more passively. Remember your gameplay effects your gold income with the current items this isn't very intuitive. You bought Spellthief because your champion is balanced around the ap + mana regen it has (Janna shield ad value nerfs) But now your attempt at making gold is threatened by the enemy champ picks... not very good. Support summoner spells: Exhaust: i think this is amazing its such a good debuff. However i find this spell is used to much as an engage. But the great debuff it provides makes it kind of better to be used when the adcs 1v1 or so, not to engage, because then you are only using it for the slow, rather than the attack speed slow and the reduced stats. This spell is really good actually :) Ignite: the fact that i need to include this is horrible. This spell is rarely used even in midlane now a days and mostly used in botlane. But are supports really supposed to be doing damage? Its used in botlane mostly to secure kills or to reduce adc's Summoner Heal's effectiveness. I want to suggest making a new summoner spell. Why not a spell that stuns? But wait a minute.... now we have a stun available to everyone. Now we will see assassins and jungler almost always take this. So why not make it have a significant drawback effect like: Stuns a champion for x seconds, however all damage you deal is reduced by x% for x seconds(id actually say 50% reduction for 10 seconds because supports aren't really supposed to do damage. That way it can be discouraged from being picked by other non support champions.

And finally i want to give my opinions on the support champions (Note: i will not include champions like Brand, Zyra, Velkoz not to be biased but these are literally only midlaners going botlane in the support role because they are the best at setting up kills, because of that these champs are mostly favoured to be played) that need changes because of their issues Riot made changes to a few and that has felt very good and has made them a lot better.

Sona: Sona is my favourite support and i remember she was the first champion i ever bought. But she has always had several gameplay flaws and the reword she got didn't really fix that. If i have to be honest i always thought the old sona was better because of the auras. The aura gameplay was really intuitive and lead to Sona having some interesting decision making depending on the situation. Sona does INSANE AMOUNTS of burst damage making people question HOW IS THIS A SUPPORT SHE JUST HALF HIT ME ON LVL 4. Sona has a mojor gameplay flaw. She is extremely squishy but she has to play aggressive in order to seem useful and to get gold. Her heal is pretty useless until you get Athene's, i really don't like how her heal is entirely balanced around her buying Athene's. What if a Sona doesn't buy Athene's? Her healing is useless! And I find myself having to rush this item and gold income is hard enough and then you have the mandatory sighstone rush also making this a major problem. Sona being forced to go in to get gold and then get harrased making you lose more hp than you can sustain and getting focused because you are so extremely squishy but her ult makes her a frontline engage champion and being as vulnerable as she is doesn't make it fun to play her. Athene's is very good on sona because she stacks it up so well and i don't think any other support has the potential of making it as useful as Sona. The old aura system was very fun to play with and it looked amazing as well ingame. So what do i think should change on her? Give her back her auras :( reduce sona's damage buff she gets from her q, she does to much damage, I think it makes more sense that she is buffing her adc with nice poke damage than it all coming from her. Why not give her a built in Athene's damage to healing buff so that it gives a better reward for successfully q'ing. Her healing is really EH untill you get Athene's why not nerf Athene's and give sona a mini built in one. The most recent Sona changes were very nice. It gave her almost this urf mode gameplay xD but she still doesnt feel good because of that. Another thing is that the current aura mechanic is really bad because it requires you to run to allies and for allies to walk to you for it to be effective and it is generally not very effective. The old Aura system was more intuitive. Buffing allies. I think she should do less damage and the damage she buffs her allies should rather be what its about.

Soraka: She is a healbot..... literally nothing else she cant even properly heal herself which is not very fun, you are actually killing yourself to heal people what which is like WHAT... Do you know who likes to be a healbot, barely doing anything else but healing is very boring even to me and i really like passive defensive support playstyle. The old soraka was a lot better and i think hands down a lot more fun to play. However the old soraka had a major problem and that is: She can solo lane and do insane damage as well as heal. Well i think the old soraka brought alot more to the table than the current one. But as for changes to the old one i would suggest a nerf to her damage portion she did with silencing enemies with her e as to discourage her solo lane potential ( Riot managed to do it perfectly with Lulu so why not with Soraka as well?) but more specifically nerf her AP scalings from it so that it isnt viable in solo lanes and most importantly. Her q, this was what made her such a problem. The magic resist reduction needs to be removed. I would suggest low q base and ap scaling and then give it a larger range with no stacking debuff. It makes it more balanced and reasonable. This version was so much more fun and just felt alot more intuitive to play in support.

Janna: Janna has always had too good ap scaling and her shield is to dependant on ap. I would find myself with 40-50% bonus shielding and healing power and still my shield would be more effective if i had gona full ap. Why not nerf her Ap scaling of her shield and increase its later version base values. She is in a very good support but she has a bad peel and the effectiveness of that peel is tied to her Ap. Why not buff her W to have nicer damage values but low AP scaling. I mean at the moment throwing a W at an enemy champ does like < 60 damage wich is a joke... Makes the champion feel ONLY passive and defensive.

Leona: Her new ult passive buff is so short it feels almost non existent... :(

Bard: I am not a fan of Bard personally but I he lacks the healing aspect and his damage is insane o_o His healing is a joke if you ask me, although the Shrine thing is a unique idea. I think he could also use a built in athenes effect, that way his instant heal feels alot more usefull than the current way it does. And if he has charges of how it currently works he might be able to contribute more in other situations.

Karma: She is actually fine but GIVE HER BACK HER FANS XDDDDDDD COME ON! https://www.change.org/p/riot-games-give-karma-her-flappers-back WE WANT IT BACK X)

Thank you for reading :) I hope these suggestions could be considered and maybe even brought to life. Regards Priestelar

7 Comments

OurLestrade11/26/2016, 8:35:39 PM2 votes

"Back in my day we had Philosopher's Stone and Gold Gen runes, and we liked it!" I don't get why people always go on about how hard it is to get S on support. I tend to get it quite reliably. Maybe I'm just that good? :P

Sonasaurous11/26/2016, 11:24:42 PM2 votes

Ok...this is a wall...and you lost me at a few key parts...forgive me if I cut too much out in quotes.

I am a support main

Cool, so am I. Hi, how you doing?

Gold income as support: Currently gold is a problem for supports. I understand all the issues with the gold items from the past, if you buff the gold income in a certain way you will have the same problem we had with heart of gold in the past, where every player in every lane buys it. Currently there are the 3 gold income items:

That's fair.

Spellthief's edge: This item makes the most gold overall and is baught by most of the supports. The problem with this item it is a really good caster item and goes really well with certain champions like Ap Miss Fortune and brand. But i think this item is very flawed. Why? The requirement for getting gold with this item is to play aggressive.

Key points: Spell thief's edge:

  1. Good for AP casters....like AP MissFortune (this is still a thing?) and Brand (Be careful, your bias against mage supports is showing)
  2. Bad on Janna and Sona lol what

Wait wait, how is item 3303 bad on Sona ?? Lemme scroll down to your Sona rant...

Sona: Sona is my favourite support and i remember she was the first champion i ever bought. But she has always had several gameplay flaws and the reword she got didn't really fix that. If i have to be honest i always thought the old sona was better because of the auras.

Okay so...key points you make:

  1. Old Sona was better (as a Sona main, I agree because I am biased)
  2. Sona does a lot of burst damage
  3. Sona is squishy af
  4. Sona's heal is only good after buying item 3174 (I disagree, I rarely buy Athene's on Sona and I have no problems with my heal once it's leveled up)
  5. Sona is a support, and therefore has to buy a item 2049 (#supportlife)
  6. Because Sona is super squishy, it is disadvantageous to her to put herself slightly more into Q range to poke to proc the gold passive from Spell thief's edge
  7. Old Sona was so superior that Sona should be reverted back to old Sona
  8. On top of that, Sona should have an Athene's built into her W (and the item Athene's should be nerfed to compensate)
  9. The current auras are bad because you need to have your allies within your aura range for the aura to take effect (which, tbh, is not a new thing. That's kind of how auras work. The only different thing with Sona is that you can physically see the range of the aura)

So basically what I'm getting is that you're lowkey a #SaveSona2015 Sona player.

As a Sona Main, who starts with Spell Thief's Edge 10/10 games, I have to say that Spell Thief is very good on Sona. Honestly, if it is so hard for you to poke with Q from a distance without immediately getting caught out, then you should 1. Probs ward the side bushes, and 2. Probs stop playing Sona.

Moving on.

Relic coin: Originally the worst gold item and we all saw some really nice changes to this item during the big support patch. This item is my favourite and it encourages passive/defensive gameplay where you can focus on being a support and heal/shield/buff your adc and use cc when needed. But this item has a big flaw as well.

item 3301 *ANCIENT COIN Key Points:

  1. The best item for supports because it promotes utility support gameplay with no aggressiveness (because as we've established from your rant on spell thief, supports probably shouldn't be aggressive)
  2. FLAW: You have to be NEAR the MINIONS to get the gold (omg, it's almost like you have to be with your adc as they farm. THE HORROR.)
  3. Maybe it can grant vision, like Ashe's Hawk Shot

TBH, I usually start ANCIENT COIN on Janna or Soraka when I know I'm not going to be playing aggressive, and then I sell it for item 3092 later. Because, like you said, it is the better gold option for utility supports, but the active is meh.

Relic shield: This item is considered best for tanky engage supports because of its health bonus. This item ends up making better gold than relic coin as well because of good recharge time of your charges from Face of the Mountain. The biggest problem with this item is that it's minion execute only works on MELEE attacks. This is a problem for Thresh.

item 3302 AKA, the tanky support item.

... Okay, I can summarize your point in one sentence: "This is a good item, except if you play Thresh because Thresh will mess up his adc's farm."

Lol what.

Yes. ONLY Thresh will ever mess up your adc's farm, ESPECIALLY if he has Relic Shield. That's how that works. It's not like Morgana with item 3303 can accidentally steal farm or mess up the adc's farm whenever she uses her W, or Janna with item 3301 can accidentally kill a minion with her Q. It's just 100% Thresh fault with item 3302.

#logic

This is another yet crucial thing. A support has the hardest time getting an S and an S+ is SUPER RARE.

Lol, or maybe you're just bad? I get S's pretty frequently when I support. (even as Sona, which I have lvl 7 mastery with, and Janna, which I just got lvl 6 mastery with. Need S's to get those. Just saying.)

Itemization: The fact that the first 800 gold going into a sighstone has several problems. All 3 support items' upgrade versions have a higher gold income than the first form. This means that you are actually decreasing your gold income by rushing sightstone.

Actually.

item 2301 and item 3098 both grant 2 gold per 10 seconds AND 15 gold on hit. (compared to item 3092, which gives the same amount of gold) (and item 3303 still has the 2 gold per 10 seconds...the only difference is you get 8 gold on hit--but you don't seem to like this item anyway, so?) item 2302 and item 3096 both grant 6 gold when a minion dies (compared to item 3069 which gives..wait for it...6 gold when a minion dies) (and item 3301 gives 4 gold...a whole 2 gold difference for when your adc can last hit) item 2303 and item 3097 both grant 2 gold per 10 seconds and shares gold when executing minions (and need I say item 3401 gives the same amount of gold?) (and item 3302 has the exact same amount of gold given. So.)

So are you really losing gold in the long run by rushing item 2049 first before the level 2 gold upgrade? Because, honestly, if you're building for a sightstone upgrade instead of a gold trinket upgrade, then it's better to rush sightstone because vision saves lives, and saving lives means you didn't give the enemy team gold. But if you really have your panties in a twist, you can do what most supports do and buy the upgraded trinket first before sightstone because unless you get that double kill assist bot lane and/or your adc is one hella good farmer, you're not gonna have enough to buy the sightstone on your first back (or, if all the conditions are met, then you can get your sightstone AND trinket upgrade on your first back. Who'd've thunk it?)

And finally i want to give my opinions on the support champions (Note: i will not include champions like Brand, Zyra, Velkoz not to be biased but these are literally only midlaners going botlane in the support role because they are the best at setting up kills, because of that these champs are mostly favoured to be played)

That is literally the definition of being biased.

Soraka: She is a healbot..... literally nothing else she cant even properly heal herself which is not very fun, you are actually killing yourself to heal people what which is like WHAT... Do you know who likes to be a healbot, barely doing anything else but healing is very boring even to me and i really like passive defensive support playstyle.

So just because you don't like Soraka means something is wrong with her? A Plat player once told my Bronze ass that once you learned how to play league, you could literally do anything with any champion and win. He then proceeded to main Soraka jungle. In season 6. True story. Let that sink in for a bit.

Janna: Janna has always had too good ap scaling and her shield is to dependant on ap. I would find myself with 40-50% bonus shielding and healing power and still my shield would be more effective if i had gona full ap. Why not nerf her Ap scaling of her shield and increase its later version base values. She is in a very good support but she has a bad peel and the effectiveness of that peel is tied to her Ap. Why not buff her W to have nicer damage values but low AP scaling. I mean at the moment throwing a W at an enemy champ does like < 60 damage wich is a joke... Makes the champion feel ONLY passive and defensive.

Likes playing passive/defensive supports. Thinks Janna is bad at peeling. Thinks. Janna Is bad. At peeling.

brb I'm dying a little inside.

Bonus: "Why not buff her W to have nicer damage values but low AP scaling. I mean at the moment throwing a W at an enemy champ does like < 60 damage wich is a joke... Makes the champion feel ONLY passive and defensive."

Likes playing passive/defensive. Complains about a utility support champion having a passive/defensive playstyle. Makes sense.

Yeah no...I'm done.

Final Spark Lux11/26/2016, 6:58:35 PM1 votes

{quoted}

Lux shielding Ezreal: Thanks lux!

Np

500000000000000011/26/2016, 7:19:55 PM1 votes

Wow, that's quite a wall. I'll try to respond to all points made.

Gold income items. I think it is fair that a passive item gives you less gold than other gold income items that requires you to be more aggressive. It's also true that mage supports need more gold to be relevant compared to enchanters, who can buy cheap items and still be very effective. Ancient Coin should give the least potentital amount of gold. As for Relic Shield, it should only work on melees because ranged supports can abuse the sustain easily. Imagine a Bard support poking and sustaining from safe distance. On Thresh, they can go for either the Ancient Coin or the Relic Shield. Each has its benefit and cost. I think keeping the relic execute melee only is fine.

Sightstone rush has been brought up before. I'm not really sure how to solve this, though. Slot efficiency can be solved by allowing supports to upgrade their trinket into a sightstone (thus solving the slot efficiency issue), but it would also allow anyone to get easy access to sightstone. A vision rework would be needed to solve this, and not just some minor tweaks to sightstone, in my opinion.

For masteries, I think supports just need another tree altogether. This tree would focus on vision game, buffing allies, etc.

As for laning pattern, I think counterplays are fine. If you're Janna playing against Blitzcrank, maybe you should just go for the Coin instead of Spellthief's.