Boards›Gameplay

S grade on a loss is literal 1v9

Dissolution·1/31/2018, 12:04:39 AM·2 votes·617 views

Please do correct me if i'm making an over simplification or im being ignorant to what the grades mean.

But doesnt an S grade necessarily imply that you couldnt have played any better? by the standards of everyone who plays league of legends you played as well as you could have possibly played in that game.

Now doesnt playing as well as you could have possibly played, imply that you were beating the enemy team well enough to secure an S grade? surely if you were losing even by a the slightest margin, an S grade would be impossible given that to play the best you could possibly play, you couldnt be losing, lest youd be impeded and unable to play a 100% game and therefore unable to secure an s grade.

So how is it possible to lose a game and secure an S grade? surely if your team were doing badly, then as has already been previously stated - if there is a player on the team who is securing an s grade - then that team are winning.

i propose the only way it could be possible to lose and get an s grade is if that your team were so bad, that their net contribution to the game was helping the other team which implies that they would be more use to the person securing the s grade by being afk. this is the literal 1v9 (it is in my experience that the 1v9 is typical of these types of loses, where usually if there was at least one other player on the team making a meaningful contribution, defeat would be avoided) , where team mates are so bad that they they are helping the other team and would be better being afk. in this scenario, a player who is outplaying the opposition team sufficiently to secure an s grade can lose when the opposition team are handed a route to victory, even though they are losing, by the team mates of the person who is outplaying them.

its worth pointing out in this scenario, the player is significantly better than the opposition team, but his team are significantly worse than the opposition. it begs the question why would such a miss match of skill ever occur

and this brings us to the crux of the argument, if a player is given a team that are so bad, that it makes it impossible to win, then how can rito pretend that matches are anywhere near balanced - that their match making system actually works?

how can they say. "well you know, the reason why you lose your games is because you didnt play well enough, learn from your mistakes and youl start climbing", when they are literally handed impossible matches, where ritos own system is telling them that they played as well as anyone could have possibly played.

its worth mentioning something about the frequency of these games. if they were a rarity, maybe once a season, this could be ignored as an anomaly in the match making and / or rating system. but it happens all too frequently, as i am typing, of the 4 games i played tonight, i lost 3, won 1 and scored s grades in 3 of them - 2 out of 4 of my games were s grade loses. last season i even had an s grade annie defeat where i did over 100k damage, i was getting on for double the damage of the next person inb4: damage isnt everything. i know, but it counts for something

feel free to pick apart my reasoning, please share experiences.

23 Comments

AdeBug1/31/2018, 12:11:53 AM3 votes

u can be the best <instert champ here> and still lose if u have a bad team comp, or don't secure objectives, or have an afk/ troll/inter having greater influence than a carry, etc. it's S grade on THAT CHAMP, not on your life performance for that particular game. and they still haven't adapted the stats on each champ to account for the length of the game. Shorter games give you less chances for an S :(

Sona Ping1/31/2018, 1:42:04 AM2 votes

{quoted}

Please do correct me if i&#039;m making an over simplification or im being ignorant to what the grades mean.

Sure.

But doesnt an S grade necessarily imply that you couldnt have played any better?

No, it does not necessarily imply that. And implications are greatly superseded by the the actual functionality. An S grade means that the number's resulting from the game are better than that of your peers. That's all. This means that the following "by the standards of everyone who plays league of legends you played as well as you could have possibly played in that game." does not necessitate that and the idea is not true, a person could have played better in that game. Mastery Grades are not, are not intended be, and cannot be used as a reliable measure of a player's skill; they are intended to be for fun, an additional activity for players to enjoyably engage with. They are not in actuality a measure of player skill.

As Step 1. in this is not true, all of the following ideas and your proposal that are drawn from it:

Now doesnt playing as well as you could have possibly played, imply that you were beating the enemy team well enough to secure an S grade? surely if you were losing even by a the slightest margin, an S grade would be impossible given that to play the best you could possibly play, you couldnt be losing, lest youd be impeded and unable to play a 100% game and therefore unable to secure an s grade.

So how is it possible to lose a game and secure an S grade? surely if your team were doing badly, then as has already been previously stated - if there is a player on the team who is securing an s grade - then that team are winning.

i propose the only way it could be possible to lose and get an s grade is if that your team were so bad, that their net contribution to the game was helping the other team which implies that they would be more use to the person securing the s grade by being afk. this is the literal 1v9 (it is in my experience that the 1v9 is typical of these types of loses, where usually if there was at least one other player on the team making a meaningful contribution, defeat would be avoided) , where team mates are so bad that they they are helping the other team and would be better being afk. in this scenario, a player who is outplaying the opposition team sufficiently to secure an s grade can lose when the opposition team are handed a route to victory, even though they are losing, by the team mates of the person who is outplaying them.

its worth pointing out in this scenario, the player is significantly better than the opposition team, but his team are significantly worse than the opposition. it begs the question why would such a miss match of skill ever occur

and this brings us to the crux of the argument, if a player is given a team that are so bad, that it makes it impossible to win, then how can rito pretend that matches are anywhere near balanced - that their match making system actually works?

how can they say. &quot;well you know, the reason why you lose your games is because you didnt play well enough, learn from your mistakes and youl start climbing&quot;, when they are literally handed impossible matches, where ritos own system is telling them that they played as well as anyone could have possibly played.

its worth mentioning something about the frequency of these games. if they were a rarity, maybe once a season, this could be ignored as an anomaly in the match making and / or rating system. but it happens all too frequently, as i am typing, of the 4 games i played tonight, i lost 3, won 1 and scored s grades in 3 of them - 2 out of 4 of my games were s grade loses. last season i even had an s grade annie defeat where i did over 100k damage, i was getting on for double the damage of the next person inb4: damage isnt everything. i know, but it counts for something

feel free to pick apart my reasoning, please share experiences.

are disqualified because they are based upon a falsehood.

"i propose the only way it could be possible to lose and get an s grade is if that your team were so bad, that their net contribution to the game was helping the other team which implies that they would be more use to the person securing the s grade by being afk. this is the literal 1v9 "

{quoted}

TLDR; rito, either admit that you are giving us games that are impossible to win, or stop telling us after a defeat that we couldnt have played any better when you tell us that losing is because we are bad.

Those three statements are all false. The S grade does not mean that you were given an impossible game, it's unrelated; what happened is that a game was made and at least one team failed in their play.

RenownedWheat421/31/2018, 12:20:10 AM2 votes

I can get an S on a losing team if I play GP and afk farm all day, and just kill anyone who comes to my lane. I can ignore my team and contribute nothing to team fights but splitpush and farm literally the entire time, with a nice lookin' KDA and CS, and that's all I'll need to get that S. It DOES NOT mean that you've played to the absolute best of your ability, it just means that you've played well according to algorithms that measure the standard, measurable things.

There are things that can't be measured with the algorithm, like shot-calling. Getting your team to organize can win the game. I've had players go C+ in some of my games but they were the only reason I'd ever say we won, because they kept us focused on things that actually mattered and got us to win the game.

Dissolution1/31/2018, 12:15:15 AM2 votes

TLDR; rito, either admit that you are giving us games that are impossible to win, or stop telling us after a defeat that we couldnt have played any better when you tell us that losing is because we are bad.

GreenHydralisk1/31/2018, 8:07:52 PM1 votes

If you don't use your advantage to help other lanes get ahead it's useless. The S grade is heavily influenced by your CS. You could be afk farming the whole game thus losing the game for your team. Instead try grouping with your team or pressuring objectives

Der Lindwurm2/4/2018, 9:47:57 PM1 votes

LP gain/loss has to start depending somehow on your own performance. It's just too ridiculous when it doesn't. It should be a running joke that they actually use an Elo system for a team game.

Xeref1/31/2018, 12:19:52 AM1 votes

This can happen when the losing S rank picks an early comp and destroys the enemy winning team all game but does not know how to focus objective and to push to win. Then the losing S grade lets the game go on for too long and the other team has a comp that will out scale them and 1 bad team fight 45 minutes in and BAM losing S grade.
I have had a good handful of games were I get S as support or top and lose. A few as adc. But this is a team game that require everyone to play together for the most part and if you are winning you need to push your advantages. Look at TSM, they lose early every game because they know they can out micro manage late game or they pick scaling comps. Doesn't always work.... but they try it a lot. I do agree and have said it many times that match making is a troll fest of luck, and its -50% when you enter promos, but Riot stands by their BLIND belief that its as fair as can be.

MagicFlyingLlama1/31/2018, 12:29:01 AM1 votes

You can play better than an S+, S+ just means you are in the top X percent of X players in X ELO and X lane. You cant really go higher in grade, but S is a range.

Someone getting an S+ in bronze is nowhere near good at their champion compared to someone getting an S+ in the same conditions in gold or plat.

Vad Nova1/31/2018, 7:43:53 PM1 votes

you can get an S and play better. I dont know the whole metric, but I know good cs has alot to do with it, then whatever other random things. I've gone like 7-5-9 and had some real high cs and gotten an S before, and I sure as shit could have probably played better