hecarim buffs are going in a bad direction and how to buff hecarim the RIGHT way~~~~~~~~~~

gLw0nB0Rds·Jan 10, 2015·28 votes·4,601 views

SO I WONT DELVE INTO HOW RIOT GOT TOO "CREATIVE" WITH THE JUNGLE THIS SEASON IN THIS POST, JUST HOW HEC SHOULD BE CHANGED

ooooook i'm going to try to make this shit brief but informative

CURRENT PBE HEC BUFFS:

Rampage (Q) mana cost decreased to 20/23/26/29/32 from 24/26/28/30/32 Spirit of Dread (W) maximum heal from minions and monsters increased to 90/120/150/180/210 from 60/90/120/150/180

WHY THIS IS BAD:

it accentuates lane hecarim further as the dominant position for hec instead of providing buffs for the only assumed intended role

CHANGES TO FIX HEC JUNG AND NOT MAKE LANE HEC BETTER:

Spirit of Dread (W) maximum heal from monsters increased to 110/140/170/200/230 from 60/90/120/150/180 Rampage (Q) mana cost decreased to 20/23/26/29/32 from 24/26/28/30/32 (THIS ONE IS FINE) Rampage (Q) percentage of full damage dealt to monsters increased to 100% from 66%

EXPLANATION:

I DON'T THINK RIOT REALIZES THE EXTENT OF HOW HARD HEC JUNG WAS HIT WITH THE PRESEASON.

UPON SPIRIT STONE REMOVAL, THAT'S ALREADY AN EXTREMELY DETRIMENTAL NERF. TAKE THAT, AND THEN GIVE SUPER STRENGTH TO EVERY INDIVIDUAL CAMP, SO WHENEVER YOU WANT TO CLEAR ONE, YOU END UP REEVALUATING YOUR LIFE.

the incentive behind removing the Q % cap on monsters is the fact that the jungle got brawny. too brawny for pony. whenever hecarim tries to slash his scythe (assuming ur using his good skin) through a monster, the monster eats it for a snack and then hec gets sad because hec does no damage to monsters anymore. by the time he even tickles the monster, his hp is gone. rip.

his jungle ability restrictions need to be removed. they're no longer relevant, the jungle has been entirely redone since 2012 and don't apply well to the new one. (66% of damage dealt to minions, low cap for W on monsters)

the W buffs are self explanatory, buffing lane hec indirectly when ur trying to help jung hec defeats the purpose of buffing jung hec at all.

while the heal buffs seem extensive, they're really not. spirit stone gave hec a chunk of hp every single time he q'd, and that was in the old jungle, where nothing even did damage.

43 Comments

4nth0l0gyJan 10, 201514 votes

just played a hec jungle game, can confirm his q does no significant damage to camps. Hec used to be one of my mains, I can barely jungle him anymore. Camps fucking hurt. item 3070 Hecarim

gLw0nB0RdsJan 10, 201510 votes

THX 4 COMMENT AND NICE TEARS item 3073

LerLaLondeJan 10, 20158 votes

It's pretty tragic what happened to Hec in the jungle, especially since they removed his bread and butter item at the time that they released seismic jungle changes. Buffing his abilities in a way that positively impacts his lane presence is pretty toxic imo. Riot needs to stop turning their ostensibly jungle oriented champions into lane monsters and stop neglecting legacy junglers that are maladaptive to the new jungle.

RekSai

4nth0l0gyJan 10, 20153 votes

I really do love Rek'Sai though. Hecarim complaints aside, she's a bunch of fun.

Slushi SimcambiJan 11, 20151 votes

Her early game strength is disgusting.

Knight DevoutJan 10, 20155 votes

Honestly, I'd rather remove the damage cap toward monsters and keep the damage cap against minions (Q). Splitpushing is really expensive in terms of powerbudgets (Rengar Rework), and this is amplified when the champion is one that could pop in a lane at any time because he's not leaving a lane unattended (Rengar rework again).

As you said, the buffs he's getting are fine, but they aren't focused on jungler Hecarim, they are buff as hecarim as a whole that will make him stronger (slightly stronger) both in lane and in the jungle. I'd rather have full damage against monsters .

my 2 cents.

gLw0nB0RdsJan 10, 20155 votes

Honestly, I'd rather remove the damage cap toward monsters and keep the damage cap against minions (Q).

WHICH IS WHAT I SAID IN THE OP IF YOU NOTICED I SAID "MONSTERS" AND NOT "MINION AND MONSTERS"..

THE PROBLEM IS THAT HE SHOULDN'T BE GETTING ANY BUFFS FOR LANING. HES ALREADY GOOD IN LANE. GIVING FREE BUFFS IS BAD.

Knight DevoutJan 10, 20152 votes

Yes. And I'd honestly settle just for that, revert the Q mana cost buffs. I don't want Riot buffing the wrong part, and the NERFING THE PONY TO THE FUCKING GROUND AGAIN.

By the way, I think you tried to say that Reaper was the good skin, while all the cool guys and chicks know that Blood Knight is the one that brings the boys to the yard.

gLw0nB0RdsJan 10, 20152 votes

I AGREE THAT THE MANA COST REDUCTIONS ON Q THE MOST INSIGNIFICANT CHANGE, BUT W NEEDS big BOOFS AND THE Q CHANGE IS A NECESSITY FOR HIM TO JUNGLE

HONESTLY I WOULDNT EVEN CONSIDER THEM BUFFS. ID CONSIDER THEM JUST COMPENSATION FOR HOW HARD THEY CRUSHED HIS DREAMS IN THE PAST 2 MONTHS.

Painted CeltJan 10, 20154 votes

I want Hecarim to get a movement speed buff... He should definitely have a higher base speed than Free Wi- err.. Lee Sin. Come on...

5G8Nri0B54Jan 10, 20152 votes

As an overly-gold reliant champion, I'm completely fine with his laning getting a small buff.

The thread pretty much summed up as "screw people who like lane Hecarim, change those buffs to only affect jungle Hecarim because I only jungle with him!"

gLw0nB0RdsJan 10, 20156 votes

YOURE NOT REALLY COMPREHENDING THE POST CORRECTLY HMMMMMMMMM.

I STATE NOTHING AGAINST LANE HECARIM. THERE IS SIMPLY NO POINT TO MAKE SOMETHING VIABLE MORE VIABLE, ESPECIALLY WHEN THE BUFFS ARE INTENDED TO COMPENSATE FOR HIS BAD JUNGLE, AND NOT THE LANE. LANE HECARIM IS GOOD. BUFFING IT WOULD NOT BE GOOD.

Chromatic EagleJan 11, 20152 votes

Bro we seriously, you don't have to type in caps all the time. Most of us should be able to read your posts.

gLw0nB0RdsJan 12, 20153 votes

THERES NOTHING WRONG WITH CAPS. I LIKE TO TYPE IN CAPS. ITS JUST LETTERS.

maikokkJan 10, 20151 votes

sorry but hes actually stronger in the jungle than he ever was, everyone except xin was hit hard in the juungle and hek actually comes out being one of the least maimed imo.

also, riot doesnt balance on intended role. sometimes they balance against what a champ can do to be utterly oppressive in a lane, but no, theres nothing wrong with making laner hek stronger

gLw0nB0RdsJan 10, 201518 votes

WELL DONE UVE DEFEATED THIS THREAD WITH UR FACTS AND KNOWLEDGE

maikokkJan 10, 20151 votes

YOU BEEN WARNEDJan 10, 20152 votes

give this man the pony he wants, he deserves that pony and his mother.

Just MidJan 10, 20153 votes

{quoted}

sorry but hes actually stronger in the jungle than he ever was, everyone except xin was hit hard in the juungle and hek actually comes out being one of the least maimed imo.

also, riot doesnt balance on intended role. sometimes they balance against what a champ can do to be utterly oppressive in a lane, but no, theres nothing wrong with making laner hek stronger

LOL kys

Xela SyabJan 10, 20152 votes

{quoted}

sorry but hes actually stronger in the jungle than he ever was, everyone except xin was hit hard in the juungle and hek actually comes out being one of the least maimed imo.

also, riot doesnt balance on intended role. sometimes they balance against what a champ can do to be utterly oppressive in a lane, but no, theres nothing wrong with making laner hek stronger

I have not seen 1 hec in this new jungle on any game ever. I've seen more eve than hec and that's bad. I see him top lane and he's fine there, he needs jungle buffs the same way nunu needs lane nerfs.

Champion SkinJan 10, 20151 votes

Lane Nunu is toxic and unfun to play against but it certainly doesn't need nerfs... why? Because Nunu brings so little to teamfights

Xela SyabJan 15, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Champion Skin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kHTsOWUl,comment-id=000000020000,timestamp=2015-01-10T20:20:51.361+0000)

Lane Nunu is toxic and unfun to play against but it certainly doesn't need nerfs... why? Because Nunu brings so little to teamfights

actually nunu can kite for days, gives good ms and as buffs to carries, deals the most base damage of any spell in the game with his ult. I'm just saying that he shouldn't heal up so much with his devour on lane minions, just like a 10% nerf to tune him since other bruisers have had their sustain hit to some extent.

Champion SkinJan 15, 20151 votes

When does Nunu ever get the use of that base damage? If Nunu hit's you with a full channeled ult you probably messed up...

And well being able to kite rarely matters with all these assassins running around and killing people in the blink of an eye

In teamfights lane Nunu is build with durability and he turns it into a utility bot with no hard CC but he can zone pretty well with his ult and his attack speed manipulation is pretty good

If Nunu is built with damage well he rarely get to use that damage unless he somehow lures the enemy team into a full channeled ult

Basically Nunu's items doesn't usually do much come teamfights... the gold/lane farm exp would usually be better spend on another champion though Nunu has a pretty good laning with the sustain from his consume + passive and high damage target ability (though also rather expensive if you can't attack things for passive)

maikokkJan 11, 20151 votes

ive had similar success with him as jungle and in lane. i cant say that for any other junglers. xin is stronger in the jungle, the rest are weaker. the reason being, much like most other junglers these days, the safest way to play is to clear 3 camps, B, get trailblazer, clear 2 more, gank. the difference with him is that he sacrifices nothing for not getting chilling smite. his ganks are always good. most junglers have a hard choice to make. he doesnt.

not to mention, nobody aside rammus can get back to farming faster. so even if you went tank heck and took longer to clear, he still wouldnt need buffs.

all that aside im glad hes getting buffs and im going to abuse him more often now

gLw0nB0RdsJan 12, 20153 votes

MAYBE IN ANOTHER 500 GAMES YOU CAN REACH SILVER 4

maikokkJan 10, 20151 votes

if you havnt figured it out yet, pen marks with one crit rune, LS quints 21/0/9 with emphasis on summoner CD in utility.

gLw0nB0RdsJan 10, 201520 votes

THANKS NOW I CAN BE A HEC GOD TOO

maikokkJan 10, 20151 votes

Kowe The EwokJan 10, 20151 votes

That however doesn't change the mobility creep he has been suffering off. It's not just his jungling. Rek Sai outclasses him in every way. Hecarim needs his E (and the Cd of his R) tweaked to an appropriate level to compete with the mobility of other champions.

Movementspeed comparison

Alternative suggestion, focussing on movementspeed and jungling power with slight worsening of laning.

gLw0nB0RdsJan 10, 20153 votes

I DISAGREE HONESTLY. HIS MOVEMENT SPEED IS PRETTY IRRELEVANT. NOT SURE WHY OUT OF ANYWHERE TO BUFF HECARIM, YOUD MAKE A THREAD ABOUT HIS MS.

REK SAI IS OVERPOWERED. COMPARING ANYONE TO REK SAI IS RIDICULOUS.

Just MidJan 10, 20151 votes

I think that Master Yi is OP. Like he basically can't be defeated in any situation. Same for Volibear. His bite does like 6k dmg. I'm just waiting for the LCS players to notice that. He's so overpowered in mid.

Lean into itJan 10, 20151 votes

dont see why you would want to play him in the jungle anyway, the position is horribly gold and XP starved, both things hec desperately needs he's god tier in lane if he can farm up good items and levels he will always be second class in the jungle because of how item / gold dependent he is

gLw0nB0RdsJan 10, 20152 votes

BECAUSE I LIKE JUNGLE AND HEC IS 1 OF MY FAVORITE CHAMPS. WHY WOULD AN ADC MAIN BE SAD HIS FAVORITE ADC IS ONLY VIABLE IN MID LANE

IF I PLAYED A LOT OF TOP I PROBABLY WOULDN'T BE COMPLAINING.

Tis a nice dayJan 10, 20151 votes

As much as Hec could use a buff in jungle, I'm not sure if introducing a champion ability that specifically deals increased damage to monsters and not minions is a good idea.

sNanayaJan 10, 20151 votes

As both a jungler hec and laner hec I find this thread discriminating and offensive

Still, I hate that 66% dmg redux

Knight SoIaire Jan 10, 20151 votes

actualy i dont like the way they made hecarim owerall his entire theme is about a rampaging war horse who kills ppl while his kit in game shows him as a tank who just doesnt die and spam,s trinity force

i would like them to accentuete on hecarim being an offensive not a defensive champion instead of making him a walking trinity force proc because it does more than his abilities

also his passive ... oh god his passive is so wird in terms of what it actualy does, its a totaly inwisible power when it comes to the overall brawling hecarim, but its an actual powerspike when he uses his e

supes the lostJan 10, 20151 votes

his passive is fun for the occasional "build nothing but move speed" game

DemiluniSJan 10, 20151 votes

currently hecarim's clear speed is on par with other junglers, buffing damage done to monsters up to 100% will just make him clear it 34% faster than other junglers, and I'm pretty sure that's not what Riot aiming for

AFK PushJan 10, 20151 votes

At least the amount of heal is still capped at 20%, however it will heal for a lot more now. I do agree that his q needs a buff, at least when it comes to monster camps. I think the reason why Riot gave his W a buff is because, sustain works so well in the new jungle. The problem is that W is not his bread and butter skill, and it will make him go oom from spamming it in the early camps. That Q needs to actually do something, instead of being a baton swirl in the camps face.

Slushi SimcambiJan 11, 20151 votes

Agreed.

Hecarim used to be mah main pony and now he is having this weird identity crisis.

HE HAS GREAT LATE STRENGTH THOUGH His ulti can really wreck teamfights!

Regardless, his w needs buffs, it kinda sucks atm and his mana costs make me want to cry.

MessaigaJan 11, 2015

I agree completely here. They could definitely remove the reduced damage versus monsters as well as the healing cap as it would help him tremendously without affecting lane Hecarim, and I do like those mana changes as well.