@Riot: Immunity from dropping in Division 5 ruins the ranked experience.

Morior Invictis·Jul 26, 2015·2 votes·2,253 views

I gave it a long time since the new ranked system was released to see if my feelings on this topic would change, but over the course of nearly 2 years - they haven't. I have yet to see a benefit that outweighs the negatives that stem from being immune from dropping tiers for long periods of time.

For those that do not know: Currently once you reach a new tier (Silver, Gold.. etc) you cannot drop out of that Division 5 unless your MMR drastically drops down to the level of the previous tier's Division 5.

So, let us look at the main problems with this.

Once you reach a new tier, why try if you don't think you can reach the next tier? For example, I recently reached Diamond 5 where I now consistently have people giving up the moment we get behind because "they're Diamond 5 and nothing bad happens if they lose". Do you know how frustrating that is for people trying to continually improve themselves and their rank?
It promotes toxicity because people with no fear of consequences in games that they will lose are more likely to be negative and toxic.
It rewards people that do not deserve it. Why should someone be in Diamond 5 if they don't have the MMR of a Diamond 5? This is the main issue I have found with the system. Why should someone be rewarded at the end of the season for being "Diamond" when their play has regressed significantly and they could no longer hold their own in the tier anyways?

Why are we rewarding people for allowing their game prowess to stagnate and regress? If you aren't playing at the level of a certain tier, then you shouldn't be in that tier. It causes so many issues by allowing people to not care about winning in ranked that it causes FAR more problems than it gives benefits.

Thoughts?

9 Comments

TheVishualJul 26, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Morior Invictis,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lBEb92JK,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-07-26T14:27:54.465+0000)

I gave it a long time since the new ranked system was released to see if my feelings on this topic would change, but over the course of nearly 2 years - they haven't. I have yet to see a benefit that outweighs the negatives that stem from being immune from dropping tiers for long periods of time.

For those that do not know: Currently once you reach a new tier (Silver, Gold.. etc) you cannot drop out of that Division 5 unless your MMR drastically drops down to the level of the previous tier's Division 5.

So, let us look at the main problems with this.

Once you reach a new tier, why try if you don't think you can reach the next tier? For example, I recently reached Diamond 5 where I now consistently have people giving up the moment we get behind because "they're Diamond 5 and nothing bad happens if they lose". Do you know how frustrating that is for people trying to continually improve themselves and their rank?

It promotes toxicity because people with no fear of consequences in games that they will lose are more likely to be negative and toxic.

It rewards people that do not deserve it. Why should someone be in Diamond 5 if they don't have the MMR of a Diamond 5? This is the main issue I have found with the system. Why should someone be rewarded at the end of the season for being "Diamond" when their play has regressed significantly and they could no longer hold their own in the tier anyways?

Why are we rewarding people for allowing their game prowess to stagnate and regress? If you aren't playing at the level of a certain tier, then you shouldn't be in that tier. It causes so many issues by allowing people to not care about winning in ranked that it causes FAR more problems than it gives benefits.

Thoughts?

"unless your MMR drastically drops down to the level of the previous tier"

did you just contradict yourself in your own post

though I do think the league system is a poor system and un-needed, the game still does matchmaking with MMR (ELO). If you want to know a real trick it's actually easier to avoid bad people now because you can dodge without losing MMR and only lose LP

Use your judgement and play the matches you're confident in, if not you should dodge; there is no penalty except dodge timers. if someone is an idiot in lobby or you think team comp is bad, they're probably going to be an idiot ingame and the team comp probably is

Morior InvictisJul 26, 20151 votes

You misquoted me. "You cannot drop out of that Division 5 unless your MMR drastically drops down to the level of the previous tier's Division 5." - Big difference. You should not be in Diamond 5 if your MMR is that of a Platinum 4.

TheVishualJul 26, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Morior Invictis,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lBEb92JK,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-07-26T14:32:37.562+0000)

You misquoted me. "You cannot drop out of that Division 5 unless your MMR drastically drops down to the level of the previous tier's Division 5." - Big difference. You should not be in Diamond 5 if your MMR is that of a Platinum 4.

Again what you don't understand is that Division Rankings and LP are just a package around your MMR. If the guy has plat 4 MMR and you have real diamond V MMR, you won't get matched with him.

The top of Division I's and the bottom of Division 5's are shitty because of LP clamping not because people can't drop divisions

read these http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/22lq70/my_honest_opinion_about_season_4_solo_queue/

http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1ofp95/platinum_1_the_real_elo_hell_is_this_real_life/

if you wanna downvote without actually reading again that's cool too, I'm just trying to explain how the game actually works after having 5 years of experience playing it

Jack ProsperJul 26, 20151 votes

Just Reached Silver V after about 500 ranked games...man what I would give to have a Platinum 4 ally. Perspective is funny like that, isn't it? : 3

On topic: I agree with series immunity being too lax, because I saw it during my Bronze I games when Silver V players were acting like trash. I was desperately trying to climb out but many games they simply did not care. "Oh well, at least we're not Bronze, enjoy your loss noob Ima AFK now for you pushing top when I wanted to farm." You're mad about diamond trolls? Bronze trolls are a whole new level of salt, they call it ELO Hell for a reason. :T

A rework in promotional needs to be considered in my opinion. If Leaver buster detects two afks in your match, still give the enemy their rightful win, but at least give us victims a loss redaction for the instances the system deems innocent? It's bad enough being crapped on by players having a bad day (in solo/duo queue) It would be nice if the system actively pardoned those stuck with players blatently acting outside the Summoner's Code.

LadyRenlyJul 26, 20151 votes

Honestly, I just can't support the idea of easily getting thrown out of 5s. Those promotion series thingies are complete and utter chance as it is, you have to get a lucky streak of non-trolls and at least semi-competent teammates that won't feed so much itll negate whatever plays you could make. Then to just get thrown back down, and have to get lucky AGAIN several games in a row, that just sounds like something only a masochist would play

Morior InvictisJul 26, 20151 votes

Perhaps there should be a rework on the way that promotion series work then. I personally don't see how going through promotion series are a boon to the ranked system anyways - all they do is cause frustration.

Riot says all you have to do to improve your ranking is to win more than 50% of your games. Except in promos where you are required to win 66% of them.

StratJul 26, 20151 votes

Promotion series' are basically irrelevant, Riot themselves admit that. They're just there to give people a sense of achievement. At the end of the day, if you raise your MMR high enough, you will be promoted (if you lose one promotion series, your high MMR will put you in a second one within a few games anyway, and so on).

There is nothing luck-based about the ranked ladder. Sure, as you pointed out, there can be unlucky or lucky streaks, but the biggest difference that'll make is a division or two.

That said, I agree with the concept of demotion immunity since the idea of getting tier-demoted increases ranked anxiety and make people less willing to play ranked when they're, say, Gold V 0LP, because of ranked rewards and such.

Exta5yJul 26, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Morior Invictis,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lBEb92JK,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-07-26T14:27:54.465+0000)

I gave it a long time since the new ranked system was released to see if my feelings on this topic would change, but over the course of nearly 2 years - they haven't. I have yet to see a benefit that outweighs the negatives that stem from being immune from dropping tiers for long periods of time.

For those that do not know: Currently once you reach a new tier (Silver, Gold.. etc) you cannot drop out of that Division 5 unless your MMR drastically drops down to the level of the previous tier's Division 5.

So, let us look at the main problems with this.

Once you reach a new tier, why try if you don't think you can reach the next tier? For example, I recently reached Diamond 5 where I now consistently have people giving up the moment we get behind because "they're Diamond 5 and nothing bad happens if they lose". Do you know how frustrating that is for people trying to continually improve themselves and their rank?

It promotes toxicity because people with no fear of consequences in games that they will lose are more likely to be negative and toxic.

It rewards people that do not deserve it. Why should someone be in Diamond 5 if they don't have the MMR of a Diamond 5? This is the main issue I have found with the system. Why should someone be rewarded at the end of the season for being "Diamond" when their play has regressed significantly and they could no longer hold their own in the tier anyways?

Why are we rewarding people for allowing their game prowess to stagnate and regress? If you aren't playing at the level of a certain tier, then you shouldn't be in that tier. It causes so many issues by allowing people to not care about winning in ranked that it causes FAR more problems than it gives benefits.

Thoughts?

I see this same shit in silver 1. I hate it when gold 5 duos with a bronze 1 or silver 5 to try and carry their friend only to fail. They then begin to troll since they have nothing to lose. I on the other hand keep losing my promos and fall to silver 2