Can Morg and Zyra be treated as AP during the balance changes and not supports?

La9wa·10/30/2015, 8:32:52 PM·90 votes·3,395 views

since they are mainly... APs? Can you please not force them in different roles bit by bit by every patch? For example how Morgana's damage on W and R was reduced by a lot.

I'm talking about the current balance changes for the preseason during today's PBE update: Supports get: Base Mana Regen Per Second: 1.7 from 1.2 APs get: (+50 base mana and -3 m/lvl) _Base Mana: 384.0 from 334.0 Mana Per Level: 47 from 50 _ Morg and Zyra got the supports one and I think it's very unfair to them when played in sololane... you know, their main role. Especially Morgana, because her damage has been greatly reduced that she has trouble now in midlane against regular APs she was good against and this is making it even worse.

63 Comments

AquariusGine10/30/2015, 10:16:56 PM9 votes

I used to play Zyra mid lane.. I miss her so much.

I don't know why they are forcing her support..

Support suggested items Support in League cinematic Riot's posts on Zyra assume she's a support..

like wtf..

Abyssphere10/30/2015, 8:40:53 PM7 votes

I mean it's not like more mana regen is bad for them. Yes it's what's given to supports but it's still useful for mids regardless. They get more out of Doran's Ring than the people who just got base mana buffs, for example.

Zantumall10/31/2015, 1:06:29 AM7 votes

The problem is that, whether they want to or not, they have to balance around whichever of the two situations will be more potentially abusive. High damage on W and R is good for midlane Morg, for example, but if it's too high baseline we create a problem botlane. In the same vein, increasing Morg's base mana might benefit her mid, but would potentially allow her to cast too many bindings in a short period of time to be good botlane. I don't play much Morg so I can't speak to the exact problems it would create, but just keep in mind that Riot has to be very careful balancing champs like Morg and Zyra because a buff to midlane performance might break botlane, or vice versa. It's not as easy as saying "treat her like a midlaner".

RocketRelm10/30/2015, 10:31:25 PM5 votes

I feel split on this issue. On the one hand, I feel like an extra 0.5 base mana regen is better than 47 base mana at lvl 1 that tapers off as they level. Even in a solo lane, I prefer this compensation buff.

On the other hand, I don't necessarily want future changes/itemization compensations/etc or the balance team to be treating the champions that "Migrated Bot" as "Only Supports". I don't want to reach a position where Morgana for example is "not allowed" mid lane wholesale, which with her Core Item (Zhoynas) being the most kneecapped of ALL the items, and AP being harder to get in general, it would be nice if Migrating Champs got compensated in ways that let them stay Mid, instead of 'forcing' them support.

tl:dr: while I prefer this particular changes, it shows riot treating them as supports and not giving them compensation for the AP itemization changes.

PS: Why does Morgana's W cost 130 Mana does it really need to be that mana intensive?

Mordepool10/30/2015, 8:47:43 PM4 votes

Morgana is not a support. She can but so can brand

SH Azykan10/30/2015, 11:11:40 PM4 votes

I main Morgana top...and tbh I like the mana regen more than higher base mana. I stay in lane for a very long time generally, and the higher regen will help more in the long run. Just my 2 cents.

GankLord10/31/2015, 4:53:23 AM3 votes

Preach brother as a Zyra main since season 3 I've been begging riot to put her back into her proper place as a solo laner but because she's not as popular/flashy as the other champions it falls on deaf ears.

IcyPepper10/30/2015, 8:49:49 PM2 votes

They're mainly supports currently, and I'm guessing Riot wants to keep them there.

shrugs

Nielarken10/31/2015, 7:51:50 AM2 votes

Karma Same with karma they have slapped her with a nerf every time she ask if she can go back to mid lane.

WolfBV10/31/2015, 6:52:16 PM2 votes

I'm fine with it. Normally play Morgana mid and this is still a buff.

BastionKross11/1/2015, 3:48:14 PM2 votes

I don't know about Zyra, but Morg still has a chance of going back to mid lane. It's not a pretty scenario, but Riot isn't about to do anyone any favors without some flashy plays under their belt.

Here's the main thing keeping Morg in the support role: Her black shield hard counters Blitzcrank Leona Thresh . If you've been to bot lane recently, you know those three (plus Morg herself) are the overwhelming majority of supports.

Now, we could wait and see if Riot nerfs those three to be less stifling, but we'd probably have a better chance of pigs flying. So the solution becomes dire: Take Morg's black shield away so she's no longer a counter to those guys. If Morg can no longer counter popular supports she won't be taken botlane as much, and thus not seen as primarily a support. It's not pretty, and it strips Morg of one of her most traditional and defining abilities, but it would certainly almost entirely remove her from botlane.

So it becomes a choice: Keep Morg intact as a support, or make her a midlane mage again. The best case scenario is both, but we can't count on Riot for that.

MudintheWater11/2/2015, 9:04:24 PM1 votes

I'm a Morgana mid main, and I'm super glad we got rhe Mana regen. I even have a post up where I asked for it. The flat Mana that most of the champs are getting is an overall nerf after the changes to the the mastery tree. (no flat mana mastery anymore). Think about it like this: the championa with the mana buff all got mana/level nerfs that eventually make the buff pointless. Additionally, they will only get half a spell out of their buff ...not very useful.

Meanwhile I get 100 mana every 200 seconds, which is a stat I will always use because my mana pool will never be full. Fuck yes. (but overall I still want my pots back.)

The flat mana regen will work out better for us imo.

KingWanahakalugi10/30/2015, 9:23:03 PM1 votes

Morg is my best support, so I'm fine with the change. I only play her mid in a niche pick. As for Zyra, I rarely see her played at all, and I don't play her so I don't have a opinion on her one way or another.

Raptamei10/31/2015, 1:14:45 PM1 votes

Morg and Zyra are supports, sorry to burst your bubble. They may have been designed as mids, but Blitz was designed as a bruiser. All that matters is which role they are best at NOW.