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Riot, reconsider that Lee Sin retune you came up with AND MAKE IT LIVE.

Ezreal Wright·1/20/2015, 2:19:12 PM·184 votes·8,638 views

Here it is if you forgot it Riot.

Flurry • Attack Speed bonus increased to 40/60/80/100% (at levels 1/6/11/16) from 40% at all levels

Sonic Wave • Damage changed to 15/35/55/75/95 (+0.5/0.6/0.7/0.8/0.9 Total AD) from 50/80/110/140/170 (+0.9 Bonus AD)

Resonating Strike • Damage changed to 15/35/55/75/95 (+0.5/0.6/0.7/0.8/0.9 Total AD) from 50/80/110/140/170 (+0.9 Bonus AD) • Now deals up to 50% bonus damage (150% total damage) based on the target’s missing Health instead of 8% of the target’s missing Health

Safeguard • Cost increased to 100 from 50 • Cost is now reduced by 50% if cast on an allied champion (including self)

Tempest • Damage changed to 25/50/75/10/125 (+0.6 total AD) from 60/95/130/165/200 (+1.0 Bonus AD) • Now deals physical damage instead of magic

Dragon’s Rage • Damage changed to 50/150/250 (+0.75/0.875/1.0 Total AD) from 200/400/600 (+2.0 Bonus AD) • For each enemies target collide with would make target take 25/75/125 (+0.375/0.4375/0.5 Total AD) extra damage"

Riot please. It was perfect. Don't listen to these filthy Lee Sin mains. Please apply this retune. I'm so tired of seeing Lee Sins in every single fucking game because he's the perfect jungler everybody wants.

180 Comments

Vauren1/20/2015, 3:46:16 PM63 votes

I thought the whole reason they didn't nerf Lee Sin was because of the overwhelming community backlash against it? And now they are having an overwhelming community push to nerf Lee Sin. If I were in Riot's shoes I'd be confused as heck at the moment.

I'm all for nerfing/tuning him a bit myself though.

Long Dong Wukong1/20/2015, 2:39:47 PM23 votes

A boy can dream, but good luck getting them to nerf Lee Sin. He is the king, others are nerfed to stay beneath him.

Drogmyre1/20/2015, 2:48:52 PM21 votes

If Riot was interested in actually balancing their game they'd do this.

Brotha1/20/2015, 9:28:52 PM11 votes

Those nerfs completely destroyed Lee Sin hence why multiple LCS players spoke out against them. They weren't fair and the only people who wanted them were people who want Lee to be effectively deleted.

If Riot really wanted to balance Lee Sin they would:

Punish Lee for missing his Q. Give it a high energy cost early game with a passive energy refund on the resonate portion if you're resonating to an enemy champion.
Revert the nerfs on his W to allow him to dash around minions. This nerf did nothing to Lee in the jungle but really hurt Top Lee which was never a problem.

Instead completely remove the free spellvamp Lee get's from the 2nd portion of his W. This would hurt Lee's sustain in the jungle making him more susceptible to enemy invades. Also hurts his counter jungling as he will be lower from camps.

Revert Nerf on E, return the attack speed debuff as it was a utility debuff with a short duration. Again, hurt top Lee and didn't touch jungle Lee.
Give Lee Sin's ultimate a meaningful cooldown. The problem with Lee lategame is that his ultimate is ALWAYS up. With 30% cdr his ultimate is a meager 39 seconds. Granted I don't feel it should be a Garen length cooldown but I do not see why such a powerful early game ultimate should not share the same cooldown as an ultimate like Nautilus or Malphite. Lee needs to use his ultimate WISELY not just kick bitches in the chin whenever he wants cause fuck you.

Jefftiffy1/20/2015, 9:00:40 PM8 votes

The problem with this "retune" its a complete damage gut with no compensation. Its not a "retune" you are claiming its readjusting him instead of straight up nerfing him. Lee cannot operate without an early game. Take away the only part of the game he has and it's gg. I mean I can counter jungle him with Gragas at level 2, what's so hard about dealing with him?

Lee Sin is just very flexible he has no strengths outside of early game. If he doesn't snowball he fails. His late game is pretty garbage if you have a normal team comp and your bruisers actually peel him. Making Lee do AS is not only weird, it just doesn't work on bruisers. Bruisers are not DPS, that is what the ADC and mages are for.

Yes this isn't a retune. Average base AD at 18 is 100. So adding in base AD does nothing to make up for the 100ish lost damage and makes him lose the only thing keeping him viable early game. And making his safeguard cost half his energy... just lol. And on top of this gutting his tempest damage and making it magic. All of this for an extra 60% AS at 18 where he has already lost over 400 damage in an average rotation.

Riot threw this away for a reason. It wasn't just a nerf. It was taking Lee from one of the best spots in the game to Urgot tier in one update. I would prefer they stick with the slow steady nerfs than the "NERF CANNON GO" attitude players have.

Dokusei1/20/2015, 3:40:50 PM8 votes

ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ Daily reminder to keep this thread going starts now

Sightless661/20/2015, 8:47:54 PM8 votes

No. Fuck that change. Fuck making the attack speed on his passive the core mechanic of the kit. Fuck removing the insec kick by majorly increasing the energy costs on the jump. Fuck the stupid "you have to kick half their team to make anyone take any damage" mechanic. Fuck the stupid total AD focus and the "smoothing his power curve" generic bullshit it brings. Fuck. That. Kit. It's terrible. It's one of the worst design abominations Riot ever shat out.

Lee Sin needs nerfs, and he's needed them for a while, but he doesn't need his entire playstyle gutted and left to die. We should not argue for Riot to Olaf champions anymore. It's never been a good thing for the game, and killing Lee Sin wouldn't be good either, no matter how much you hate him. We can nerf him without implementing this terrible fucking design. There is no reason to get attached to such a horrible rework proposal when any random Boards member could come up with a better one.

Altricad1/21/2015, 2:38:14 AM7 votes

I hope you're all misunderstanding how total AD works...

At level 1, let's say lee sin has 60 AD ( no bonus AD from masteries), comparing it to when it's based on bonus AD.

Sonic Wave/Resonating Strike ( accounting that lee has 60 AD and doesn't get even a single bonus AD) 15/25/55/75/95( +.5/.6/.7/.8/.9) -> 45/71/97/123/149 ( total overall damage)

Srsly, if you're going to argue that ~16 damage is going to break or make lee sin, then this champion should be disabled right away.

The numbers may seem scary, but this nerf technically makes it so that if lee sin gets 1 kill, he doesn't instagib you with his stupid bonus AD ratios, And that late game, he can ACTUALLY duel someone ( 100% attack speed is goooood)

You know, Zed 's full rotation at level 3 has a bonus ratio of 2.3 Bonus AD. Talon has 2.7 Bonus AD at level 3. Lee on the other hand, has a 2.8 Bonus AD with a 8% missing health execute. Wtf? Plus some of it is magic damage. Which other early game jungler has an AD scaling magic damage?

JarvanIV Khazix Pantheon none of them have an AD scaling magic damage

This reminds me of when people said Khazix 's level 3 damage was stupid and he could easily kill anyone in the jungle. But yeah, Riot decided to smash him with the nerf bat repeatedly. Reason being Kha scales well into late ( which is true), but an HIGH threat early game champion that is UNCATCHABLE needs a compensation.

let's look at Shaco , a champion that either carries or feeds based on his early game. Shaco is as slippery as lee and has enough in his kit to counter jungle, but let's look at Shaco's late. it's pure garbage and people are forced to splitpush with him as he has no usefull cc in teamfights. ANd lee? CC, LOADS of CC, and a teamfight disrupting ulti.

This makes it so that lee becomes one of two things

1 . So, either LeeSin has to fall off, A LOT more, than he currently does i.e Shaco level ( pls don't do dis riot )

gets a smoother transition, so that he doesn't become overbearing with just 1 kill.

Don't get me wrong, LeeSin 's kit is really fun, it's unique and I LOVE his backstory! Even Morello said it, that his kit is totally fine and that his damage is just plain stupid. Morello also said the reason Lee wasn't being nerfed was because of other annoying early game junglers cough Elise cough. Well, now it's Lee's time. This change HAS to go through

I'd rather have Lee go a smoother transition and be much more use in late than have a totally uncontrollable early.

fr15ky2x1/20/2015, 9:11:06 PM5 votes

Bring on the down votes I know I will get them. Lee's balance is fine, he has such a high skill cap to compensate for it; if you miss your q you missed your gank, if you can't string AA in between your abilities you have pretty much wasted his passive. You kick the wrong way and you have just cost your team a kill or got your ADC shredded. Yeah he is very dominate in the early game but outside of that a lot of jungle champs scale better than him. I think it is mostly a mind set people see a lee on the other team and its immediately "gg guys they have lee" and everyone plays like crap. I have seen plenty of lee's get rekt in games. Instead of just nerfing a champ because he beats you try to figure out a way to beat them be creative instead of looking for riot to solve all your problems by gutting a champs kit.

Spacesuit Spiff1/20/2015, 8:17:56 PM4 votes

Lois: Lee Sin is OP crowd cheers Lee Sin crowd cheers Leeeeeeee crowd holds breath Sinnnnn crowd cheers

Sirin Gioro1/20/2015, 9:02:05 PM4 votes

Inb4 every high ELO Lee Sin mains suffer huge LP deficit

+999999999999999

Duchess of Deer1/21/2015, 5:58:03 AM3 votes

No offense i don't play lee sin but these changes are really harsh i personally don't find him that trouble some they juts need to tone down his damage and utility a bit

Metalrichdog1/20/2015, 10:23:02 PM3 votes

I'm not a Lee Sin main, but I can already say that these changes would break the champ pretty badly. Hell, if I were in Riot's position I'd nerf his base damage at higher levels, but keep his lower level base damage pretty much the same. This in turn causes Lee Sin to really rally his early game damage, otherwise he'll become far less useful later in the game. In my opinion, Lee Sin should be an early game jungler, but with his current snowballing power and scalings, he kind of becomes oppressive if he gets a lead or builds largely into damage

lvl 2 lagspike1/21/2015, 1:05:13 AM3 votes

LOL are you serious? You literally GUT every single one of his abilities for a small pathetic buff on his passive? There are much more unbalanced champ in the game right now.

Lee was nerfed so many times, little by little riot keep nerfing him and you ppl still whine about him. He is already sitting at ~45% winrate...

AFK Push1/21/2015, 7:47:00 PM2 votes

I hate lee sin too, but wouldn't this nerf make him unplayable? Sure the ratios are the same but from 200 to 50, 600 to 200, etc. I feel like even his early game would be crap. I understand nerfing late game, but he is supposed to be an early game champ.

Vovix1/22/2015, 2:25:36 AM2 votes

Really? When these planned changes were revealed, everyone complained. Now we're complaining about those changes NOT being implemented?

G0ON1/20/2015, 8:57:39 PM2 votes

Okay, nerf his base movement speed? Its perfectly fine. Everyone wants to nerf Lee because he is optimal for the new jungle. Really annoying how junglers complained about being ganked by lee sin or just common or good junglers in general. That's a junglers job, to gank. Yes its annoying lee sin can gank like a god but isnt it your job to counter pick and maybe pick a laner that's harder to gank such as zed? So before you post about nuking a champion or retunes can you consider a way to stop him... mobility and being able to escape a gank... besides, most lee sins arent very good mechanically.

AshleyTheNeko1/20/2015, 4:30:46 PM2 votes

So you're telling me, Riot thought Lee Sin deserved such huge damage nerfs, yet they let him remain so blatantly overpowered because the community didn't what it?

What

The

Fuck

Isn't the community now begging for him to be nerfed?

The Bard Dog1/21/2015, 6:04:28 AM2 votes

i'm all for nerfing lee sin, but this is just absolutely terrible. this would gut him and put him at urgot tier. his jungle clear? now trash. his ganks? trashier. his ultility in a fight? trash.

Borbland1/21/2015, 3:36:06 PM2 votes

Yes, this changes are great, i just can't imagine why they haven't implant that yet. The ult changes just makes Lee Sin alot more intresting, it's like playing Bowling.

LeeSin : Strike ! New highscore !