Fiora's passive and ult are too easy to land for how potent they are.

Dread Nacht·Aug 25, 2015·2 votes·2,449 views

In both cases 3/4 "vital" spots don't really require much maneuvering around your target to land at all, and once she hits one, the next ones are significantly easier to land, with each one doing 7.5% max hp true damage at max level (without including the scaling from AD), so unless she gets chain cc'd (which is unlikely due to her parry) you are going to lose 30%(plus however much AD she builds) of your max health in the same amount of time Vayne can proc her silver bolts on you.

This can be resolved in a very simple way that adds counterplay (since her current version has virtually none):

Make the vitals rotate based on the orientation of the target's body.

This means that if a vital spawns in front of your champion's torso, the vital will always be in front of your torso regardless of what direction you're moving in, as opposed to how it is now where a vital spot can spawn on the front of your champion and she can hit your vitals by poking your ass as you try to run away from her; this makes no sense at all.
Creates a minigame of "keep away" between the two players, rewarding Fiora when she manages to land a blow on the vitals and rewarding the other champion through not taking %hp damage if they can keep their vitals safe from her.
This change alone would bring Fiora down to being balanced without tweaking items or her numbers, something that the balance team at riot does in extremes (either too little to matter or so devastating that the champion might as well next exist [for example: pre and post nerf Sejuani])

This change would make mirror matches a spectacle to behold as well, as their gameplay would mirror that of actual fencing (the whole idea of Fiora is to be a fencer after all); weaving in and out of combat, trying to hit their vitals while simultaneously protecting her own. This is how Fiora should be played, not as a melee version of Vayne.

What do you guys think?

15 Comments

Weiner the PoohAug 25, 20151 votes

If they moved with the targets direction it would be impossible to proc

Dread NachtAug 25, 20151 votes

Impossible or too difficult for someone who barely played fiora to pick up? It's going to be difficult, but it's current form means it's game over for whoever she focuses once she hits one of them

ECNRJun 18, 20161 votes

If fiora's passive rotated with the champ model, then they could just spin in a circle and it would move to fast. The Pumpkin Kinq was correct. I rest my case.

PS: this is me reading your thing [zombie-brand-facepalm]

ShahamutAug 25, 20151 votes

Those Vitals are not that easy to hit unless your opponent is clueless to what you are doing, Especially in a chain. Unless my opponent decides to fight me, I don't ever get more than 1 in trade, very rarely 2.

Late game when she has all of that damage you talk about, its teamfights, and I rarely get more than 1, because I ult priority target, proc 1 vital and my team explodes them for heal zone.

Comparing her proc speed to vayne's is silly. Vayne is 3 autos which she doesn't have to maneuver for and she classically has TONS of attacks speed. Vayne will proc 2x faster than Fiora past the first proc. because vayne can proc as you attempt to walk away. Fiora cannot.

Changing it so that her passive vital is in orientation with the champion model might actually make it easier for Fiora, since it will be facing her more often and give more opportunities.

Dread NachtAug 25, 20151 votes

Since you seem to know an awful lot about Fiora, how would you counter her without using the juggernauts (which is pretty much cheating)? You can't trade against her since she weaves in and out of combat, chunks your health with a single auto (vitals), heals a decent portion of w/e damage you do manage to hit her with (vitals), you can't setup CC because they're all slow enough for Fiora to parry on reaction alone, you can't outrun her once she hit's your vital (especially if she has a phage); for most champions, Fiora is virtually unkillable. Tank items are mediocre without stacking them and building health achieves nothing.

The only difference between Vayne and Fiora is that Vayne has to play safe in the early game, and is generally easy to kill when it's 2-3v1, both of which don't apply to fiora since she builds 2 damage items and the rest are defensive items and still has competitive damage vs full damage assassins.

ShahamutAug 25, 20151 votes

Irelia can beat her, but its a skill matchup. If you can bait out her W, you can kill her easily.

Fiora is still squishy, and early game her true damage is not that high, whopping 3% maybe 4 if you stack AD runes to the max. Early game, if you want to all in her, just bait out W, she will lose. She might proc 1 or 2 if she gets lucky. Irelia is the best example, but Im pretty sure I could beat her with Renekton as well.

Obviously Garen would be good, but you said no Juggernauts right? Vlaadimir is another good choice, much better sustain, and range and escape. And he is point and click.

Go Rumble, constant harass from his Q will keep her away from farm and she wont want to trade early.

Have you tried any of those?

Dread NachtAug 25, 20151 votes

Irelia's stun is so obvious you can't bait it out, Vlad has a weak early so going all in isn't an option on him, Rumble gets destroyed by her post 6

ShahamutAug 25, 20152 votes

If you dash in at her and dont use your stun, you can bait her W. If she dashes in at you you can often get your stun/slow off before she can press W. Irelia will outscale and out duel her 9/10.

Vlaad's early may be a bit weak, but its fairly good vs Fiora who now only gets heals from her procs, which is fine for vlaad since he can harass safely from range. You don't necessarily have to kill her, just harass her out of lane.

If Rumble trashes her hard enough pre 6, she won't instantly be stronger at 6. Fiora's ultimate isn't that powerful solo because you can easily walk away from her, or put your back to a wall, or Use your own ultimate. If you hurt her enough pre 6, she wont have the items (but you should) to turn fights her way.

Just try those 3 out for a while. You should find a good degree of success unless you are just really bad with those 3 champs in particular.

BioticBronyAug 25, 20151 votes

Honestly, that idea would make playing fiora extra difficult then it should be. Hitting vitals is her bread and butter, if you fail to hit them then you either lose the trade or you waste you only escape. And that will make hitting her ult even easier as well so you will solve one problem but making another since you will hit the first two vitals that are facing you and when they turn around to run they expose the rest of them.

Dread NachtAug 25, 20151 votes

Her passive is essentially a better version of GP's without the cooldown. She is not balanced in the slightest and she needs something to be done to balance her out or else she's going to end up being perma'd along with garen and skarner (the latter two are getting nerfs so hopefully they become more balanced)

ShahamutAug 25, 20151 votes

GP doesnt have to randomly position behind you to proc his passive. Also, Fiora's passive vitals are really finiky, they dont proc if she is right on top of you, even if she is standing in the right orientation.

BioticBronyAug 25, 20152 votes

Agreed occasionally I can't hit that last vital that would save my life.

Mr Broken WingsAug 25, 20151 votes

bullshit, especially that her ult gets completly countered by qss.

Dread NachtAug 25, 20151 votes

lemme just build a qss on brand.... pretty sure ult lasts longer than zhonyas so that's the only option left for those who don't build AD, or build cleanse, which is shitty unless you're in draft pick and can weigh your options better than just blindly taking it