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hecarim buffs are going in a bad direction and how to buff hecarim the RIGHT way~~~~~~~~~~

gLw0nB0Rds·1/10/2015, 6:02:55 AM·28 votes·4,601 views

SO I WONT DELVE INTO HOW RIOT GOT TOO "CREATIVE" WITH THE JUNGLE THIS SEASON IN THIS POST, JUST HOW HEC SHOULD BE CHANGED

ooooook i'm going to try to make this shit brief but informative

CURRENT PBE HEC BUFFS:

Rampage (Q) mana cost decreased to 20/23/26/29/32 from 24/26/28/30/32 Spirit of Dread (W) maximum heal from minions and monsters increased to 90/120/150/180/210 from 60/90/120/150/180

WHY THIS IS BAD:

it accentuates lane hecarim further as the dominant position for hec instead of providing buffs for the only assumed intended role

CHANGES TO FIX HEC JUNG AND NOT MAKE LANE HEC BETTER:

Spirit of Dread (W) maximum heal from monsters increased to 110/140/170/200/230 from 60/90/120/150/180 Rampage (Q) mana cost decreased to 20/23/26/29/32 from 24/26/28/30/32 (THIS ONE IS FINE) Rampage (Q) percentage of full damage dealt to monsters increased to 100% from 66%

EXPLANATION:

I DON'T THINK RIOT REALIZES THE EXTENT OF HOW HARD HEC JUNG WAS HIT WITH THE PRESEASON.

UPON SPIRIT STONE REMOVAL, THAT'S ALREADY AN EXTREMELY DETRIMENTAL NERF. TAKE THAT, AND THEN GIVE SUPER STRENGTH TO EVERY INDIVIDUAL CAMP, SO WHENEVER YOU WANT TO CLEAR ONE, YOU END UP REEVALUATING YOUR LIFE.

the incentive behind removing the Q % cap on monsters is the fact that the jungle got brawny. too brawny for pony. whenever hecarim tries to slash his scythe (assuming ur using his good skin) through a monster, the monster eats it for a snack and then hec gets sad because hec does no damage to monsters anymore. by the time he even tickles the monster, his hp is gone. rip.

his jungle ability restrictions need to be removed. they're no longer relevant, the jungle has been entirely redone since 2012 and don't apply well to the new one. (66% of damage dealt to minions, low cap for W on monsters)

the W buffs are self explanatory, buffing lane hec indirectly when ur trying to help jung hec defeats the purpose of buffing jung hec at all.

while the heal buffs seem extensive, they're really not. spirit stone gave hec a chunk of hp every single time he q'd, and that was in the old jungle, where nothing even did damage.

43 Comments

4nth0l0gy1/10/2015, 7:08:13 AM14 votes

just played a hec jungle game, can confirm his q does no significant damage to camps. Hec used to be one of my mains, I can barely jungle him anymore. Camps fucking hurt. item 3070Hecarimitem 3070

LerLaLonde1/10/2015, 6:30:22 AM8 votes

It's pretty tragic what happened to Hec in the jungle, especially since they removed his bread and butter item at the time that they released seismic jungle changes. Buffing his abilities in a way that positively impacts his lane presence is pretty toxic imo. Riot needs to stop turning their ostensibly jungle oriented champions into lane monsters and stop neglecting legacy junglers that are maladaptive to the new jungle.

RekSai

Knight Devout1/10/2015, 9:41:14 AM5 votes

Honestly, I'd rather remove the damage cap toward monsters and keep the damage cap against minions (Q). Splitpushing is really expensive in terms of powerbudgets (Rengar Rework), and this is amplified when the champion is one that could pop in a lane at any time because he's not leaving a lane unattended (Rengar rework again).

As you said, the buffs he's getting are fine, but they aren't focused on jungler Hecarim, they are buff as hecarim as a whole that will make him stronger (slightly stronger) both in lane and in the jungle. I'd rather have full damage against monsters .

my 2 cents.

Painted Celt1/10/2015, 6:20:07 PM4 votes

I want Hecarim to get a movement speed buff... He should definitely have a higher base speed than Free Wi- err.. Lee Sin. Come on...

5G8Nri0B541/10/2015, 7:55:14 AM2 votes

As an overly-gold reliant champion, I'm completely fine with his laning getting a small buff.

The thread pretty much summed up as "screw people who like lane Hecarim, change those buffs to only affect jungle Hecarim because I only jungle with him!"

Tis a nice day1/10/2015, 10:51:51 AM1 votes

As much as Hec could use a buff in jungle, I'm not sure if introducing a champion ability that specifically deals increased damage to monsters and not minions is a good idea.

sNanaya1/10/2015, 1:07:38 PM1 votes

As both a jungler hec and laner hec I find this thread discriminating and offensive

Still, I hate that 66% dmg redux

Knight SoIaire 1/10/2015, 1:29:17 PM1 votes

actualy i dont like the way they made hecarim owerall his entire theme is about a rampaging war horse who kills ppl while his kit in game shows him as a tank who just doesnt die and spam,s trinity force

i would like them to accentuete on hecarim being an offensive not a defensive champion instead of making him a walking trinity force proc because it does more than his abilities

also his passive ... oh god his passive is so wird in terms of what it actualy does, its a totaly inwisible power when it comes to the overall brawling hecarim, but its an actual powerspike when he uses his e

DemiluniS1/10/2015, 6:06:08 PM1 votes

currently hecarim's clear speed is on par with other junglers, buffing damage done to monsters up to 100% will just make him clear it 34% faster than other junglers, and I'm pretty sure that's not what Riot aiming for

AFK Push1/10/2015, 7:15:52 PM1 votes

At least the amount of heal is still capped at 20%, however it will heal for a lot more now. I do agree that his q needs a buff, at least when it comes to monster camps. I think the reason why Riot gave his W a buff is because, sustain works so well in the new jungle. The problem is that W is not his bread and butter skill, and it will make him go oom from spamming it in the early camps. That Q needs to actually do something, instead of being a baton swirl in the camps face.

Slushi Simcambi1/11/2015, 3:01:17 AM1 votes

Agreed.

Hecarim used to be mah main pony and now he is having this weird identity crisis.

HE HAS GREAT LATE STRENGTH THOUGH His ulti can really wreck teamfights!

Regardless, his w needs buffs, it kinda sucks atm and his mana costs make me want to cry.

maikokk1/10/2015, 6:11:26 AM1 votes

sorry but hes actually stronger in the jungle than he ever was, everyone except xin was hit hard in the juungle and hek actually comes out being one of the least maimed imo.

also, riot doesnt balance on intended role. sometimes they balance against what a champ can do to be utterly oppressive in a lane, but no, theres nothing wrong with making laner hek stronger

maikokk1/10/2015, 6:17:23 AM1 votes

if you havnt figured it out yet, pen marks with one crit rune, LS quints 21/0/9 with emphasis on summoner CD in utility.

Kowe The Ewok1/10/2015, 7:53:29 AM1 votes

That however doesn't change the mobility creep he has been suffering off. It's not just his jungling. Rek Sai outclasses him in every way. Hecarim needs his E (and the Cd of his R) tweaked to an appropriate level to compete with the mobility of other champions.

Movementspeed comparison

Alternative suggestion, focussing on movementspeed and jungling power with slight worsening of laning.

Just Mid1/10/2015, 8:35:17 AM1 votes

I think that Master Yi is OP. Like he basically can't be defeated in any situation. Same for Volibear. His bite does like 6k dmg. I'm just waiting for the LCS players to notice that. He's so overpowered in mid.

Lean into it1/10/2015, 10:15:42 AM1 votes

dont see why you would want to play him in the jungle anyway, the position is horribly gold and XP starved, both things hec desperately needs he's god tier in lane if he can farm up good items and levels he will always be second class in the jungle because of how item / gold dependent he is

Messaiga1/11/2015, 4:14:59 AM

I agree completely here. They could definitely remove the reduced damage versus monsters as well as the healing cap as it would help him tremendously without affecting lane Hecarim, and I do like those mana changes as well.