Everything you need to know about Lee Sin

l Main Renekton·12/27/2015, 4:58:07 AM·6 votes·925 views

You've probably already downvoted the thread at this point, but, the boards have become frustratingly clogged with so many threads bashing him that there's a lot of common misconceptions that definitely need to be cleared up because it seems like everyone is excitedly circlejerking one another about information that probably isn't all too credible.

The "Winrate doesn't matter" Argument One of the most frustrating points I see about Lee Sin is that people say "Even though Lee Sin has a low winrate, it's because the bad people keep playing him that his winrate stays low," but then they contradict themselves with arguments saying that he's not a difficult champion, or that the only reason that he is fun is because winning is fun. However, Lee Sin has been consistently plagued with a low win-rate and this probably isn't for the reasons that you think. In fact, according to champions.gg, most of the most common playing strategies (Items, runes, masteries) don't really make that much of a difference. The way that everyone is playing him right now is pretty much the same, with little variation. Most of the specifics don't really matter in the long run at all. He's losing more games than he's winning and even for experienced player, his curve of "games played vs. win rate" is still far below many other champions (compare to Fiora, or Graves for example). According to numbers, he is pretty much not that unique, carrying a similar role as Renekton might have; he is a pest and extremely strong early on, but later on he's not all that useful. Of course that's a bit generalized but sometimes the most oppressive things end up failing in the end (like we've learned from marksman top phases).

The "Numbers are too high" Argument One thing about Lee Sin that also is commonly referenced as his "most overloaded" feature is that all of his numbers are way too high. Most players think that just because a Lee Sin is doing a lot of damage, he's automatically overpowered. However, most of Lee's damage comes from the bonus AD scalings on his abilities. His abilities scale ridiculously off of bonus AD which is why you never see a fed Lee Sin rushing juggernaut; he's not going to provide any damage by going tank simply because all he has going for him at that point is the base damage of his ult and situationally the percent missing health on the second toggle of his Q. After he gets ahead by building damage, he can then focus on getting the tank stats to get durability while perpetuating his damage output that he has already built up. Other champions do his job better - champions that want to deal pure damage definitely can do it better than Lee can, like a Rengar being able to burst ANY target however he wishes, or a Sejuani being able to tank far better than him. He's just somewhere in the middle and is so perfectly between the two that it seems to many players to be the perfect balance of both sides which makes him seem oppressive for being good at both.

The "Mobility is OP" Argument Most people have a frustration with the amount of mobility that Lee Sin has in his kit. First of all, this isn't even a point that has to be argued for too long. Because there are so many other champions with similar mobility in even more useful situations. Lee Sin uses his mobility to pick his fights in order to best gain advantage, just like Zed can get in and get out after choosing his target in a heartbeat with a safe escape, or how Vayne can use a constant series of tumbling in order to kite herself better, or Kalista can kite through her passive, while Fiora can dash around by hitting objects with her Q to reduce the cooldown. The point being, every champion uses the mobility in their kit to their advantage and this might make the champion's identity, but also provides the frustrations of the champion. Mobility is usually the most picked on reason that a champion is imbalanced and in comparison to others, Lee Sin isn't all that unique in his ability to get around a lot.

Point being, just because he's frustrating to play against doesn't mean that he's overpowered. If he's not winning his team the games, it can't really be said that he's overpowered. An overpowered mechanic causes a champion to be able to win the game in most situations reliably or give them a game-winning advantage, because in the end, the game isn't really about who can deal the most damage or who can oppress the enemies the most, but it's about who can win the games most often for their team.

TL;DR: you can give the boards as many numbers as they want but to be honest they don't really seem to care

8 Comments

Slamurai Jack12/27/2015, 9:30:23 AM4 votes

You're talking to a bunch of low elo players that never play Lee Sin and couldn't win half their games with him if they tried. You're wasting your time. They refuse to play him out of a perverted sense of "honor in battle", constantly refusing to play any champ that is considered FOTM or "OP". The fact that this "honor" also shelters their biases from any possible personal experience that might prove them wrong is just a coincidence, I'm sure.

Posui Gart12/27/2015, 5:15:44 AM3 votes

When a team will prefer having good Udyr jungle over good Leesin, you can come back here and you arguments will be heard

Hayaishi212/27/2015, 6:23:42 AM1 votes

Lee Sin shouldn't exist, however that is irrelevant to his balance state.

Reformed Dunni12/27/2015, 6:25:24 AM1 votes

Talk to me when Lee's ult doesn't scale off of 200% bonus AD and hp% damage, when it doesn't suppress you for 0.5 before the kick and while also having the ability to knock up targets that was hit by the enemy being kicked back, when his ult isn't 50-30 seconds cooldown.

BIue Monk12/27/2015, 7:17:24 AM1 votes

League mechanics are really really overrated, it is not that hard to get good mechanically, it's just some practice, I often see platinium players with mechanics that are as good as master players mechanics... Yet what used to be the "skill" was to have a good decision making overall, not just being good at landing Q's. And right now, PRE S6, you just have to be mechanically decent to win, even if it's bad decision, your random move is probably gonna turn good because landing your skillshots is waaaaay too rewarding... You should be rewarded by knowing how the game works, having an overall game plan, knowing who and when to gank, when to do what, how to get ahead as a team, what to build next, guess where is the ennemy team. You should not just win just because you individually deal tons of damage what ever you do from the start of the game...

This is not about Lee Sin only.

And by the way, @Riot, when you introduce Frost Queen's Claim and Blue Trinket kind of items, better reveal the whole map and do 5v5 ARAMs instead. Same thing for the weak towers, win only one fight and almost push inhibitor, where is the strategy there, it's just about picking the strongest champs for a 15 mins TF. Bring back the strategic dimension of the Summoner's Rift, and yes, that will lead to longer games !