Everyone is talking about Dark Harvest and Irelia/etc. But can we talk about this?

Apocalypsic·11/26/2018, 6:43:52 AM·34 votes·12,091 views

This is not OK. This champion is and has actually been so obscenely busted for patch after patch now and it's to the point that I can't feel comfortable locking into a game without banning this guy. No matter how behind he is he always finds a way to just completely take over the game in a way that is just completely unfair for the enemy team to deal with. The champion is really overloaded right now and lacks proper counter-play in this current gamestate.

36 Comments

Weirding11/26/2018, 7:41:34 AM16 votes

Jax is always a solid pick. He has never been "bad" at any point, but there have been times when he wasn't the best choice for his given roles and thus overlooked.

Remember that Jax is one of the few true hypercarries in League. In addition to having great mobility and excellent defensive options, his damage output potential scales WAY past almost every other champion in the game. On top of this, he has easy-to-use, point-and-click abilities and always-on passive buffs that allow his pilot to focus on the action instead of having to hit skillshots; the only skill you really need is the ability to orbwalk well. He's a lane bully and his jungling ganks are brutal. His hybrid damage means that you can't stack just one form of defense against him if he is doing well.

Heaven help you if he has a Lux, Morgana, Thresh, Pike or Blitzcrank on his team who can hit skillshots. He can absolutely delete anything other than a tank in the space of a root or hook.

SociaI Justice11/26/2018, 2:03:00 PM13 votes

just dumpster him with the -5 ms already

AirKingNeo11/26/2018, 12:41:15 PM10 votes

https://www.op.gg/champion/jax/statistics/top

sounds slightly above average to me

Warlord Rhinark11/26/2018, 7:57:12 AM6 votes

Reduce the AS he gets from his passive.
Remove the AOE damage reduction he gets from his E.
Reduce his R duration.

There.

DM For Rat Facts11/26/2018, 7:21:57 AM6 votes

He hasn't been that strong until this and last patch.

ORlANNAGRANDE11/26/2018, 10:57:53 PM5 votes

I used to Ban Jax every game but then I realized for some reason 1) not a lot of people play him and 2) there are ways to outplay him.

I started banning zed every game instead

Karn Bishop11/26/2018, 5:49:32 PM4 votes

When jax is strong its because there is something fundamentally wrong with the games overall balance, nothing has changed about jax what has changed is the games balance power curve.

Princess Bunhead11/26/2018, 1:09:42 PM4 votes

Please remove/rework conqueror for a start - the true dmg part is pure cancer.

xDogMeatx11/26/2018, 7:31:32 AM4 votes

What if i say yes then sooooo... New akali isnt any worse than jax oh wait she is more cancer as in no matter how good you do all that matters is that if akali messes up or else u lose... same goes with fiora (to a smaller degree)then irelia auto wins late game yes i do mean in a experienced player. they pretty much auto win jax at least can get buried 10 ft of cc while the others cant even if u lose a teamfight due to all outing these champs its a win in my book when they die due to bs steroids they get. Heres a hint use aoe to pierce their single target defenses so u can focus more targets = more damage= less damage to you= win

PaffWasTaken11/27/2018, 2:08:49 AM3 votes

I mean... this is how Jax has been for years now, I don't think there's a problem about a melee hypercarry doing melee hypercarry things. Everyone is complaining about his kit being overloaded, even though everything he does, he does it quite less effectively than other champions and he needs those varous aspects of his kit to be able to do what he needs to. His job at a certain point is to kill carries, so he needs mobility to do so. Since his mobility is arguably really really underwhelming when compaired to full-front assassins, he then needs more survivability. Since he is a toplaner and his survivability is (again) quite underwhelming when compaired to other bruisers and full tanks, he also need more scaling and more sustained damage. Since his damage is (oh, looks like a pattern) most often than not inferior to mid or botlane carries (I'm not taking into account the bullsh!t from conqueror), he also needs CC to be relevant.

I also think that Jax may be a bit overtuned right now, but this is mainly because of outside factors like the busted rune system and the fact that assassins and anything with mobility/damage combinations are the absolute meta. Compare his kit to things like Irelia or Akali , and you discover that the things we truly need to nerf are everything that got powercrept in the game, be it items, runes or gold income

Noraver11/26/2018, 12:28:30 PM3 votes

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This is not OK. This champion is and has actually been so obscenely busted for patch after patch now and it's to the point that I can't feel comfortable locking into a game without banning this guy. No matter how behind he is he always finds a way to just completely take over the game in a way that is just completely unfair for the enemy team to deal with. The champion is really overloaded right now and lacks proper counter-play in this current gamestate.

Remove his ability to slap you for half of your HP while he's counter-attacking and the AoE damage reduction he receives as well. Should be a good place to start. Giving one of the hardest-hitting champions in the game 70+ armor and magic resistance free, the ability to dodge autos, and 25% AoE damage reduction they can use all at the same time while sacrificing nothing in terms of offensive power (In fact, gaining defensive stats from offensive stats instead) is a horrible design and literally covers any weakness he might have.

Biggest MO3 Fan11/27/2018, 3:34:20 AM3 votes

Jax himself hasnt been changed in a while. Its items and runes.... Seriously look at it, dont gut this champion because hes Good right now , nerf the items he uses. I play this champion , like a lot , and hes one of the few good bruisers right now and i enjoy him. And i see everyday people complaing 'jAX iS bRokEn' 'hyBrid DmG' , his mixed damage isnt really such a huge factor unless he gets item 3146 , which he almost never builds. Would you rather have his W scale off ad instead of ap???? Then everyone will cry even more. Hes strong but not on the point of broken like Irelia Akali .

option paralysis11/26/2018, 1:16:59 PM3 votes

i actually havent played against a jax in months.. well thats cuz i ban him every game. why would i wanna play against a tank assasin hybrid dmg champ LOL

Summonah1236911/26/2018, 3:21:21 PM2 votes

The only times I wouldn't complain about him is when he's on my team hard carrying us.

Sire Hippington11/26/2018, 3:16:57 PM2 votes

The issue is less Jax him self(he exists in that state ever since dodge was removed), but the current itemisation and runes help him alot, so i wouldn't really call jim overloaded, as he historically wasn't a big balance issue mostly till conqueror.

The main issue is that conqueror gives him a rather strong early all-in as it works great with his passive, while ensureing that he spikes strong into mid/late even if his oponents gets defensive items which used to help as he can't really itemize for pen. Other than that, we have trinity, which always was his core, in it's strongest itteration atm, we have Titanic hydra which is one of the most busted items that no one talks about, and ER which is used only by very few champs, but those that can abuse it get insane value from it.

Also, with the current state of damage creep, a strong defensive tool on a basic abillity like his W is very powerfull, while what once was an bursty opening from him turns into one-shot potential vs squishys.

MagmusOverlord11/26/2018, 6:35:06 PM2 votes

I feel like with the bounty changes you might be able to punish him for being behind. Jax farms a lot so if you just shit on him early you can still make his late game kind of irrelevant by making yourself bigger off of him. I dunno tho.

Hayaishi211/27/2018, 1:53:47 AM1 votes

I think his issue is CDR, Jax just becomes ridiculous after some CDR.

Violet Fields11/26/2018, 9:11:47 PM1 votes

Tryndamere

Besteal11/26/2018, 3:57:00 PM1 votes

Wait... Dark Harvest. On Irelia? I haven't seen that before. Is it actually so good that she forgoes Conqueror for it?

DoktorKaiser11/27/2018, 2:17:45 PM1 votes

I still sincerely believe that the only reasons Jax is broken are conqueror and the new essence reaver. Without those cancers he can't win early/mid game and thus he can't snowball. As for his late game, he was always intended to be the best late game champion who is can't be 1v1-ed. I just can't see any reason to pick him over Irelia who actually has a broken kit although she also relies heavily on conqueror, but still Irelia has far less counterplay than a Jax early/mid game which is when the games end anyway. Also champions that are busted with conqueror - Yasuo and Darius, I would put them on level with Jax in terms of op-ness.