Solving the Karma Subclass Chaos

SilverSquid·12/6/2019, 2:58:54 AM·34 votes·15,341 views

No TL;DR this time. If you lack time, just skip my essay and tell me what subclasses Karma should have in your opinion

I believe Karma has an identity crisis. With a fanbase that's seperated into at least 3 parts, Karma being played in at least 3 different positions, with no decisively "unique" spells or visuals to her kit, and I think the one thing that shows her crisis best, is her lack of a true subclass everyone (including Riot) can agree on.

Sure, there are champions like Singed and Teemo, who don't fall neatly into any one category either, and that's fine, since they are unique enough to have their own specialized playstyle. Karma... doesn't. Having hybrids between classes is fine too, as it tends to open up interesting combinations. But that really only works with 2, maybe 3 subclasses. If you add more than that, a champion's kit becomes confusing and contradictory.

Which I believe happened with Karma. Let me show you:

How much Enchanting Does She Do?

In Riot's first iteration of subclasses, back in 2016, they listed Karma as an Enchanter (hybrid Battlemage). This might seem obvious at first, as she is usually mentioned alongside champions like Janna, Lulu and Nami, but the more you think about it; Karma has only a single spell, that actually interacts with her allies: E. Her passive and her mantra have no own identity, so it's essentially 1/3rd of her kit. It's questionable whether that's enough. If her W could target her allies with some simple functionality like resistances or heals, this would obviously be closer, but as it stands, Karma actually enchants her allies only slightly more than a Sivir or Nunu does.

Burstmage or Artillery?

Karma's first iteration was clearly a Battlemage with short cooldowns, short ranges, barely any CC or mobility. Great damage and sustain. She won fights by hitting enemies with many spells in a row. But now, after her relaunch in 3.5? Her damage pattern is W -> RQ, which puts her into the Burstmage category. That's why the wiki lists her alongside Neeko, Annie and Zoe. But weirdly enough, RQ is not only bursty, but also works best at artillery range. This is due to it exploding at max range, making it pretty hard to dodge at 1000 units. In medium range it's a slim skillshot that can be sidestepped rather easily and the targetting makes it awkward to hit in close range. However, contrary to other artillery mages, like Lux or Xerath, the RQ projectile - and with it most of Karma's damage - can easily be blocked by a frontline (or random minions).

Battlemage or Warden?

W is a weird case. Compared to RQ that wants you at max range, W wants you to be close. So close that you can guarantee both ticks. With its casting time it requires you to stay in AA range of enemy champions for a good 2.5 seconds. No other Burst or Artillerymages wants to stay closer to their enemies than max range or longer than to cast their spells. Not so Karma. Even weirder; if you aren't at perfect range for her RQ you are in prime position for her W; and those two set up one another. These unclear range advantages are probably one of the frustrations people have with Karma, even when she is objectively weak. Staying at max range makes them easy prey for RQ, moving in makes them easy fodder for W, which sets up RQ. And then you add the fact, that RW's heal is scaling with tank stats so incredibly well, that 12k worth of mage items increase the heal from 20% to 25% missing health, while a single Spirit Visage DOUBLES its effective healing for a quarter of the price. That's why Karma can play "Tank" in toplane in the first place, despite nothing else in her kit supporting that.

The way I have seen some Tank Karma's play, however, with AA abusing, mantra regaining continuous RE spam, Karma could even be construed to be played as a Warden. It's not a strong case, but defensive items (SV and IG) and utility (Ardent/Athenes) at least make her look like one.

Longest Root in the Game

With an on paper 3.25s root on a maxed RW Karma beats a maxed Morg Q by a close 0.25s. Pre lvl16 Morgana has the longer root though, so it's not as amazing as it looks. But still, what was once the "Disruptor" subclass is now the "Catcher" subclass and it's known for the CC, similar to "Vanguards". Karma's engage is obviously way too soft to be a Vanguard and neither of her mantra abilities catch enemies out harder than most champions with hard CC could, making her fail as a Catcher, so it is confusing that the crown of "longest root in the game", isn't a title that anyone from the Catcher or Vanguard category wears.



As you can see, Karma has qualities from roughly 5 different subclasses, even though her passive and mantra with their "more of the same" mindest don't go into either direction by themselves. Basic mage Q, burst/artillery RQ, battlemage W, tank RW, enchanter E and RE. The simple fact that E and its mantra version happen to fall into the same subclass might be the reason Karma is mainly played as a support these days.

Again, I think Karma's flexibility in general is fine and I do respect people's desire to play her in diverse strategies. But could we - as a communtiy - and Riot themselves maybe get their poropoop together and agree that trimming maybe 2-3 subclasses from her dilluded kit could make for better strengths and clearer weaknesses? Might I suggest cutting Tank and Catcher?

Your Choice

This isn't about MY opinion alone, I want to know YOURS. What subclasses do you think Karma should have? Note that any vote FOR a subclass also implies you want it highlighted at the cost of other identities!

The poll is a bit weird, because they don't allow you to tick multiple options. I tried writing as many combinations as I could reasonably justify. Please try to vote for the one that comes closest to what you'd like. And maybe tell me more in the comments

And here, as a reminder:

Artillery - Varus Velkoz Xerath Battlemage - Swain AurelionSol Ryze Burst - Annie Veigar TwistedFate Catcher - Bard Blitzcrank Morgana Enchanter - Sona Nami Lulu Vanguard - Alistar Nunu Nautilus Warden - Shen TahmKench Taric

59 Comments

dreadnoughtus0112/6/2019, 8:51:41 AM12 votes

I agree with what seems like the main consensus here in that Karma should probably be a battle mage/enchanter hybrid.

I'd keep her ability to sustain herself (but scaling with AP), shield, and ms but drop her **range **significantly so she needs to put herself in danger to be effective as well as nerf or overhaul her passive cd ult mechanic.

Most battle mages have reduced range on their core damage moves

  • Swain 850/750

  • Vladimir 600/700

  • AurelionSol 650+

  • Ryze 1000/600

Outside of Ryze, they are all under 850 range, but even he needs to get closer to deal his full combo; so I think Karma should stray closer to this aspect. If anything, I think her Q should be wider but shorter ala original Karma. perhaps an almost fan-like cone cough

To offset this, perhaps her Q could go back to healing Karma with a few second delay, which maybe she can then choose to use on herself or give to her ally after 1 or 2 seconds with W or E. Further cementing her enchanter status ala Soraka, Nami and Rakan. To be fair, support/enchanter Karma already does this once she gets Athene, so I'd double down this aspect.

I'd also appreciate it better that each of her abilities, like Senna, should have a enchanter and damage component. Lots of people have given ideas for this (including RQ healing zone, RW resistances, RE shieldbomb) which I think work well enough. I wouldn't mind losing out on some CC as well, as I don't think people pick Karma for her strong CC anyway; she should only have enough to be able to kite effectively and keep up her harass, that's pretty much it.

But yeah, I'd basically exchange her burst mage and tank/warden-lite identities for a truer battle mage and enchanter identity.

Heavens Karma12/6/2019, 4:21:08 AM12 votes

Enchanter-Battlemage hybrid definitely seems like the way to go. Also its a big niche in the LoL roster. I would prefer Karma to be rewarded more for being in danger range. Mostly because I think it would be pretty unfun for her to spam Mantra skills without having to either land abilities or get in auto range.

Other Enchanters are also incentivised to be in danger range as well.

Sona - Be in range of allies to give them Auras, also be in range for a good Crescendo. Soraka - Constantly uses Q to get health back to herself in order to spam heals and give bonus healing with Rejuvination, also to be in range for a good silence. Janna - Be in range to stop enemy movement with Q and R, thus reducing her shield's cooldown. Also her passive gives her incentive to auto early in lane. Taric - Needs to be in melee range to proc Bravdo, thus reducing the cooldowns of all his basic abilities and letting him spam 2 charge heals, as well as using Bastion to its fullest potential with all his abilities being in immediate range of his allies and his enemies. Nami - Needs to be positioned with allies near in order to get a massive Tidal Wave, making sure to hit your allies with it so they get double the effect of Surging Tides, as well making sure her W bounces as much as possible to get the most effect. Yuumi - With her mana on passive being added back soon, she is further incentivised to pop out of an ally and auto them to constantly refresh her own mana pool as well as refreshing the shield.

And then we reach Karma who is rewarded for being in danger with her Passive and her W/RW.

Also out of all the options it feels like the easiest to implement too. I do think cutting down on her CC in favor of damage/team utility would be the best move.

I think ideally for this kit the changes would probably be.

  • Add some kind of ally interaction to W. (Resil, Healing, Damage amp, CDR, ect)
  • increase W/RW damage. (on 2nd proc?)
  • Make RW's healing scale more with AP, rather than more to missing HP. (Basically NeuroCat's changelist.)
  • Probably add back RE damage, but it would probably have to be nerfed quite a bit since its last iteration (Either a delay of some sort or less damage overall?)
  • Probably shift more of RQ damage into the secondary portion rather than the upfront burst or add some form of ally interaction with RQ.

In exchange for these buffs you could probably cut power from these areas.

  • Probably go back to post VGU passive? (2/1 second.)
  • Reduce or remove RW bonus root?
  • Reduce or remove teamwide shield or MS. (I'd lean more toward removing or reducing the effectiveness of her bonus MS, since its more abusable by pros.)
  • Probably hit her safety in some way. Probably a reduction to her base MS and/or reduce E bonus MS.
Anu3isII12/6/2019, 1:11:18 PM11 votes

As an old Karma player, I wish she went back to her roots of a Battlemage/Enchanter. Bringing both Utility and DPS in the middle of fights and being more oriented towards dealing close Range AoE Damage over Single-Target Burst or Long Range Poke.

One thing is sure tho: her Q needs a heavy rework (since it drains most of her power budget) and her W needs at least some heavy number balancing, if not a full rework. As you said, her skillset seems an amalgamation of contradictions with no clear direction of how it's supposed to function.

I don't say she should be streamlined into one or two classes. I'm saying that from all perspectives, she doesn't seem amazing in any class because her kit isn't fully designed to support any class. However one plays Karma, they will most probably have 1 core ability and the rest of the kit would feel mediocre at best.

HP Crookshanks12/6/2019, 3:49:08 AM10 votes

I just want her (or any other mage that played as support (Brand Morgana Zyra etc.)) to be viable in mid lane.

LanceTheMighty12/6/2019, 3:53:03 AM7 votes

Reading this makes me want to play tank karma.

evilsforreals12/6/2019, 5:56:31 PM5 votes

Honestly, I'll just be happy when they pick a direction for her and commit. I'm just tired of the numbers buff/nerf cycle as if that's solving the inherent issues with her being OP/broken

Arya Starck12/6/2019, 9:18:14 PM4 votes

Totally agree with this post. She used to be unique, but her rework made her boring and generalized. Same thing happened to overwatch's Symm , isn't that funny! Totally homogenized post rework erasing all unique elements ... Revert Karma !!!! Karma

Jenivie12/6/2019, 10:51:51 PM3 votes

I really love how passionate you are about karma, it really gives me hope to be honest :) . After reading this I really would love karma to become a Battlemage/Enchanter for sure. It just fits the best in my opinion, but I hope if Riot does in fact pull everything together and start to work on her, that entails an entirely new visual for karma as well. We've seen what they did with Irelia, Akali and even Shen. They could make karma look so beautiful, with actual twin dragons visible in her kit. All new animations too! (Fingers crossed for a shield animation), but I also would LOVE to see an ally interaction with her W to give her that extra OOMPH to be an enchanter. I know that theyve tried already with that clothesline thing, but the ideas are endless if you put the effort in.

LycopolisKing12/8/2019, 11:31:36 AM3 votes

Thanks for doing this, I think it very interesting - and validating - to see so many people agree that Karma should be a battle mage.

Karma main who loves her character, I learned early on that she feels like she should be tankier champion due to her shield and tether, along with her CC. I definitely play her as such in support and top (more AP mid) weaving in and out of the thick of things as the spells come off cooldown due to Mantra and playing on the edge of her health with Mantra W etc. Her ability to maintain prolonged exchanges with champions like Ryze etc definitely made me feel she played that way, and I think it thematically accurate that she be shifted into a champion that wants to be in the thick of things and help lead her team to victory in the fray.

I'd personally love to see a potential rework really go in on her 'toughness' aspect without completely removing her damage, which definitely makes me think Battlemage like Ryze, Swain, and Vladimir. Never falter!

Bastilean12/6/2019, 3:15:14 AM3 votes

Shes sees pro play. There is nothing wrong with her, but I agree with you that she isn't unique and is mostly a boring character when she used to be Wisp from Dota who is very unique, so that's kinda sad

PaffWasTaken12/6/2019, 5:23:22 PM2 votes

Here's the thumbnail of the post, for people like me who wanted to take a closer look to it

CaptainAntiHeroz12/6/2019, 9:59:05 AM2 votes

Don't like that there is no Enchanter/'catcher' option

NaughtyWord12/19/2019, 1:09:43 PM1 votes

I'd like to see her in the same spirit of Morgana, a battlemage/catcher.

Neamean12/6/2019, 6:21:48 PM1 votes

Honestly I think they should just do the kayn route with her where she has a rhasst where she is battlemage/tank and a shadow assassin form where she is enchanter/artillery. But unlike Kayn she can stay in "base form" and be a jack of all trade.

Caretaker Jack12/6/2019, 8:53:11 PM1 votes

Kind of a rant but, I don't feel like battle mage is a legitimate class in League nor should it be one because anyone who ends up fitting the category winds up being broken or useless.

Ex: Akali Ryze Sylas Even Swain and Sol are control mages when balanced.

Draehl12/7/2019, 12:46:59 AM1 votes

I'd like to see her semi reworked into an offtank ranged support- halfway between Lulu and Taric if I had to make a direct comparison. So a Vanguard/Enchanter I guess?

Add a new mechanic where her skills have a different effect based on her distance from the ally/enemy. If you're in melee range they have one effect, but if they're outside of that distance another effect- these would be appropriate for the distance (IE her Q would DoT the enemy if used at long range an put a shield on her if you use it on them when they're in melee range). Her ult could play in with the range mechanic and cause the next skill to be stronger and trigger both range effects regardless of your range.

SouL1ess12/7/2019, 5:22:56 AM1 votes

Good, she deserves that.

Riot's rework intentionally split her kit like this and she would stay this way until another rework.

Kit does not work well in tandem? Just buff the numbers until it's OP (read: make Karma playable and not a shit champion). Lul

Warden Karma12/7/2019, 11:26:43 AM1 votes

I think Karma would fit perfectly as a Battlemage/Enchanter.

Deathfall12/7/2019, 9:49:32 PM1 votes

Post this thread on reddit to get a lot of traction. I’ma actually surprise the Karma community has come together. It shows that we do care about the champion and more so than this Development team. Hopefully someone will look at it.

CoolKnightST12/8/2019, 12:39:45 PM1 votes

The problem with changing her towards a battlemage is that it's simply not that healthy. She's way to mobile right now to be an battlemage so her E movementspeed will get nerfed or even be removed entirely. One of the more fun parts of Karma is interacting with your E for some nice trades. Her W is basicly design to prevent people to all-in her whenever they want to.

But their is another problem. Every bad Karma player out their simply spam RQ the whole games. The average Karma player will spam RQ during the lane fase and RE during the remaining part of the game. Her RW is only used defensively when they jump on her.

The issue is that whatever you say, her kit works right now. It's not that hard to use and their is a hugh differents between a good and a bad karma player. You really don't need to change a lot to make her an solo laner. Just remove the ally cast on her E and she's out the support role. You can even keep the ally shield on her mantra it doesn't really matter add that point. The real question is if that's really a good idea. Despite it might feel odd but Karma support still provide a lot of unique things compaired to other supports. She's an Enchanter that can match lane bully supports in the earlygame. She provide an shield & movementspeed to an carry that enchances both their teamfight as their artillery strengths. A good Karma can be the answer towards a lane bully mage support since she just has to match them while later on she's more usefull by providing more utility than her lanebully counterpart. She's basicly a more aggressive Sona.