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Ivern Conundrum

AtlasWasMugged·10/7/2016, 10:23:39 AM·1 votes·736 views

So i guess I'll just start by saying that Ivern is fun to play at times but feels a bit off. He is a jungler with decent but not amazing clear and seems designed to be a counter jungler... sadly the only benefit he has is that he can freely take the enemies second buff if no one on the enemy team tries to stop him, but that just leaves him open to be counter jungled by the enemy jungler after there initial buff. He feels like he should be built like a support tank, but lacks any real substance as a tank in teamfights if you don't use bush mechanics properly to cancel autos. If you look at his scaling he scales well but that would mean you should build him for dmg which is unreliable since his dmg is reliant on hitting a q which is slow and easy to dodge, as well as the fact that the rest of the kits dmg is also unreliable. Which means you go the middle ground which makes him not the best at either but the best overall for what he can be at the moment. This build wouldn't be a problem if it didn't feel like it wasn't a worthwhile pick. Zac, Sejuani, and even moakai do his job better build this way and are all decently fun to play maybe excluding moakai.

I feel like he could be fixed if you made a few changes to make him have a bit more of an identity with his build. I love having multiple build options. In season for AD jg Malz was my main jungler. But with ivern he doesn't even have a main build every one of the builds is equally unsatisfying for varying reasons.

Some Ideas:

HIs passive could bring back the old smite cooldown reduction from smiting a camp in your jungle to make his clear slightly better.

The q is honestly pretty good since it has a lot of innate power from the gap close for your team.

the w is fine as well even if it is odd as hell. (a good kind of odd though)

the e needs a higher base value if he is meant to be a tank, or more reliable dmg if he should be a mage.

the ult needs better attack speed and slightly lower dmg if he is meant to be a mage imo or if he is meant to be a tank maybe make the defenses scale with your defenses

2 Comments

AngelFrost0010/7/2016, 11:11:12 AM2 votes

not amazing clear

He get free buffs ???? . Smite 1 shot buff .

designed to be a counter jungler...

Tell your teamates to ward in bushes then to stop him from stealing buffs or make a trap where you get easy first blood, he cant escape if no minions nearby so he can Q Out.

He feels like he should be built like a support tank, but lacks any real substance as a tank in teamfights if you don't use bush mechanics properly to cancel autos.

He is support, and he built tank because he is not assassin or powerful mage. He can use bush mechanics to prevent them from seeing anyone unless they ward, so it hard to steal dragon or baron or any buffs at start of teamfights, unless you are in midlane you use bushes to keep your allies alive, the goal of teamfights with ivern is to keep allies alive with W And E , destroy enemy backline or snare/stun enemy frontline with Q and use daisy . He is not easy to play so you don't just get so skillful at him and be best invern so don't expect anything good when he is realised people still learning.

f you look at his scaling he scales well but that would mean you should build him for dmg which is unreliable since his dmg is reliant on hitting a q which is slow and easy to dodge, as well as the fact that the rest of the kits dmg is also unreliable.

He build some damage and tank. Agree he doesn't rely on damage in teamfights he just E ADC From enemy engages and predict enemy movement and land Q .

which means you go the middle ground which makes him not the best at either but the best overall for what he can be at the moment. This build wouldn't be a problem if it didn't feel like it wasn't a worthwhile pick. Zac, Sejuani, and even moakai do his job better build this way and are all decently fun to play maybe excluding moakai.

Riot made support jungler not tank ap jungler who can 1 shot enemy adc and have 4 ap abilities that does damage.

I feel like he could be fixed if you made a few changes to make him have a bit more of an identity with his build. I love having multiple build options. In season for AD jg Malz was my main jungler. But with ivern he doesn't even have a main build every one of the builds is equally unsatisfying for varying reasons.

He has multiple build options, people just learning to figure what good on ivern. "In season for jg Malz was my main jungler" ??? Many people hated new malzhar, he was good just before rework and then Riot made him into a lategame monster/ ad jungler. His early is kinda weak but in lategame he is strong. AD Malzhar doesn't have multiple builds tho.

HIs passive could bring back the old smite cooldown reduction from smiting a camp in your jungle to make his clear slightly better.

No that will make him strong early, you dont want level 4 ivern in your lane while you are level 2.

The q is honestly pretty good since it has a lot of innate power from the gap close for your team.

FIST ME

the w is fine as well even if it is odd as hell. (a good kind of odd though)

Bushes Spooky! Wasting Wards on ability.

the e needs a higher base value if he is meant to be a tank, or more reliable dmg if he should be a mage.

I Think his E Needs better AP Ratio should increase a bit so it Ivern doesnt become next ekko.

the ult needs better attack speed and slightly lower dmg if he is meant to be a mage imo or if he is meant to be a tank maybe make the defenses scale with your defenses

The ultimate need small buffs though, I don't thnk it does so much damage. Attack speed will make him next Malzhar Kappa . It just need to feel strong in some teamfights because I Feel like blue buff can 1v1 daisy .

Oh god i need to see Vandril if he made Blue Buff vs Daisy LMAO.

Elite4Runner10/7/2016, 10:56:59 AM1 votes

For the most part, I agree with you. He definitely feels odd, but I still think that is because he is so new and nobody has really nailed down how he is best used.

My theory on his counter jungle ability is that he is really kind of meant to be a more passive jungler. He is certainly capable of ganking, but I agree that his kit doesn't really make him a ganking monster. As for his Q being easy to dodge, as with most long range abilities, it is probably intended for you to throw his Q from fog of war and/or through terrain so that it is much more difficult to react to. I think this strategy has good synergy with his bushes since you are able to further choke off your enemies' vision. Otherwise, Daisy is really his main ganking/diving tool, which means you will generally not gank as often as more aggressive junglers. I believe his E is really meant more for counter ganking when it comes to lane support. Again, referring to his "passive" jungler playstyle, his contrast from frequently ganking junglers is actually a benefit. If he knows that the enemy jungler is most likely preparing to gank a lane, he can feel safer about counter jungling and taking a few camps to punish them for it.

Otherwise, he provides his team with good utility right away simply by not requiring a leash. This means his team is able to go straight to lane, take a separate camp, or set up for an invade. He is also able to join them on the invade and they can quickly take a camp while he takes another at the same time. And of course there is the fact that he is able to share Red and Blue after level 5. To the same point, the fact that that he can clear the camp and the "seed" will remain for up to 1 minute means he can already be in route to somewhere else and the ally who is going to take the seed does not need to feel rushed to leave lane to pick it up. Also, the fact that his allies can clear Red or Blue without him even being there means he can set up a gank bot lane while top and mid clear the camp, then he can wander back up to pick up the buff for himself.

And these are just the strategies that I am able to come up with. I'm sure there will be several others that will pop up. I think he will be a very interesting addition.