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I might have an idea why people think Zoe is op

Spârky·1/22/2018, 3:52:55 PM·9 votes·1,151 views

From all the hate threads I have been reading one thing kept coming up that nobody is thinking about. Everyone complains about how "anti-fun" she is to play against and the fact her q does as much damage as a lux ult+E but on a short cd is an example i've seen. But I think the "flaw" in her kit is that she only has 2 damaging spells or 1 with a damage modifier is the way I see it so if her one main damaging ability does no damage she is going to be useless. SO they have to pack it full of damage. hence why i think this makes the appearance that she has too much damage in her kit. Just my thought that makes her look op but I actually think its just the flaw in making a burst mage only have 1 main damaging ability is that they HAVE to overload it with damage otherwise the champion as a whole is near useless.

Thoughts? Do you agree or am I just some crazy idiot that doesn't know what he's talking about.

25 Comments

BlackEyesBlue1/22/2018, 5:01:47 PM6 votes

Personally, I feel like this whole "ZOE OP!!!" thing has become little more then a meme...

I agree with TC that it's pretty obvious when you play against someone who understands how to fight Zoe and when they don't. I called it on release that she was going to be the next Illaoi; In that EVERYONE was crying for nerfs on release, then a month later, most people had learned how to play against her and realized she was acctualy quite weak.

Now I'm not trying to say Zoe is weak; after the nerfs she's recieved I feel she's currently in a good spot. My point is getting crushed by a champion you don't understand dosen't make them OP.

skoulker1/22/2018, 4:47:47 PM5 votes

The reason people think it's OP is the lack of time to counterplay it. If you get hit with no sums/dash, you will die. It's not like a malzahar who has to at least sneak up to you and most of the time doesnt have enough damage to solo you late game, Zoe can do what any mage is meant to do but better and more efficiently (and at a much larger range). It's partly about only needing two abilities which means less mana usage and less downtime where Zoe is able to be picked off (which is made harder by her W). I don't ban her every game, and the games I do play against her I usually win but I understand the hate.

Filthy Rank1/22/2018, 7:38:27 PM5 votes

I mean when you are midlane and then a zoe support comes from nowhere (ss plz) and takes litteraly 90% of your hp with her Q, difficult to find this balanced, as a support she burst way harder,quicker and at a safer distance then me, while im supposed to be the assasin.

Ahri Baka1/22/2018, 7:58:55 PM5 votes

She isn't op , I mean of course laning against her isn't depressing as much as laning against Zed Talon Akali Yasuo Fizz Katarina Nasus Xerath Brand Blitzcrank Ezreal Kassadin Pantheon It's just my opinion

Oleandervine1/22/2018, 5:14:10 PM4 votes

What you're talking about is very true. She has ALL of her damage loaded into E and a very gimmicky Q. W may as well be wasted space, it's honestly worse than champs like Teemo or Gnar who have spell slots 100% devoted to passive effects - except hers is simply way worse. Back to her damage though. The thing about other burst mages is that they have to actually land a lot of their spells on you to burst you. They CAN deal as much to you as Zoe, but they'd honestly have to land 3/4ths of their kit, and it requires most of them to be constantly accurate with skill shots. Zoe, conversely, requires you to master 1 skill effectively. E is so incredibly forgiving that you don't need to worry about aiming with half the time. Combined with her incredibly short cooldowns, Zoe has too much room for error. Except, unlike someone like Syndra or Lux, you have 1 spell on a blisteringly short cooldown instead of 3. Lux can't burst you again until everything comes off cooldown, meaning she's got a pretty considerable window of weakness. Zoe does not have this window. She can keep blasting you with Qs relentlessly, and since she's only needing to master 1 skillshot, it doesn't take a lot of time for her to learn how to land them effectively. This is her major problem, and this is why she needs to have her kit looked at and rebalanced.

EDIT: Why was this downvoted? It's all true. It's absolutely TERRIBLE champion design when they are completely reliant on one part of their entire kit to do their burst damage with - which is troubling for a purported "BURST MAGE." I compared her to other burst mages who need all of their kits' damage to burst you down, and could not continuously do the same amount of burst as consistently as Zoe can, since all of her damage is loaded into a very short cooldown ability, and other mages need at least 3/4ths of their kits to burst you down. Zoe's kit needs to be completely rebalanced so that she has larger windows of downtime and isn't so feast or famine, and less skills that are nothing more than ways to supplement her Q.

Sister meow1/22/2018, 4:41:01 PM4 votes

tanks and fighters are allowed to deal massive damage while 1v5ing the entire opposing team (but for some reason they are still weak?) but god forbid a mage being able to burst a target down

Teridax681/23/2018, 6:59:01 AM1 votes

The thing is, the whole notion of Zoe having only one damaging ability is a myth: her E alone is capable of dealing 440 (+ 80% AP) damage, which is way above average, and deals a minimum of 220 (+ 40% AP) damage, which is respectable for a mage nuke. Similarly, her W provides an extra 250 (+ 40% AP) damage, even if it's more situational, and her innate is a little over half of Lich Bane's proc. The only reason her Q comes across as her only source of damage is because not even most mage ults come close to 750 (+ 165% AP) damage (even Veigar's ult at maximum damage has a lower base and scaling). In the end, the reason Zoe's Q is so loaded with damage is because she's designed to one-shot opponents, though if Riot really wanted to, she could have her damage spread much more equally across the rest of her kit via pure number changes.

When you look at Zoe, her "real" ult is actually her W, and the rest are just basic abilities, but even so, she really doesn't lack anything in particular compared to other champions: not only does she have a basic ability that surpasses most ults in damage, she also has access to a long-ranged stun that also happens to provide ally utility if she doesn't trigger the bonus damage herself, along with pseudo-mobility that lets her extend her range and buy time. If there's one weakness to her W, it's that the effect she gets isn't reliable, due to its randomness, but that also means she can also gain access to ultra-powerful effects that can completely turn around her lane, or even other players' lanes before anyone even has access to their own ults. Zoe is therefore overloaded in practice, which is part of what makes her frustrating to deal with, but on top of that she is also capable of gaining huge leads based on a factor other than her own skill (i.e. her W RNG), which itself only exacerbates her issues. Given all the tools at her disposal, Zoe doesn't really need to be able to one-shot to be effective, but that has nonetheless been one of her main selling points. This isn't to say that she's seriously overpowered, rather, the problem comes from her design itself being fundamentally unhealthy, imo, so that even when she was still at a 46% win rate in solo queue, she still felt unpleasant to fight against.

TheMoralSupport1/22/2018, 8:44:55 PM1 votes

Hm, wouldnt the fact that she only has 1 damaging ability also mean that she only has to hit 1 skillshot, not 2-3Lux to burst? Idk, but I believe that Zoe not being required to hit multiple skillshots to burst someone contributes to the idea of her being "unfair" to play against.

PokladnicaZla1/22/2018, 9:10:50 PM1 votes

She's not OP,while her damage is apsurd,it's that she straight out frustrating to play against.One E mid or late game means you're dead. Nidalee was nerfed for a reason,meanwhile Zoe's Nida with more reliable damage . . .

I've said it in many threads,I'll continue to remove the true damage from her E and make it magical so at least you can build MR and make AoE sleep spread out to it's max AoE ,instead of popping

aj24931/22/2018, 9:16:38 PM1 votes

Zoe is a lot like lux early game you can easily punish here if she uses her snare or q. her ranged autos cant out trade a typical mid laner. where she is dangerous is when later one she has the capability to one shot. as long as you arnt cc'ed or dont have an escape her max damage q is easy to dodge and if she cant lane any skill shots she is usless.

Infernal Ironic1/22/2018, 11:30:02 PM1 votes

Yes but there is a difference between that ability doing 3K and normal damage

Reduce the damage on Q by 20% Increase her E and Q cooldown by 1 second all levels

With those she would be fine

Also I would like to add

That window they gave us of 0.225 seconds to see Zoe in RRQ combo is not enough... for a young person reflex even

Z3Sleeper1/23/2018, 3:15:24 AM1 votes

She doesn't only have 2 damaging spells. She has her passive that she can apply a billion times in a fight and her W passive.

The fact is that 2 of her damaging spells deal RIDICULOUS damage despite her having 2 other damage tools as well. And they are by no means weak:

Passive: 12 - 135 (based on level) (+ 25% AP)

W: 70 / 115 / 160 / 205 / 250 (+ 40% AP)

Not to mention any damaging actives or summoners that you gain from W.