Using Riot's Balance Framework on Viktor and Jhin

shofaz·7/17/2019, 4:06:57 AM·153 votes·23,356 views

TL;DR: Using Riot's Balance Framework, both Viktor and Jhin are not eligible for buffs and yet Jhin is getting buffs while Viktor isn't when (arguably) Viktor needs them more? In the case of champions feeling bad, how does Riot determine which champions to buff if they dont fall under their criteria? Link to Balance Framework: https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2019/05/dev-champion-balance-framework

Riot did say that they created the Balance Framework to hold them accountable, so I thought I'd give it a go at it.

Before I start, I am going to say that I am a Viktor main so of course there will be a bit of bias, but I still find these results kind of interesting anyway.

Anyway, I was wondering that since Viktor felt kind of weak, I would use Riot's Balance Framework to see if he is eligible for buffs or not. So I went to u.gg (forgot where I heard this, but I think a rioter said its the site that matches their internal data the most) and globally checked the win rate of Viktor in each elo. This was done on 7/16/2019. I also included Viktor Top since a significant enough number of players played him top, so I did some math to include the total winrate of Viktor top and mid. After that I will have one exclusively done on mid lane Viktor since I do heavily favor Viktor mid personally. I still did one though combining Top lane Viktor simply because he was played enough to have a significant impact on the overall winrate and they also go for the same builds as mid Viktor. Anyway here are the results for mid and top combined by elo:

Iron: 53.39% winrate with 118 matches Bronze: 51.19% winrate with 7224 matches Silver: 49.78% winrate with 31758 matches Gold: 49.97% winrate with 42608 matches Platinum: 48.61% winrate with 20890 matches Diamond: 47.45% winrate with 7205 matches (2.6% presence) Master: 46.08% winrate with 217 matches (2.8% presence) Grandmaster: 50.30% winrate with 330 matches (2.6% presence) Challenger: 47.2% winrate** with 125 matches (2.3% presence) Pro play: Do not know exact number, but I'm almost certain that it is below 5%, considering how uncommon he is seen in pro play.

And here is Viktor mid exclusively:

Iron: 57.14% winrate with 119 matches Bronze: 51.13% winrate with 7944 matches Silver: 50.4% winrate with 35203 matches Gold: 49.75% winrate with 46883 matches Platinum: 49% winrate with 22435 matches Diamond: 47.35% winrate with 7527 matches (2% presence) Master: 46.91% winrate with 194 matches (1.9% presence) Grandmaster: 50.38% winrate with 266 matches (1.6% presence) Challenger: 46.51% winrate with 86 matches (1.2% presence)

So some things that interested me is that Viktor's winrate would decline the higher elo you are. I was somewhat surprised by this, considering Viktor is a moderately hard champion. However, I would disregard Iron, simply because of its absurdly low sample size. One theory I have on why Viktor has a good winrate in low elo is because people in that elo rarely ever see a Viktor and do not know how to deal with one. Especially since most people that play Viktor are probably mains due to his low pick rate (around 2-3% overall). But the higher elo you go, the more game knowledge players have, and know how to exploit Viktor's weaknesses harshly.

Despite these numbers saying that Viktor does not need a buff, I would beg to differ based on another champion Riot is buffing the very next patch that does not need a buff according to their own framework: Jhin.

So here are Jhin's winrates by every elo:

Iron: 51.43% winrate with 1919 matches Bronze: 50.21% winrate with 112866 matches Silver: 50.25% winrate with 327930 matches Gold: 50.42% winrate with 291052 matches Platinum: 50.32% winrate with 103155 matches Diamond: 49.61% winrate with 24423 matches (9.2% presence) Master: 49.48% winrate with 382 matches (5% presence) Grandmaster: 44.23% winrate with 529 matches (4.1% presence) Challenger: 47.89% winrate with 142 matches (2.7% presence) Pro Play: Don't know, but probably super low.

So according to Riot's own Balance Framework, Jhin does not need a buff either. So, why are they buffing Jhin? Probably because he does not feel so good to play at higher elos. Although it is less severe than Viktor's, Jhin's winrate does lower a bit the higher the elo you go as well. The patch notes even says "Adding some power into the part of Jhin's kit that rewards timing and coordination". In other words, they are rewarding skilled Jhin players who are able to more consistently hit their W root.

So why not buff Viktor for high elo, considering that his winrate is far worse than Jhin's the higher the elo you go? Because the way his kit is designed, it benefits more in coordinated play. Due to 2015-2016 and Tank Viktor Top, Riot has been immensely cautious in buffing Viktor as they think that he could immediately become p/b in pro play. But the factors that made Viktor so strong in 2015-2016 are gone now (less mobility champs at the time, Rylais, etc.) and Tank Viktor Top will not come back unless they buff his Q (which they won't do). So they should be able to give Viktor mains buffs that help people who are experienced with Viktor without causing him to be OP in pro play. Now what should they do; I dont know for sure. But I am leaning on the idea of either buffing his early game a bit or some QoL buffs on his ult to make it not so impossible to get at least one tick on the enemy champion.

That's just my idea, but the thing is is that both Viktor and Jhin don't feel the best to play atm in higher elos but neither of them fit Riot's balance framework requirements for a buff. And yet they decide to buff Jhin and not Viktor.

Currently I feel like Viktor is 'meh' but DOES have room for some small buffs that will help experienced Viktor players. And if Riot decided to buff Jhin to help out more experienced Jhin players, then why not buff Viktor for experienced Viktor players especially considering that Viktor's winrate deteriorates far more harshly than Jhin's the higher the elo you go? Especially if its a small and yet useful buff?

48 Comments

NY647/17/2019, 4:13:53 AM86 votes

Basically Riot punishes you for not maining a popular champion.

AYAYA Support7/17/2019, 8:27:34 AM32 votes

While I agree with your statement, and don't like RIOT's inconsistency I do think these are 2 different cases. TL;DR: both champions aren't very strong right now, but they aren't in very dire spot and buffing Jhin isn't as risky as buffing Viktor

The thing about Jhin is that he is quite simply outclassed by other ADCs. He isn't as strong late as some hypercarries and even though he is strong in lane, he still lacks power to be considered a bully like Lucian or Cait. What RIOT is trying to do, is make some distinct difference between jhin and other carries, as such they improve his catching tool to be of better quality, so as to amplify a certain strength.

If you look at Viktor, his problems are quite complicated. Since he has been changed to a control mage from a burst mage back in the day, he wasn't really a big deal if you disregard his sudden appearance in the top lane after klepto buffs. Viktor is outclassed by other control mages, since he isn't strong early but his scaling and range aren't great, champions like Azir or Corki with similar power curve, but overall bigger powerspike in mid to late game, and considerably more safety are just better picks for late game. For the early game there are plenty of picks better than him in the middle.

Regarding Viktor in the top lane, he is outclassed by the likes of Neeko and Kennen, who are just perfect bullies with great opportunities for scaling.

However, what I think is in RIOT's mind is the fact that he WAS a very big bully and powerful control mage. His kit is very problematic, because ramping up his damage might cause him to be too safe with the ammount of utility he has. Statistics don't show that but every once in a while there is a match with viktor who decides to go defensive route, and isn't behind. Due to his utility he can still be very potent threat that can't be killed by anything other than burst.

What I think should be done is just focusing on one viktor, so either a good utility based bully on the top (and in that case you just increase his early game potential) or a powerful mid to late game control mage in the midlane (in which case RIOT should decrease his mobility and shield from his Q, while increasing his damage output and potentially range). Otherwise Viktor is in this awkward spot, where RIOT can't buff him in any way, because of fear on how it will impact the other role, potentially making him spike too high in said role

Larriet7/17/2019, 8:24:12 AM20 votes

so I did some math to include the total winrate of Viktor top and mid

You should list them both separately, not combine them. If one role is overpowered but the other isn't, hypothetically speaking, he should be nerfed regardless. Ideally, with nerfs that affect only the overpowered role or compensation buffs that help the role that isn't out of line. Look at Lux this patch: Her overall winrate is actually fine, but support specifically is too high, so it's important to separate her winrates by role. Her changes are nerfs that affect her overall, but the compensation buffs disproportionally help Midlane. So overall the Support role is being targeted, despite a "combined" winrate not being out of line. Keep in mind that I am speaking hypothetically; I'm not attempting to prove you wrong about Viktor, as I haven't looked into it myself and this may not be incredibly relevant. Just a heads up for future reference.

Anyway, please do not combine the winrates, for the sake of your argument.

Dovakinh7/17/2019, 8:05:40 AM14 votes

they hate viktor dude it's only explanation

Seviel Vorose7/17/2019, 12:32:39 PM7 votes

Syndra

Too scared to do anything with her because they fucked up during the mage update and everyone told them so but they didn't listen. She's barely seeing pro play and she's having a mediocre performance there and in solo as well.

SpongebobIsLife7/17/2019, 3:26:00 PM7 votes

unfortunately, the reason that riot buffed Jhin, is more than likely because Jhin is an extremely popular champion. Even when the champ has moments of weakness, he still has a great play rate. This would be similar to if all of a sudden ahri's wr dipped to 46-47%. Riot would be quick to react bc there are so many people playing her, ergo her balance effects a larger amount of people than champs like Viktor, the same argument can be made for Jhin.

They probably want to adjust viktor, but it'll take em a bit before they do so.

Galactic Mayhem7/17/2019, 2:20:03 PM5 votes

I'm guessing it's the fact jhin sells more and it's nearing worlds time

SweedishGunner7/17/2019, 10:49:54 AM5 votes

We all know the reason why Viktor went top; item 3025 and Klepto.

We all know the reason why these items aren't being made melee only and stopping stuff like tank Karma going top; Ezreal .

Even when Viktor went top and started abusing the shit out of everyone his mid lane stats were still 'meh' and he still suffered mid lane thanks to how Riot responded to his top lane presence. Viktor's been dog for multiple seasons at this point but he probably won't get buffed and if he is buffed it'll probably be done incorrectly knowing Riot.

MalignMetal7/17/2019, 3:29:48 PM5 votes

Blatant favortism

Rock MD7/18/2019, 5:08:24 AM4 votes

Hi. I'm one of the highest ranked Viktor players in NA.

The reasons that Viktor and Jhin differ is largely based on what I would call relative capabilities of their kits. In other words, we compare them to their counterparts to see whether they need buffs/nerfs, and if the class is too strong as a whole then nerfs go out to itemization and the like.

Compared to his peers, Jhin is a bad champion. Early game doesn't matter as much for ADCs as (especially in high elos) ADs run teleport to get through the phase where Jhin shines. On top of that, the fighters that play into Jhin are generally way too mobile or too drain-tanky for Jhin to effectively combat. He also does not shove other champions out of the role when he's strong so Riot doesn't feel bad buffing him.

In high elo, Viktor is another story entirely. His kit is very simple compared to most mages, and is extremely abusable in lane. Winning lane against Viktor at a high level is almost entirely based on whether his mana bar gives out before your hp bar. That's why I call his E the "cooldown tax" or "hp tax". it's like saying, "okay you've been in lane for 15 seconds with Viktor it's now time to lose 1 death ray's worth of hp." He has to stay weak during this timeframe because if he's good at laning, he gets to bully you into submission and safely scale to late-game for free and we all know how disgusting Viktor's late-game is. That's why Riot is hesitant to buff him. Unlike Jhin, he 100% crowds out other picks when he's good.

As for Viktor's winrate, it's higher in lower elos because it reflects how long the average bronze/silver game is. I don't think it has anything to do with skill because Viktor is simple enough that (in my opinion) he scales exponentially with the user's lane mechanics and game knowledge rather than champion mechanics.

GrãñðmãstêrShãçø7/17/2019, 11:45:08 AM3 votes

Your Shaco brothers stand with you!

nm10107/17/2019, 3:01:07 PM3 votes

If we occam's razor it, the easiest explanation is that Jhin's skin didn't sell well enough.

chipndip17/17/2019, 8:02:59 PM3 votes

Your issue: Viktor is considered balanced for the lower elos (everything up to Plat). He's also a risk for bullying THE FUCK out of top lane if he's strong. Thus, he's not being buffed. If Jhin also had a risk of bullying the hell out of top lane and scaling into a late game threat while building tanky, he'd probably also not be buffed despite his weakening presence in higher elos.

I'm upset that so many of you took the sheep way out and blamed it on favoritism and skin sales rather than using the information presented.

JOKERG27/17/2019, 5:52:38 PM2 votes

They just fucking hate him that's it.

Pika Fox7/17/2019, 12:34:18 PM2 votes

The framework is not an end all be all always follow it. I dont know why they even made it or released it, as adhering to an arbitrary framework would never be healthy pr effective over time.

Gear5Luffy7/17/2019, 12:55:49 PM2 votes

Viktor is a hard champ to balance with his current kit if he needs anything is a mini rework not buffs

Nea1047/17/2019, 10:58:56 PM2 votes

Sorry to repeat myself, but...

{quoted}

Do you still trust this company after Season 7? :D

ƒrostγ7/18/2019, 3:15:35 PM2 votes

Well this could be applied to Lissandra and most other burst/ control mages too. Riot just doesn't like them anymore i guess.

Nefas7/19/2019, 12:58:16 PM2 votes

Riot creating rules and then immediately abandoning them is classic Riot.

Summoner SpeII7/19/2019, 6:08:32 PM2 votes

i would be fine with viktor buffs if he isn't returned to his absolutely disgusting state of being abused in top lane with kleptomancy with no counterplay whatsoever. If you can find a way to buff viktor mid without letting him get abused top, I think that beats me because there isn't a solution to stop viktor from being abused in top lane

REVERT MØRDE7/20/2019, 11:42:46 AM1 votes

As a reminder, they CAN buff viktor, but they absolutely need to take care of klepto, this keystone makes a lot of toplane champions completely unbalanceable and unhealthy.

WAR3217/18/2019, 4:23:57 PM1 votes

In my opinion, the main thing keeping Viktor from getting any meaningful buffs is how absolutely toxic to play against he is in the top lane due to the endless ibg klepto q spam (which, to be fair, had been nerfed considerably). Judging by the nerfs in AD to other toxic ranged top laners (kennen, neeko, jayce) on this patch, it seems that they are trying to move the top lane even further away from that playstyle. I understand that you are viewing Vik through primarily a mid lane lens, but his mid hasn't been out of line in recent memory, while his top most certainly has. It seems like riot would rather just keep him weak than let that top playstyle exist in any state near viable.

stone the blacks7/18/2019, 9:07:41 PM1 votes

almost all of riot balance team are adc mains except for maybe 2 but the marketing team is also the balance team with heavy bias

church arson7/19/2019, 12:27:02 PM1 votes

His kit is ten times scarier than Jhin's.

Summoner SpeII7/18/2019, 1:47:14 AM1 votes

jhin doesn't have shields, and viktor does, why would they buff a shield based champion lol

MuffledGarbage7/18/2019, 3:29:21 AM1 votes

Yorick mains like me have been suffering for years in this exact fashion. Riot's not gonna buff any non-popular champion unless they sell skins.

TheMinionLeader7/17/2019, 10:49:16 PM1 votes

Ryu won with viktor easily