Please don't make Rylais the "Squishy kite option" (Some arguments inside)

Goodnight Nunu·9/13/2016, 6:39:18 PM·43 votes·2,799 views

We already got enough problems with catching up to certain Mages and high priority targets and most of the frustration with Rylais comes from how easily Mages can keep themselves out of harms way simply because Rylais allows them to become kiting beasts.

Viktor, Azir and Co. with their high range and low CD's are especially frustrating to play against because they can simply apply the slow from range. Hell, the bit of health it provides isn't really an issue as most champions who can close the distance have more than enough damage to kill them but the kite is really hard to deal with.

Not to mention most of the champions who "abuse" Rylais have other CC, often even hard ones to keep their assailants at bay. Most ADC's are toast if they suck at kiting, and they manage to do so without a perma-slow item, so why do squishy mages with enough tools in their kit need to have even more safety?

Rylais should be an item option to combat kiting, not the other way around. A lot of its intended users (Singed, Mordekaiser, Karthus, etc.) are champions who rely on its slow to even get their damage off and deal with getting kited to hell and back due to them lacking dashes or long ranged hard cc.

I'm tempted to say that mages building it is a problem because they become way too hard to escape from/chase/engage on due to them just kiting you. Nerfing its damage and the slow amount on maybe ranged/aoe/whatever would be the best option in my opinion as it would make it a ton less desirable for most mages who just love having a high damage item that provides them with all the safety they need.

Make it somewhat like Zhonyas as in being an OPTION, cheaper and usually being built either by champions who just need it or as a situational item if facing a lot of slippery teams.

But really, I feel it would be overkill to give "Squishy Mages" an even bigger safety net seeing that they already have the tools to stay out of harms way and them becoming virtually inescapable/untouchable would be really annoying for a lot of champions.

48 Comments

Sona x Rubick9/13/2016, 6:51:58 PM12 votes

i'm sure they won't tranform it into a "squishy option", this would be a huge mistake, Amumu Mordekaiser Singed Vladimir even Chogath buys it to permaslow with E.

if they reduced the AP massively and increased hp even SkarnerVolibear would be helped (voli slowing with R)

HazyCloud79/13/2016, 11:34:11 PM11 votes

Heaven forbid mages have something to keep all of the high mobility bruisers from running them over like a freight train.

Durfain9/13/2016, 8:37:04 PM8 votes

We have enough "cheap" AP items as it is.. we really don't need more. I cannot stress how low on AP end game mage builds are these days...

Redaga9/13/2016, 8:15:25 PM6 votes

"yeah lets remove that 1 item that let squishy and immobile champs have a chance to kite and escape, and instead add it to the plethora of items tanks already have"

HELL NO

Dengeden9/13/2016, 8:57:08 PM5 votes

Most ADC's are toast if they suck at kiting, and they manage to do so without a perma-slow item, so why do squishy mages with enough tools in their kit need to have even more safety?

Because red buff, BoRK, MS from Zeal items and supports?

Wyrmblade9/13/2016, 11:19:49 PM4 votes

I'm okay with whatever happens to Rylais as long as they compensate Mordekaiser.

majulito9/13/2016, 8:49:29 PM3 votes

Mages build rylais because it has one of the highest ap values without needing to build up like roa/archangels or a steep price point like deathcap. Also with the influx of all the cdr riot added and the overall decrease in ap from items mages are forced into a more utility role and rylias works perfectly in the environment riot has created.

Guyy Fieri9/13/2016, 8:17:32 PM3 votes

I don't know why people are butt hurt about this item, as well as Frozen Mallet. There is an item that costs literally 900 gold that can counter this...boots of swiftness. Are they always the optimal build for some champs? No but if you need a little bit of slow resist, there ya go.

Even Merc Treads will reduce the duration of the slow so it actually helps out as well. Sometimes you just have to alter your build a little bit from game to game based on what the enemy team has and if you don't, then you lost the chance to counter play them.

HaloDragonX9/13/2016, 9:49:34 PM2 votes

So can we just do this? Please.

Rylai's Crystal Scepter

3000 gold

Needlessly Large Rod + Giant's Belt

400 HP, 80 AP

Passive: Spells apply a slow based on type:

Single Target: 35% for 1 second.

AoE: 20% for 1 second.

Multi-Hit, Damage over Time, and Summoned Minions: 20% for 1 second.

Notice what I did? I fixed the item by letting it not permaslow and have a drawback of lesser AP. Now personally I'd like to see the AP on Luden's buffed so we have an opposite to Rylai's. A squishy damage kiting option.

xBushx9/13/2016, 6:47:01 PM2 votes

Make it the "Squishy Kite" item and we won't have any itemization problems. Cough tank Ekko (implying that no matter what as long as the utility is enough ANYONE will build this) We end up with the same issues when itemization was changed for bruisers. Every carry rushes them and becomes unstoppable.

Critmaster Garen9/13/2016, 11:11:17 PM2 votes

the fact how easily squishy mages can kite with rylais is the entire issue with it right now.

the stats arent the problem, its the permaslows.

give the item a windowed slow mechanic. strong slows are acceptable in small packages, not constantly reapplied.

even karthus shouldnt rely on rylais to hit his shit and keep enemies in range. if he does, then something is wrong with his kit. because its balanced around hitting his wall to kite and chase.

D2Vincent9/14/2016, 4:36:21 AM2 votes

As a Karthus Main, I'm a little unsure on the plan on changing Rylai's since it's a very core item on him no matter what build you go. I usually use it as a way to help the rest of my team initiate so nobody can get away. I mean if they up the health and lower the AP it might be good to be more tanky, but on the other hand, Most Karthus builds have him get as much AP as possible.

Elikain9/14/2016, 11:34:59 AM2 votes

One of the problems with Rylai's currently is that there's no drawback to buying it at all. It grants same AP as other items in it's line, slow on spells and HP, making it a better purchase if you are looking to survive longer. Unless you rely on spamming abilities that much, some MP/HP options are available as well.

In the end, mages don't end up building like mages, they end up buying tanky AP items even on champions that don't need them as the stats themselves pay become efficient the longer the game lasts.** I was hoping they'd do the same thing as with Zhonya's as i now think the item is in a good spot. A defensive AP option that isn't being rushed unless really needed.**

That being said, i'll just wait for my downvotes as i said i liked something the community has labeled as bad. [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Seenan9/14/2016, 5:30:41 PM1 votes

Viktor wouldn't be a problem if he had to build something else instead of Rylai's after his Hex Core. But no, his mana is supplemented by the core too. :/

NineTailedMystic9/13/2016, 9:48:21 PM1 votes

At least replace it with a different high AP item or buff Deathcaps cost. Incredibly painful to build.

baayveer9/13/2016, 10:15:14 PM1 votes

guess goodbye for Azir item 3070 item 3070 item 3070 item 3070

PhDs Nuts9/13/2016, 10:18:11 PM1 votes

What if it was the AP version of Black Cleaver's passive instead? It gives the user a speed boost instead of a slow to the target. Mages can still kite, but they don't automatically kill whoever they throw a DoT/long range ability on anymore because their teammates don't benefit from the passive.

ZT Xperimentor9/13/2016, 10:18:31 PM1 votes

Same things should be applied to the frozen mallet, some marksmen are already a chore to chase.

Lock On9/13/2016, 11:42:43 PM1 votes

Rylais needs maybe a reasonable cooldown between spells, like say (<edit>) a few seconds. Frozen Gauntlet could use a similar nerf too.