Why is Azir with a 45% average competitive AND soloq winrate across all regions getting nerfed?

Akumu·7/9/2015, 4:39:14 AM·36 votes·3,185 views

Please explain Riot.

Id love to know the though process behind your balance teams decisions. Because it seems like you are using high pick rate in competitive alone as grounds for a nerf even if the champion is perfectly balanced.

44 Comments

ChargeItDownMid7/9/2015, 5:08:11 AM13 votes

[deleted]

atomicwit7/9/2015, 5:52:44 AM8 votes

If they really nerf him, I've lost all confidence in their balance team.

BTW: Winrates DO correlate to a champion's power when looking at high ELO. This is indisputable and has always been true. They aren't the full picture and there can definitely be outliers due to low pick-rate (ex: Heimerdinger), very high skill-cap etc. but in general, it's quite reflective. In fact, even Riot's nerfs tend to attack the higher winrate champions so to say otherwise makes no sense.

Pick/ban rates are often FAR more inaccurate than winrate when looking at strength. Banning stuff like Ekko or LB makes very little sense these days. Their performance is abysmal except in niche scenarios (like Ekko JG which is pretty average). The same goes for the recent Runeglaive Ezreal which is banned a lot but again performs poorly in every ELO (47% even in Diamond) and has more of a frustration factor than objective strength imo. The lack of CC, slow ramp-up time, almost his entire kit negated if body-blocked by tanks/minions, low pushing power etc.

Bans are more emotional and about preference than what actually makes sense. WW even remained a common ban long after the nerfs to him and Devourer. High pick-rates also don't mean a champion is particularly strong and may be just due to entertainment/play-making like for Lee Sin.

Earl Eulrich7/9/2015, 12:00:34 PM4 votes

might have sth to do with his 60%winrate on people that have more than 100games on him... (or pawn just getting a tripplekill 1v3 without even being fed last week).

though the changes really go in the wrong direction...

Saianna7/9/2015, 11:58:45 AM4 votes

Fist thing I have to say:

Playing against GOOD Azir is extremely painful, to the point of rage quitting. He has many tools and ways to use his power to make himself Baron 2.0 mowing trought enemies like they are weed.

Second thing: This change will make even the BEST Azirs in the world totally stomped even by minion wave.

This small rework will gut him hard. It won't make it fair to play him or against him. I'm against it.

SaltyKracka7/9/2015, 6:28:15 AM4 votes

Because players with 50+ games on Azir have an ever-increasing average winrate (and yes, it's over 51%).

IOW, his potential power is far far too tied to his skill ceiling, and as such they're bringing them both down.

ShuffledPancake7/9/2015, 4:53:28 AM3 votes

Azir isn't perfectly balanced if you want a real figure of balance then look at release look at Vel'Koz, Azir is a commander of shurima (or whatever they intended) but he can launch soldiers that make him fly?????????? why give a champ that shouldn't have mobility, MOBILITY. -Downvoting without a good reason is crime

Sire Hippington7/9/2015, 1:43:20 PM2 votes

Azirs winrate for all regions in proplay is 50.5%, with a 73% pick/ban, source: http://oracleselixir.com/statistics/champions/2015-summer-champion-statistics/

his win rate for experienced players in SoloQ is also alot higher, only 41 % on players with 1-5games, but 52% on players with 50-125 games, and 55% on players with 125+ games, source: http://champion.gg/champion/Azir. His low winrate comes form his high skill cap, but once mastered he is a monster(55% winrate) compared to runeglaive EZ: 45.5%winrate, 3%pick/ban in pro play, soloQ winrate with 1-5 games played: 46.5%, with 125+ games: 50%

Chamber7/9/2015, 1:53:26 PM2 votes

Wow....thanks for gutting my favorite champion Riot. RIP Azir

CISTERN7/9/2015, 5:15:41 PM2 votes

AGREE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Because it seems like you are using high pick rate in competitive alone as grounds for a nerf even if the champion is perfectly balanced.

52847732_DEL7/9/2015, 8:20:21 PM1 votes

I think Riot is trying to change Azir's playstyle.

What Azir does ATM is initiate through E knockup/shield and Ult the enemy. It's not a healthy playstyle because he already does the Tank's initiating job and change teamfights to his advantage. I assume Riot wants Azir to use his E solely for escapes/positioning and not Azir to be the first initiator in teamfights without letting tanks handle that role. I'm not sure if they'll compensate him for something else, but this is just my thought.

Migrañaboy7/9/2015, 9:57:34 PM1 votes

At last, Riot is balancing for Pro scene and not for casual, just like Dota2's Icefrog.

Goood, goooood.

JimmyNtheKudos7/9/2015, 11:06:29 PM1 votes

I think it's because he can do a little to much right now... I don't get why they're nerfing is E though, his passive change is pretty big by itself.

isKOPPEN7/9/2015, 11:14:41 PM1 votes

Azir has wayy to much in his kit, Although I love azir and I never have issues vsing him, It really just is too much(HUGE MOBILITY, KNOCKUP, SHIELD, 1 ability). Also im pretty sure they dont use lcs to see if they should nerf or buff a champ. Lucian is fairly popular with a 0% win rate. I don't see anything done for him???????????

Mandang07/9/2015, 11:15:36 PM1 votes

item 3116

Lucky7/10/2015, 12:13:29 AM1 votes

This is why i hate g&b

Lugg7/10/2015, 12:31:46 AM1 votes

The reason is that once you master Azir, the counterplay is very low. That is why Zed and LB were nerfed even though they had low win rates.

Xela Syab7/9/2015, 5:24:06 AM1 votes

idk, I really never cared for azir or his playstyle. it seemed like they wanted to make a mage forcibly buy cdr and as to be effective. He is a nightmare for competitive players because of the playmaking ability. No other mage in the game has that much disengage and poke loaded into their kit with mobility. It's like giving Trundle Riven's kit on top of his own, hell they did that crap with gnar and after months of nerfs he's finally balanced.

Chaotic Reks7/9/2015, 5:27:53 AM1 votes

because lcs. he was amazing in like 9 games and is now getting the bat.

Abyssphere7/9/2015, 5:40:13 AM1 votes

I feel like the changes are not necessarily meant to be a nerf (they look like one on the PBE now, but they've said they'll be trying out a bunch of different changes) and are more a soft rework of sorts. Attaching his AS boost to his W is clearly an attempt to make it so that Azir has to choose between high burst and high DPS going into the mid game, for example. A lot of people complain about his lack of identity because he's very bursty and also has high DPS, so that makes perfect sense. The change to his E though, I can't really see the reasoning behind. Perhaps they thought it was overkill for a basic ability to have mobility, CC, damage and a shield attached?

Lafouboy7/9/2015, 6:10:31 AM1 votes

There's no use fighting it.

Remember Veigar.

Poptart Evelynn7/9/2015, 6:38:23 AM1 votes

Please for the love of god stop using win rates as a balancing tool. So many more variables at hand that can shift win rates. Low skill floor/high skill floor, low skill cap/high skill cap, etc...

Leetri7/9/2015, 9:00:58 AM1 votes

Winrates have little to do with how balanced something is. If that was the case, Heimerdinger would be the most OP champion in the game with his 54.5% winrate. And Brand, Taric, Lux, Warwick, Zyra, Fiora, Blitzcrank, Amumu, Galio, Skarner, Shen and Soraka must be OP as well because they have above average winrate. Meanwhile LeBlanc and Ekko must be buffed by a ton because they have below 45% winrate and so must Zed and Kalista because they only have 47%. Notice how the champions that people call bad or even trash have above average winrate while the ones everyone complain about being stupid OP have way below average?

Emperor Time7/9/2015, 1:23:41 PM1 votes

Only reason Azir is getting changes is because he's op in competitive play. He's not that great in solo Q.

HateDaddy7/9/2015, 2:23:22 PM1 votes

The changes are too far, I like some of them. But they're going too far.