Boards›Gameplay

The Camille nerf missed the mark really hard.

Emelie Cauchemar·11/28/2018, 6:05:26 AM·47 votes·18,169 views

Camille's big issue in dominating the jungle is not her attack speed. Mind you, the .20% nerf is a joke in itself due to the nature of her kit.

EX:

  1. She receives a bonus to damage with a delay in attacking.

  2. She has attack resets.

  3. She utilizes burst.

All of these things completely invalidate the AS nerf. With how her kit functions a decent Camille may lose 1 to 5 autos out of the entire jungle clear. 5 sounds like a lot, but it's really not. Especially when you consider the fact she really doesn't spend a lot of time clearing her jungle to begin with.

Camille's BIGGEST problem is her E. Just so people can understand how disgusting her E is. From the middle of bot lane at tier 2 turret, Camille can use E and kill you at your red buff. With that knowledge, think of how much pressure she exerts on both mid and top just by existing . . . the answer is A LOT. With where the minions crash in mid lane . . . Camille can literally do red buff, walk up from the wall of red buff, push E onto the wall of mid lane and crash into your mid laner where the casters are in the wave. Your mid laner essentially has to give an entire wave of cs away + give level 2 advantage just because Camille exists.

Her E's distance needs to seriously scale with level to give people a chance to breath. It isnot hard to remove 200 range off the first part of E and 100-200 range off of the second part and give it back to her in scaling increments. I understand the range is designed to be very forgiving so she can collapse on people in the middle of lane. However, it was also designed with top lane in mind ((where you removed her from essentially.)) Removing this range will force her to position like most other junglers have to, actually be mindful of wards, and also give laners some breathing room for the first wave or two of minions. This also means that Camille will be forced to look for legitimate opportunities beyond, "Well, it appears X mid laner stepped in to the lane, guess I'm just going to 100-0 him from my red buff now."

Most other junglers generally have to wait for a certain period of time, a particular cc to be used, a movement ability, some form of commitment to an exchange, timers for wards to disappear, clear pinks. Camille does not. And this is all because of her E range.

Additionally. Due to warrior + triforce and E max . . . she's covering roughly 1200-1600 range through walls every . . . 6-7 seconds? With that I highly recommend jacking the CD up of her E. I feel this is incredibly fair. 20 / 18 / 16 / 14 / 12. This makes it so laners can breath, and also so that if Camille performs terribly she can not just out scale her mess up by having an hilariously low E CD to throw her body at people. However, if the Camille does do well she's going to have 40% cdr in no time and the changes will mean virtually nothing to her.

All in all, I personally feel this balancing team is wasting every ones time and I'm getting pretty tired of it. I get the AS nerf is supposed to "punish inefficiency/ slow clear." But there are so many A-reset assets these days it hardly means anything, and the issue is not how fast she clears the jungle, but how disgusting her gank potentials are. This will make it so she still has the same power budget ((hilarious burst.)) But it will make it so laners can play around her, and also force more effort out of her when it comes to ganks.

That's all I'm going to say on the matter.

79 Comments

xDelightifyx11/28/2018, 6:32:44 AM27 votes

Dude, always rember, that Irelia got nerfed by 5MS, everything is fine ;)

DM For Rat Facts11/28/2018, 6:09:07 AM18 votes

I find the issue with Camille is that her E is TOO far ranged. her E can land 2/3 width of mid. You flash or you die. Even playing on the side you have warded won't help - that jungler is too strong.

Tormentula11/28/2018, 6:39:25 AM10 votes

Her E shouldn't be allowed to go over terrain unless there's a target there. I think that would be a fair start considering how easy it is for her to terrain abuse the jungle. Let it be like kled, can't go over terrain, but can follow a target over terrain (if you get the extended range you can go over terrain, if you don't you don't get to freely escape, the fact she can hook such a far distance in general should be enough let alone go far and go over walls.). Targeting that also doesn't target lane Camille, since thats kinda shit atm and there isn't really terrain she can abuse in lane unless she's roaming the jungle, just that one corner on red side.

But fr tho, that attack speed nerf does hit camille jg really hard. Sure she has attack resets but those attacks come out slower (as in Auto - Q - auto - Q will still take longer), and it does hurt her farming a little bit. The only thing still strong is her level 2 E gank, but frankly that's all she has going for her, hurting her clear in general will impact her presence in the jungle (slower farming, forced to catch up later, get caught doing camps/lower HP due to doing them slower, etc). Any change to clear speeds even minor can have pretty massive results, especially if their clears aren't their strength and they're gank/cheese reliant (cause then they can't catch up or are too risky to actually lock in incase you get behind).

Papuga11/28/2018, 1:06:10 PM6 votes

I personally don't see the issue, even watching the clip. That was just a solid gank. Irelia had no ward that side, was pushed up and playing aggressive.

Though the flash interaction is silly. She straight up missed E and still got the stun.

From what people have said the nerf may have an affect. Slower clear means slower first gank. Plus her most viable gank lvl 2 is mid. Expect it and avoid it. Plus the slower clear means you get a few extra seconds with the wave.

I'll admit I don't play SR often and have yet to face it but I've jungled her in TT and she is super slow already in the jungle. Till tiamat she has almost no aoe and add lower attack speed and it should be rough.

BearGrillz3411/28/2018, 9:13:48 PM3 votes

Camille main here.

In all honestly, I think Camille is pretty weak atm with the new preseason changes. Her E range is pretty okay if you ask me, since it requires a champion to be there in order to leap that big distance. The reason why it works with her flash is because of how the game works, a hitbox is created when she dashes and it stuns them if a player collides with it. You could fix it saying if you flashed then don't stun but then that would ruin the integrity of the champ because there are a ton and I mean a ton of champs who can do flash plays much better than Camille can. Her stun is not even long so it isn't like you're stuck there for a good 2 seconds.

I've vsed Camille's up to diamond 2 and all I can say is that this champion has never dominated or carried a game alone with her e. She is not an easy champ to master and definitely an easy one to counter if you know her kit well. That e dash is so easy to juke, you would laugh if I compiled you all the games I made Camille waste her dash and let her dash into my turret instead [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

I can see by your match history, you vsed a Camille 2 days ago and won against her. Her kit used to be much more powerful with the old runes + when conqueror didn't exist. But now that true damage is accessible to everyone, she relies on that e to actually do some damage. Nerfing that e range would completely break her as you'd have to be super close in order to hit them (which gives a much bigger risk to actually missing). It may sound weird but the closer she is, the easier it is to dodge that e.

The attackspeed nerf is pretty noticeable if you don't take some runes that give you attackspeed but first we need to fix dark harvest.

I've stopped playing this game now, since every time I play a game, I see everyone picking dark harvest. Even our supports... Legit wtf is this bs

I may be a little biased over her e since I mostly only play Camille, but I can tell you that it isn't really that bad since the stun and damage is nothing. Damage was already nerfed and doesn't really deal much damage in the lower levels, if you somehow die to a Camille while trying to take your red, it's your fault for not warding your bushes/checking it before starting. There's so much you can do with basically any champ to counter her at lower levels because she's really weak until level 3 in terms of damage.

I'd worry more about Zed with those shop items. I've never seen my whole team get deleted so fucking fast lol. With dusk + stormrazer and his passive proc with domination, it's just insane. 1 hits us all.

Mael Jade11/28/2018, 9:10:43 PM3 votes

First things first: The quote "Only cowards run" should be played globally and extra loud for the Camille player him/herself when they run away with it. On a more serious note: A Level scaling with increased cooldown would really work for her. In early laning phase she will be less dominant with her W poke+Q/Passive winning her almost every auto/short trade and her E gapclosing when she actively has to think about going in or using her escape (kinda like Zed). Then, the longer the game goes the easier it will be for her to gapclose onto you. Also, her power budget might be a bit to high, considering the strength of all of her abilities: Passive gives a perfect shield for 1v1 since very little champions have meaningful mixed damage early on and are limited to one damage type. Q is a really strong ability because it scales up to a full true damage low cooldown auto attack with inbuilt triforce timer. W gives ranged poke and some kind of sustain (good thing they removed the minion battery from this). E is a long range gap close skillshot that rewards you with bonus attack speed for hitting a champion and the only danger of this ability is that you throw yourself into the enemy and her R is a guaranteed lockdown on an enemy they can not escape by any mean (assuming there is no TK in the game) while also giving her % current hp magic damage. Her kit is just really overloaded with strong abilities that ensure a strong game and fighting while also making her a perfect split pusher with Triforce proccs basically on cooldown with her Q maxed out and some CdR

Zeyphel11/28/2018, 7:58:00 PM2 votes

Agree with most of your points but when you say she does burst damage. She is more of consistent damage.

In order to do her great damage she have to stay fighting at least 3 seconds supposing she uses AA+Q1+E+AA+Q2. She can't Q2 directly like an assasin and do burst damage oneshotting people. So, her Q2 has conditions; it's not free burst like, ''I see you, I dissapear you.''

The nerf fits her more than what people think. It is intended to affect her early jungling and it does affect her, which you will feel unless you don't play her. She deserved the nerf, even though many people understimate stats nerfs.

I wonder why you guys never complain as much for the strongest champions and go for the ones which are strong but not the best choices. This could maybe explain why the strongest champions stay longer in the strong side than the others.

However, It's not like RG would take in consideration your opinions, you know.
[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Vekkna11/28/2018, 9:20:17 PM1 votes

How is she any bigger of a problem on ganks than...

JarvanIV Kayn LeeSin Shaco Zac

Except all of them can actually clear camps better than Camille, even after she has tiamat.

Superbathsalts12/25/2018, 6:32:03 AM1 votes

Lee sin can q to enemy jungle raptors botom side., W under your ward and q flash ult you to the mid laner