Not the Turret changes we needed.

Raije·11/21/2017, 5:03:04 PM·57 votes·1,734 views

I don't see how adding 300 health fixes the turret in any way. What we needed was so that champs who build armor don't become immune to towers. We don't need Alistar tanking 8 turret shots in a row at level 6. We need harder ramping damage on turrets so that at the very least players have to toggle the agro among themselves and not just have a tank go in and ignore the turrets. I'm not sure how this change addresses our concerns about turrets ineffectiveness.

You could make the turrets do mix damage so champs that have pure armor can't tank them forever or just increase their damage growth per hit.

30 Comments

Laughing Fish11/21/2017, 5:11:41 PM23 votes

I like the direction the changes are going, but I think they didn't add enough health. Personally I have no problem with a large minion wave breaking my tower if I leave lane for too long. Having to pay attention to large minion waves should always be a concern in the game, and making towers more effective against them could nullify the concern.

However, while you should always have to pay attention to towers, the annoying part at least for me is when you recall or get killed literally once and the laner and jungler take your tower down from full health in single wave. This is the part that can make laning against certain champs such as Trynd or Jax feel so oppressive. The knowledge that even if you are laning very well and ahead in CS, a single fuck-up and you immediately lose lane.

Making towers overall stronger but countering that strength by increased weakness to minions is a nice idea, the problem is that 300 health is not enough to actually solve the problem. It is just 1-2 AA's for a strong split pusher, and won't even equate to a full second increased survival time if there is a top-laner and jungler both pushing. What I would like to see is an increase to the tower's armor/MR, especially top lane.

FireDrizzle11/21/2017, 5:27:15 PM8 votes

Turrets do too low damage in general, and you wont stop Ali tanking turrets by changing them to magic damage, his ult gives % damage reduction.

Stay Close Dear11/21/2017, 5:26:14 PM4 votes

I agree, increase the turret %armor pen

VelvetCrotch11/22/2017, 6:37:24 AM2 votes

That's a correct problem. The other one is, that turrets still melt to quick. Imho it's a cool Feature for champs like Tris and especially Ziggs. But it shouldn't be a common thing at all.

DepressedAhri11/22/2017, 4:59:43 AM2 votes

"Not the change we needed"

?????????

Literally every boards post before preseason was about how towers need more hp.

RO538UD11/22/2017, 4:15:21 AM1 votes

I would've been happy with JUST the ramping up damage. If they want the game to be so bursty and snowbally then make the turrets glass cannons too.

Vectros11/22/2017, 4:22:50 AM1 votes

While I agree turrets should do more damage and that is a common complaint, flimsy towers HAS been a major complaint, which this is attempting to address...but doesn't do enough.

SpecterVonBaren11/22/2017, 4:35:26 AM1 votes

I'm fine with tanks tanking turret shots, they built themselves for it and by the time they've built enough armor to tank like that they're also getting melted by carries with armor pen. What I hate is all the freaking mobility in the game that lets champs just take like one hit, kill you, and then dash out.

GettemClone11/22/2017, 6:24:07 AM1 votes

but the turret changes we deserve - random ass guy

TwitchInMyPants11/22/2017, 6:34:01 AM1 votes

Building armor should make towers weaker. Towers are intended to get weaker as the game progresses. If they were forever a protective force games go full turtle and it becomes a poke war where you hug tower. Towers have to die at some point, I don't think just ramping up the damage is an actual solution to game pacing. Maybe the damage isn't where it needs to be but everyone keeps suggesting they do % damage or true damage and shit but durability shoud be useful against them for dives to be possible, even if they're a little easy right now if dives are impossible the more towers are up the more space you can't play in and thus the less fighting is enabled. There's a reason we have things set up as is.

IMO with all the changes to make on-hits hurt more tower durability is important. 300 hp is short of what I was expecting but I think a bit more and it should be in a good spot. The minion buff at the same time was pretty dumb since it effectively isn't even a buff early game at that point, but it means if towers get more armor/hp they should be durable enough to get multiple shots off for that ramping damage.

Raije11/22/2017, 2:02:03 PM1 votes

I'd be fine with the first 5 tower shots being at the same strength if 6+ did way more damage. I just don't think people tanking more than 6 shots is healthy.

notice me Sin pi11/22/2017, 2:10:02 PM1 votes

im fine with Alistar tanking 8 turret shots cuz that's what his ult is designed for. im not fine with bunch of squishies turret diving 3vs2 and coming out unscathed after double kill tho. % armor pen would be nice tho.

Praetor Notorias11/22/2017, 5:06:11 PM1 votes

I built randuins on Anivia last night (try it, it's fun) and was chasing someone through the blue side raptor bush and forgot mid hadn't cleared the towers so I took like 8 or 9 turret shots from two turrets (cause Anivia is slow as fuck) while being hit by who ever I was chasing and a few of his friends and then I was like oh shit oh shit oh shit but I didn't die. I just kept on keeping on and I threw up walls and Q's and laughed my ass back to base (cause no way was I backing where there weren't any wards).

But honestly I think what would fix the system, or at least bring it back to season 2-4 norms, would be to have the first shot do flat physical damage like it does, the 2nd shot to do flat physical damage + magic damage. And then the 3rd shot to do %hp in physical and magic damage all while ramping up with the 5th shot just simply being an execute. If you take 5 shots you die.

That way an Ohmwrecker actually gets useful and rotating turret aggro becomes a thing again. Tower dives can still happen, but they have to be done properly instead of any kid with a snickers bar being able to pull it off.

EDIT: I didn't have any armor items built at the time. Just resolve tree conditioning and how ever much HP I got from Overgrowth. And it was 4 turret shots and a GP barrel (might as well have been 5)

Raije11/21/2017, 5:18:40 PM1 votes

I'm fine with the changes they did. It's just not what, I think, the player base is asking for. I think most of us want the towers to feel safer when we are guarding them. So often if the other team has a high armor tank they can too easily tank the tower for an entire 5v5 team fight.

Selegun11/21/2017, 5:36:44 PM1 votes

Or you could just buy Black Cleaver and hug the turret all game. That doesn't require a patch and still boosts turret damage.

AR URF11/21/2017, 6:01:12 PM1 votes

or you could just do 20% max hp damage vs a number. The problem with towers is not minion damage to towers, but sitting under towers at 200/800 hp at level 2 and having two level 2 enemies come in for a gank on you, killing you, and flashing out if necessary.

Modl Ryden l11/21/2017, 6:27:21 PM1 votes

I think tower first blood bonus gold is the biggest issue when it comes to lane shoving. In the early stages of the game, everyone is so fixated on getting that extra 150 bonus global gold that early game tower pushing is a MUST.

Had there not been an incentive to take towers so quickly, and rather put heavier focus on other objectives, such as Drake or Herald, then towers would be much of an issue. However, Earth Drake and Herald, both attribute to fast tower clearing as well.