League Of Legends Designer Admits They Messed Up The Jungle

white Eragon·3/10/2015, 6:41:39 PM·37 votes·5,123 views
League Of Legends Designer Admits They Messed Up The Jungle

Now they are admitting their mistake, this is the first step in solving their messed up problem...now the second part is that they should fucking fix it immediately . A quick reminder: “Jungler” is a unique position on a League of Legends team, one that puts the player in-between the map’s three main lanes that the four other players are assigned at the start of a match. Jungling therefore involves managing two different responsibilities simultaneously: killing a series of computer-controlled monsters in relative isolation (i.e., without the help of your teammates) and dropping in on any of the three lanes to assassinate opponents or help your teammates do so by “ganking” (think “gang kill”) enemies.

Given its specific requirements and its importance for the rest of the team, jungler is a tough position to play in League of Legends. The changes that Riot made in its recent 5.4 patch were unwelcome to many League fans because players felt they were making an already hard position even harder. The added difficulty in turn meant that only a small slice of the game’s wide array of colorful characters could even hope to perform adequately in the jungle.

Many players didn’t appreciate the changes to League’s jungle, then, because they felt the adjustments limited the diversity in character selection—a big part of what makes the game so darn fun, seeing how it has more than 120 champions to choose from and play with. In his GameSpot interview (which followed a related talk he gave last week at the Game Developer’s Conference), Scott explained that the 5.4 changes were in fact designed to resolve a problem with the jungle—just not the one that many League fans might have been thinking of (emphasis mine):

41 Comments

Learn 2 Swim3/10/2015, 9:38:39 PM38 votes

Riot admits they failed at the jungle changes because Lee Sin isn't #1 right now.

The Red Warden3/10/2015, 8:20:01 PM11 votes

Not trying to contradict but why did you specify it as a "league of legends" designer?

It's not as if Blizzard or Valve sent out designers to try and mess up Lol... wait a minute...

Illuminati confirmed

Junkο3/10/2015, 9:02:48 PM9 votes

Soooo when are they gonna admit they fucked up Veigar?

killd0zer3/10/2015, 9:42:24 PM5 votes

Kotaku

ignored

Thresh Outta Fux3/10/2015, 8:54:19 PM5 votes

I just found out I can clear the jungle as Sion without using a health pot, and only smiting twice.

Who knew?

But honestly, the jungle is difficult for any player who isn't 100% geared for jungling.

TauNoob13/10/2015, 9:10:56 PM4 votes

I strongly disagree with the direction they're trying to take the jungle in. If you don't want junglers to have an impact in lanes early game than that almost removes the point in them entirely. They obviously won't have any impact in lanes mid/late game since the laning phase ends and that means that if you DO want a lane advantage (something arguably more valuable that a jungler farming for 10-15 minutes) you'll need to have a 2nd support in another lane. If it turns out the way I think it will I wouldn't be surprised to see a huge shift to 2-1-2 laning soon.

Kuroi863/10/2015, 10:51:58 PM3 votes

The initial interview with Morello

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/balancing-an-esport-and-designing-the-jungle-an-in/1100-6425770/

Also, Morello's comments on the jungle in the interview.

So I think there are a few major issues to talk about. I'm still glad we went this direction in the jungle, but it just shows we have a lot more room to fix things. Our goal was to limit jungle early-game impact deciding lanes, which is not a popular view. But that's a good decision and I still believe in that. The problem is, we didn't return anything to the jungler. Like, a jungler scale. How do they perform well? If we say don't just dump on lanes and decide lines, what else are you giving us in return? And I think that's very valid. If you're going to remove our options, where's our new stuff?

And for several seasons, that continual reduction of jungler impact intentionally is geared towards trying to make the game something where lanes can have more of their own agency, and junglers have some impact but not the level of what we saw in season 2."

So, for one, I think that goal is correct. Two, I think we have not done a good job in providing new options and new depth and new ways to succeed in the jungle that are either exciting or understandable at all, or even available. Three, we missed one major thing that we planned on doing, and procedurally, I'm not actually sure why this happened, but it's something we'll have to talk about.

Lee Sin and Jarvan are still a problem. We can do anything we want to the jungle, and until we fix those champions, they're going to be a problem, which then limits additional diversity. Then we have a system that moves and does some different stuff -- how does that affect diversity? Well, some things we know and some things we don't. But the champions stay stable. So we can do anything we want to the jungle and you're going to pick Lee Sin almost every time unless we make it so that he can't jungle.

We have work to do on the champion side, so it's multifaceted. I think the complaints are very valid. I don't think the complaints are focused on the root cause of the problem, but that’s not the players' job so that's okay. What can we learn from that feedback is really the takeaway and what I’ve learned is that junglers are dissatisfied. Junglers aren't having a good time in the jungle and even if our original goal is good, it is not sufficient to just take that away. And there are additional champion problems that intersect with this and make it worse. That would be my takeaway from this.

Well, that shuts me up. I thought Lee Sin had been decidedly dethroned as king of the jungle. Apparently Riot thinks he needs to be brought down another peg. The question is, once they've done their testing on test servers, what is the next hit to be taken?

Daharahj3/11/2015, 12:52:07 PM3 votes

Junglers shouldn't be able to gank lanes prior to five minutes at least, PERIOD.

Lee sin should get nerfed to unplayability until they can rework him, his kit has just too much of everything.

The Lasher3/11/2015, 1:29:36 PM2 votes

Why do you guys always have to pick on Lee Sin? I mean the dudes blind for God's sake! I mean, It's rough just being unable to see 24/7 without you guys asking to beat him with bats of the nerf variety. I mean, what's the worst thing a blind guy can do? XDLeeSin

Next3/11/2015, 5:59:38 PM1 votes

well that's an eye opener

AMYS GRAVE3/11/2015, 8:16:36 PM1 votes

tl;dr of my post: What are RIOT's values? By what metrics are you evaluating healthy gameplay and design?

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/PzBHzapE-question-for-morello-on-game-values

I would love to get this conversation started between riot and us...