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Bard's abilities shouldn't all have downsides

Jamatrix666·4/10/2015, 4:47:17 AM·22 votes·2,877 views

I'll try to make this short. I just wanted to give my opinion about Bard, specifically his abilities. Before going into that, I would like to mention that I believe that Bard's role and identity are very well established. He's also unique, interesting and refreshing to play.

That being said, I also think his extremely low win rate is due to the fact pretty much every gameplay aspects of him have clear (and somewhat exaggerated) downsides that makes him hard to be truly beneficial to his team.

While it is true that Riot has buffed him since his release, but I am scared base stat increases and a few ratio upgrade won't fix his real problems. I may be wrong about this tho, only time will tell us.

Passive (Traveler's Call): Some Chimes appear way too far away from him. For sure, great Bard players are going to wait until they have a nice opportunity before getting them, but the fact remains that a Chime that appears away in a moment when you better not go and take it is an useless Chime for X amount of time. Possible tweaking: Reduce the range on where the Chimes can appears around Bard. Maybe even make it scale with the ult ranks "New Ult Passive, every rank put in his ult reduces the maximum distance where Chimes appears from Bard."

Q (Cosmic Binding): I respect the stun condition since it is what separates the good Bard players from the great, right? The thing is that pretty much every other Supports have a much reliable CC. Possible tweaking: Increase the slow/stun duration to 1.6/1.7/1.8/1.9/2.0 seconds.

W (Caretaker's Shrine): Again, I respect the delay from the shrine to be stronger over time... But 10 seconds? That's enormous. So many things can happen in 10 seconds. Possible tweaking: Reduce the amount of seconds it takes for the shrine to have the maximum heal to 10/9/8/7/6 (goes down every rank put in the ability)

E (Magical Journey): The trickiest of all his abilities. It's already hard enough to know when and where to place it in a way it will positively affect the game, allowing enemies to use it for the full duration doesn't seem right... Possible tweaking: Enemies who use Magical Journey lose X% of their maximum health as magic damage every second they are in the vortex. This way, long vortex(es?) won't be so appealing to the enemy team. Possibility of adding a AP ratio for more damage similar to Amumu's Despair.

R (Tempered Fate): Since this ability defines Bard so much and is so unique, I think it is reasonable to let it as it is.

Final note: The numbers given in the "Possible tweaking" can be tweaked for the better since they basically just served as concrete examples for my suggestions. What do you guys think, opinions?

Edit no 1: I forgot to mention this; I am not saying Bard needs all those tweaking suggestions to be in a good spot. 1 or 2 of them would probably suffice.

26 Comments

khorney4/10/2015, 3:02:39 PM10 votes

His q needs a longer range

Kingsgrave4/10/2015, 8:52:29 AM6 votes

His kit is also so highly situational I don't think we will ever see him played consistently. He is so fucking unreliable without anything that makes him better than others. Sure he has some neat things but he doesn't bring ANYTHING that I wouldn't pick someone else for.

Sirsir4/10/2015, 5:15:46 PM3 votes

Maybe even make it scale with the ult ranks "New Ult Passive, every rank put in his ult reduces the maximum distance where Chimes appears from Bard."

That wouldn't fix the problem, people heading out in the middle of the lane phase to collect. (They last for TEN MINUTES PEOPLE) It should just favor Bards side of the map a lot more. It really ricks me off when I see a chime right in the enemy turret range...

Q needs a longer range, in some form. Maybe make it work like Liss's, it resets the range on hitting an enemy. Another possible use would be for it to count hitting the wall first as a stun condition (stunning from across the wall)

I like the W idea. Maybe add some to the base at later levels as well, 230 isn't much except for right after you max it.

E is a really neat idea... Obviously it would be weak, and I wouldn't give it much of an AP ratio. Or maybe enemies travel through it are given a small debuff that increases damage dealt to them/reduces the damage they deal.

JumbaJoopleakley4/10/2015, 5:19:25 PM3 votes

I feel like the thing that needs to be changed most is his heal. For being a heal that: A. Can miss (people don't walk over it) B. Can heal less than it should (people walk over it before it's done. C. Takes ten seconds to be useful d. Can be interrupted by enemies You'd think it would be one of the best heals in the game, but it heals the same as Soraka's and Taric's at max. With all these downsides you'd think it would be better. Even worse, at max rank it's min heal is 150, but it's max is only 230. at rank one the min is 30 and the max is 70, so it loses potency as it levels up. All these boosts to his damage don't mean anything because he's not a poke support. Riot should stop being afraid of him becoming a jungler because no one's going to do it, just make him an effective support. I like playing bard, but constantly having people call me a troll and having games cancelled when i pick him shows that they've done wrong with this champ.

AbsoluteSadman4/10/2015, 11:49:18 PM3 votes

"ALL THESE CHAMPIONS HAVE NO DOWNSIDES"

Bard is released

"BARD HAS DOWNSIDES WTF HE SUCKS"

i love this community

Ugly Poro4/11/2015, 5:38:32 AM3 votes

How many of you have played Bard since the last update? I played around five games with him today, and I feel like he's in a much better place. At level 2, his Q and two autos will take about 1/4 health from a squishy, and with 5-10 meeps it increases to about 1/3. If you manage a stun, you get even more AAs (albeit meepless, but it's still damage). In most games, by level two the enemy carry is half health, so I set up a couple health shrines and collect chimes.

The only case where I feel Bard is a liability is if he gets caught out while roaming. If he dies to the jungler, his adc can expect a 3v1 very shortly afterward. Roaming will not only collect you meeps, but it will lvl your adc faster, giving you lvl 6 before the enemy. And if the lane is rough and you can't roam, you're still useful as a support.

Someone said Bard has sustain issues, and I'm sorry but that's wrong. I've had games where I don't back at all until about fifteen minutes in. Shrines and Chimes can be used strategically to keep both your mana bar and health bar full, and it's not that hard to do.

Another thing I don't understand is why people hate his Magical Journey. Yes, enemies can use it, but you go through faster, which gives you distance. AND they come out right next to a what? You guessed it; a wall! If only we had an ability to pin enemies to walls...

Another thing I've found useful is to set up shrines leading to your tower. If an enemy chases you, you have 2-3 speed boosts and heals to get you to safety. If I were to improve any ability though it would be his heal. What I'd do is make them stealthed units similar to Teemo shrooms (the exact opposite really. instead of damaging and slowing an enemy you're healing and speeding an ally), that way you can hide them anywhere in lane to sneak an advantage in.

All in all, I agree he's not the strongest and he has a high skill cap, but he's definitely not the worst support in the roster (hello Zilean). His buffs have improved him from unplayable to a high risk high reward, with a decent (yes decent) laning phase. The riskiest aspect of Bard is, of course, his ulti. I've found that I don't use his ult at all in teamfights, but it's great for: a) catching people out, stalling them to let your team catch up. b) suppressing the enemy adc/support long enough to safely take out the other. c) ohmwrecking the enemy tower to safely towerdive.

I agree though, his abilities shouldn't all have downsides, and despite my wall of text defending him, I believe he could be improved (maybe a choice ability ulti similar to TF's pick a card, where you can choose ally/enemy/both, or even eliminating travel time so it's just an aoe zhonias). But I feel like a lot of you are basing your opinion on the one game you tried him. There are a lot of champions I love to play that took some getting used to. Janna and Braum took a lot of games to figure out, and I still can't play Lulu (I like to support :D). I feel like if you give him time, more people will pick him up and we'll finally figure out how he's best played and where he fits in.

Puri Puri Taric4/10/2015, 10:30:14 AM2 votes

Taric stomps bards ass that should be enough to prove that his magical journey needs some legit downsides that enemys dont get a free gapcloser all the time.

Knight SoIaire 4/10/2015, 1:34:04 PM2 votes

Bard's abilities shouldn't all have downsides

i think its the other way around

bard cant funtion in our current game, becuase riot pumped out loads of champions who lack downsides to their strenghts

the way he plays in out game hints to him being bad, but i feel like its the league itself that gets worse and worse, we have loads of champions who get to have strenghts without downsides or downsides that cant be capitalized on

bard is a step in a good dirtection if we consider those circumstances

DanofDemacia4/10/2015, 5:35:26 PM1 votes

If you make it negative for enemys to pass through magical journey that move would be so broken allies already move faster through it.

MetalGearTeemu4/10/2015, 10:37:43 PM1 votes

I look at bard and I see Rito's attempt to bring in another well known primary dota2 skill in shackleshot, only they've failed to make it impactful and nerfed the rest of his kit into the ground around it.

Thumpin4/10/2015, 11:12:12 PM1 votes

I just wish he could cancel his ult early by pressing R after it lands. Not being able to unfuck your ult sucks.

BastionKross4/10/2015, 1:31:03 PM1 votes

Bard's kit is pretty situational, so we could safely load it down with some more utility without him becoming a CertantyT champion.

  1. Give his W some bonus if cast directly on an ally, that doesn't work if it gets turned into a shrine on the ground. Perhaps a shield? MS bonus? Additional AD?
  2. His E needs a secondary effect that assists in a teamfight. Sometimes what you need is to help your team win a skirmish, not take them on a magical journey. Give it some kind of passive, or an aura, or allow his Q to be stronger somehow (longer range, more missile speed, etc.) with more ranks in E.
  3. Allies and friendly units that are hit by his ult are affected only X% of the duration, so that if an enemy and an ally are hit at the same time, your ally gets the first move to run away or set up a kill before everyone else is unfrozen.
Stark60004/10/2015, 4:56:47 PM1 votes

he's one of the weakest champions i have seen come out. He is probably the worst champion in the game. Like you said his abilities have downsides/situational and are all skillshots. When someone takes him bot its an autolose lane because he can't trade and his sustain is slow. He's just bad and needs someway to either be tanky or have sustained damage.

Thefriendlyorc4/10/2015, 4:16:07 PM1 votes

I just don't understand why they gave him all this situational utility and nothing else. Meet damage is laughable until you get 60+ chimes. And even then you're so squishy you get blown up by real damage dealers. The delay on the shrines means little to nothing past mid gsme where everyone is roaming around constantly for objectives. With territory lost there are less places to put them that they will feel useful and not snuffed out. The magical journey is a fun ability that can potentially set up great ambushes. But it can most of the time just delay your death by a few seconds. He's far too unreliable to be a useful support character.

Zavern4/11/2015, 8:41:13 AM1 votes

I really want to see some way to earn gold and more EXP from Chimes. If I'm alone in lane, I could be farming minions for gold but if I do that, I miss out on Chimes. If I'm low on mana, I can roam around (if I'm able) and gain the mana back, but I lose both EXP and Gold while I'm away. If I roam at all without going on a warding spree and picking up a few chimes on my way around, it isn't worth it.