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Riot agrees about players' complaints about balance, but doesn't act.

Mephistophilis·2/12/2015, 2:06:36 PM·99 votes·5,130 views

Riot agreed that Zed shouldn't be able to farm and push so well. Still do. Riot agreed that Lee is strong in too many things and should be focused on his mobility. Lee is still a jack-of-all-trades removing variety on team comps. Riot agreed that tanky junglers need some help in their first clear. They still need.

I really don't know what they are waiting.

EDIT: First I want to say thank you to everyone partecipating the discussion, and reading the posts below, I feel I need to make a precisation. I'm not demanding that Riot immediatly fix these problems with a magic wand, because surely those aren't easy problems to resolve definitively. However the point is that even if we have been talking about these issues for months and Rioters often acknowledged our complaints, we didn't see a confident step in the right direction yet, only promises and plans. Especially in the case of Zed, they can't delay the balance of the game for so long.

84 Comments

SEKAI2/12/2015, 2:14:15 PM17 votes

When their presence on the stock market drops.

qetzel2/12/2015, 3:38:59 PM15 votes

Riot agreed that Zed's splitpushing made him unfair and lowered his attack speed to weaken it. More nerfs are on the way, apparantly. I would say that Zed is a hard champion to balance properly. You can't reduce his burst, because then he wouldn't be able to assassinate anyone, you can't weaken his shadows, because those are the biggest part of his gameplay, and Shuriken's already deal 60% damage after the first enemy hit, so lowering his waveclear is hard. They will think of something soon, don't worry.

Riot agreed that Lee is strong in too many things and should be focused on his mobility. *One or two Rioter's agreed - we haven't had an official Riot comment yet. Lee is still a jack-of-all-trades removing variety on team comps. Yes, but I think this is only a part of the reason. The other part is because he is fun. If he were as fun but different he would still be played a lot. Lee is not easy to keep viable but not appearing strong before a rework comes. He also seems like a fairly hard champion to rework, given the communities feelings about him. If you take away some mobility, the Lee Sin players will get upset, if you don't, the non-Lee Sin players will.

Riot agreed that tanky junglers need some help in their first clear. They still need. If - big if - tanky junglers' teammates help them ward the river in the first few minutes, the danger from counterjungling is significantly decreased. Aside from counterjungling, tanky junglers are fine (and many survive the first clear better than Lee Sin or Jarvan).

EDIT: I would like to thank people for replying to this comment and trying to start a discussion rather than just downvoting because they disagree with me.

Hard Penetrator2/12/2015, 11:39:53 PM7 votes

This whole season feels bad. I had my issues with previous one but I felt Riot made many good decisions here and there and ironed things out pretty fast. Now I feel that most of their decisions is straight up terrible and they still think they made another step to make this game better.

It feels like this game is a giant champion remake.

"I didn't ask for dragon, jungle, baron, turret changes" "Well here you have it, feels good?" "No, it feels terrible" "Too bad :("

A Miss Fortune2/12/2015, 4:17:50 PM5 votes

Riot is probably one of the worst companies I've seen in any sort of online gaming cases for balance. They will nerf perfectly balanced champions like Sona , Azir , and Syndra while neglecting champions that have extremely low win rates most of the time like Yorick , Evelynn , and Urgot and not doing anything about champions that can instakill and carry games just because their kit is so broken and powerful and they are rarely countered such as Zed , Kalista , and Darius .

If you expect Riot to actually solve any unbalances to the game, well, you're playing the wrong game.

LwaxanaTroi2/12/2015, 9:23:26 PM4 votes

They will do something, nerf Sona again.

PickleBabah2/13/2015, 1:24:46 AM4 votes

Guys, I am frustrated, too, but we have to remind ourselves that Riot is made of people who are human beings, and that it takes time to make the right adjustments, and that we make mistakes (some more than others). I am currently dissatisfied and do not think that what they are doing right now is the right choice, but Us, as a community must give them the benefit of the doubt and pull the "they are currently working on it" card.

BADxW0LF2/12/2015, 8:54:03 PM4 votes

Cause it takes more than just "boom balanced". They are researching and testing stuff on their own. You don't just get what you want right away. One thing that they change could completely make him useless, then THOSE people will bitch. Then he'll be OP again. Then you'll bitch again. Gotta test it before nuking him (step beyond nerfing). Plus, they'd rather make changes to the minor bugs/balances first because it's easier and takes less time. Longer projects take longer. Who knew? :)

HowPlayGAEM2/12/2015, 11:22:36 PM3 votes

A LOT of what Riot says is PR lip service to give the illusion of community feedback being considered.

In practice though, most of our comments are ignored:

  • Balance? ignored
  • Splash art? ignored
  • Refund policy worse than EA's Origin? ignored (seriously, Riot's refund policy is draconian as fuck)
  • Lore? ignored so hard they don't even pretend to care

I think the only real feedback being considered is on skins. Champ reworks depend on the lead developer; Soraka IMO was an amazing success and community feedback shaped the champ. Contrast that with Cassio

darknuke2/12/2015, 7:04:01 PM3 votes

Have you ever balanced a game before? No? Then stop expecting things to change so quickly. It's a very, very finely tuned machine that can be thrown out of whack if they move too quickly with changes.

Pryotra2/12/2015, 7:41:21 PM3 votes

All of those are pretty difficult problems. Done wrong and you get Post-sunfire-becoming-unique Garen. That probably dates me, but the point is they don't want to play whack-a-mole anymore with champions. They want to ensure they get the right answer.

utDOOM2/12/2015, 10:03:34 PM2 votes

Riot agreed that Zed shouldn't be able to farm and push so well. Still do.

Riot nerfed Zed's attack speed; they did nerf his pushing power.

Riot agreed that Lee is strong in too many things and should be focused on his mobility. Lee is still a jack-of-all-trades removing variety on team comps.

J4 is the better pick right now. Although Lee still has too much flexibility, he's not currently a big problem. Right now Riot still needs to patch up LoL after the DFG removal.

Riot agreed that tanky junglers need some help in their first clear. They still need.

I can outclear lee on Malphite and Skarner with sub par jungling runes (AD). Tank junglers have gotten alot of help in the new jungle.

Audiomancy2/13/2015, 12:52:44 AM2 votes

Contempt for the Weak now no longer works on minions.

This is all I ask.

Garlyle Wilds2/12/2015, 8:44:31 PM2 votes

Thing about nerfs: It's easy to just slap a few around.

However, slapping the wrong things is oftentimes just not effective at solving the actual problems - you end up damaging other parts of the champion's existance, or are completely missing the actual target, and end up doing nothing. And then you chase that line of nerfs until the champ's just become "weak" instead of "strong", instead of finding the proper way to slap them so that they sit on "healthy"

And sometimes those slaps are more than what just numbers tweaks can do.

Direwolfiez2/13/2015, 3:46:46 AM2 votes

Riot agreed that tanky junglers need some help in their first clear. They still need.

Increases the price of T2 jungle items in response.

"That should fix things!"

Yfrappefort2/13/2015, 5:24:39 AM2 votes

Jarvan is still invalidating all tank junglers. Still untouched in patch 5.3.

iainB852/13/2015, 5:08:03 PM2 votes

Ever since LC$ became Riot's #1 priority changes and fixes have slowed down dramatically. They can't rock the boat very much once the LC$ season has started -- it truly dictates everything about this game these days.

Vantooth2/13/2015, 5:32:07 PM2 votes

I think they don't want to rush anything... But if they would just... tell us or keeps us informed about the current state of things it would be a lot better. Like, we tried X and Y with zed, it wasn't good he still remained too strong or it gutted him in impossible ways, we keep looking for the solution.

Nkonto We Sizwe2/13/2015, 6:33:39 PM1 votes

I one hundred percent agree with you mephistophilis (creator of this thread). Riot does not fix any problems that they recognize and acknowledge but instead make it so that there are not a large amount of viable champions that can be played in ranked. Furthermore, the champions that are viable are still a cut below circa 10 champions who are ridiculously overpowered yet riot refuses to nerf them at all, instead they nerf other champions to allow these already overpowered champions to become behemoths. It is plain stupidity.